Fan Games and copyrights

[woodz]

I know a few of you guys have done fan games based on BBC TV programs, Red Dwarf and Dr Who spring to mind,  i was wondering if anyone has actually approached the owners for permission, who actually is the owner? is it the writer or the channel who showed it?
Whats the worst that could happen to a lone game developer if they ran into trouble?
Has anyone managed to get permission from a company like the BBC?

i know i but a pimple on the bum of the world of games making, but I'd hate to think X amount of years work, could be squashed by sh*t loads of technicalities

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Most of the time the publishers/agents behind the product just say no right up front.  The originators of the ideas, however, often will say yes.  In my experience if you want to make a fan game just make it and don't publicize anything until it's done.  Once the game is out there there really isn't anything they can do about it aside from be upset that the franchise they're doing nothing with has a fan game.

[Medical Waste]

I'm pretty sure they can make you take down the game as well.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

The internet is a very big virtual place .

[woodz]

The game is based on the "Young Ones" from 1982 to 84, apart from the title and character names, i'm using nothing from the show, new music, voice actor, and 2D art, the game starts where the series ends.. the consensus by everyone i've asked is to just do it, by time and IF anyone noticed it'll had its moment anyway, like  ProgZmax said its a big virtual world, i might get shut down but its already out there

i might have a go at doing it above board, its just who to ask lol

[Fleshstalker]

I say screw it and do it if you want. What's the worst that can happen to you anyways? It's not like they will will put you in jail or fine you unless your a big game company. I sure wished someone would make an AGS game based on "The X-Files". LOL

That would so rule playing as both Muller and Scully. I would like one focused on the fiji mermaid episode with a comical tone put inand the 3 Lonegunmen. Also, a serious one with aliens and the Smoking Man.

I can already see a puzzle at the start with Mulder finding tape and a working lightbulb to signal that X guy.

[KC]

If you aren't making money off it or hindering the money they are making they really can't sue for anything.   It would hardly be worth it on their part.

[woodz]

its not going to make money, not that i couldn't use it!
in 5 years its the first time I've had a game idea, thats had a start, middle and an end, and achievable...
I've thought about clones of the X Files, Supernatural etc, but could never string the ideas together to make a game, but tongue in cheek, slightly vulgar humor comes almost natural lol

[Zaidyer]

The copyright holder always has a legal right to shut you down, but they usually choose to let it slide as long as you're not profiting by it.

This, however, does not preclude the possibility that your web host will shut you down on their behalf, fearing legal action. And if you happen to have enemies, it's possible for them to take you out by pretending to send a cease and desist order.
The best way to go about a fan project is to keep it under wraps until it's ready.

[woodz]

thanks Zaidyer, i actually hadn't thought about them threatening my web host.. that wouldn't be good.. i don't think i have any enermy's , you never know tho :
thanks for all the input up to now, its much appreciated

[Dan_N]

Yes, if you're not profiting from it, and are making a game just for the hell of it, chances are you're not going to get shut down, except by big bastard companies like LucasArts...

And especially if you're making a new storyline, new art, voices etc. they should have only 25% of a case .

And don't forget to state who actually made the original tv series, and who holds the copyright.

And no, I didn't approach the BBC or Rob Grant or Doug Naylor for permission 'cos I'm 90% sure they would've said no, especially since Doug Naylor is striving to get funds for a movie version of Red Dwarf.

(Side Note: These questions regarding fan games and copyrights have been asked many times, maybe there should be made a single sticky thread that approaches this problem, or something similar...)

[Radiant]

The copyright holder always has a legal right to shut you down, but they usually choose to let it slide as long as you're not profiting by it.

That's not actually true. They usually choose to let it slide as long as they don't notice it.

One of the reasons is trademark dilution. Another is that lawyers just aren't nice people.

Case in point - there's this AGS game called Garfield and the Attack of the Mutant Lasagna (which incidentally catches the atmosphere of those comic books far better than the two live-action movies). The author told the studio about the game after it was complete, and was given a Cease & Desist order in reaction. Note that most webhosts will comply with such out of principle, without being "threatened".

And especially if you're making a new storyline, new art, voices etc. they should have only 25% of a case

No, they still have 100% of a case because you're still using the "characters and distinctive likenesses", thus infringing copyright. Besides, given the way the American legal system works, they'd win even if they didn't have a case, because they can afford more lawyers.


But yeah, if you stay under the radar you'll get away with it. Another thing you can do is simply use the genre, not the characters. If you want it to be about clones of the X-files, well, they don't own copyright to supernatural situations, or the concept of some FBI investigator.

[Nikolas]

The problem simply applies. It is illegal. End of story. The truth of the thing is that unless you go making big noise about it, nobody will care. If they find out, they will stop you.

The truth of the thing, also is, that copyrighted material, once copied, is hurtful in everyway, cause you lose control. Garfield and the lasange game. Nobody was making profit, and it was an excellent game, as it seems. however this could be the first of many to follow, and if they wanted to do something with Garfield (as they did the movies), then the game could be in the way, since marketing wise a movie asks also for a game and then YES there is confusion.

See?

nothing is innocent enough!

Names and ideas are not really copyrighted. Plus there is the parody side of things which is always legal.

EIther way, very little games have gathered enough attention to be shut down, and that is usually the case when the creator calls to ask for permition...

[Tartalo]

In this copyrights issue you can find extremely different attitudes, from Japanese Comic makers tolerance that has allowed a whole sub genre of "non official" stories to LucasArts getting horny by killing Fan projects.

BBC has a quite progressive attitude, they are a public TV so they try to act in consequence and release some of their material with licenses that allow free distribution. What they have released freely is not much, but they are pioneers in this.

On the other hand, among the free things they distribute there is the (oficial) remake of "Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" IF:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hitchhikers/game.shtml

So, I don't imagine BBC prosecuting a Fan game about the Young ones.

Who wants to play that game for sure is me!

Tartalo

[woodz]

I've got the actual address to contact .. but its a letter/mail job which intern would give them a name and address if they said "no" and i still went on with the project.


@ Dan_N_GameZ i haven't seen *the End" for years and Christ mate, you've got it damn close, maybe to close,  what i intend to do is more or less the character's saying their names and the same characteristics, mannerisms and same references to past story lines and maybe some of the cut scenes they did in the shows

anyway its  long way off, i may risk direct contact armed with story boards or a quick demo, if they say "no way", i can go the parody route or rework the story to fit something else

@ Tartalo the Japanese are pretty cool, i know with the motorcycle industry they are very tolerant, but they seem to realize any publicity works in their favour, but Harley Davidson have the name so heavily copyrighted technically you couldn't call your child "Harley"

[Tartalo]

Harley Davidson have the name so heavily copyrighted technically you couldn't call your child "Harley"

And those with the Harley logo tatooed in the ass are paying a lot in fees.

[Radiant]

Names and ideas are not really copyrighted. Plus there is the parody side of things which is always legal.

Except possibly in the US, because they can afford a better lawyer. Sad but true.

I've got the actual address to contact .. but its a letter/mail job which intern would give them a name and address if they said "no" and i still went on with the project.

They will say no.

Harley Davidson have the name so heavily copyrighted technically you couldn't call your child "Harley"

That's not copyright, that's a trademark. Fundamental difference.

[Dan_N]

@ Dan_N_GameZ i haven't seen *the End" for years and Christ mate, you've got it damn close, maybe to close,  what i intend to do is more or less the character's saying their names and the same characteristics, mannerisms and same references to past story lines and maybe some of the cut scenes they did in the shows

Well, yeah, actually, only the generator-related bits are actually mine, the rest i ripped from "The End", but I did that just in the demo, to try it out. Hopefully, since I've now got FSi on board for story, design, and comedy, everything will be different and I'll only use the basic ideeas of Red Dwarf, but that's another story.

[Nikolas]

Names and ideas are not really copyrighted. Plus there is the parody side of things which is always legal.

Except possibly in the US, because they can afford a better lawyer. Sad but true.

I will comment on this a bit further:

Ideas cannot be copyrighted! They can certainly be patended but that is something completly different.

Example: There is one and only mickey mouse! There could be millions of anthropomorphic, talking and walking mice around. The idea of a anthropomorphic mouse has no problem, the name has!

Names can be slightly abused becuase of the parody clause, where in the US there is huge tolerance actually.

Mickey mouse is copyrighted. Mik mouse is not. Mic Jagger, or whatever simmilar can be toyed with harmelssly in general. Unless you plan on having a hardcore with Mic and Mickey, which is not the best idea!

Well, if I ever get in the US courts for something, against huge lawyers or something, I'll declare bankrupsy and enjoy every minute of it. Then transfer all the money to my wife/son/aunt/sister/whatever and be safe and happy! or something... I don't own a house, the car they can have it it's a 1995 (!) Vauxhall! :p

hihi

Thing is not to get over protected or nuts.

What Radiant says it's true, but I doubt any company will apply the 1,000,000$ per minute lawyers for you or me.

[Tartalo]

All this reminds me a case

You might know that Sevilla, in Spain, is famous for the religious celebrations in "Semana Santa", with all the "cofradias" (these brotherhoods that look like KKK) moving  the saints around the city and hordes of tourist's taking pictures.

Not every Sevillian is happy when these days come, and a guy made "Matanza Cofrade" a free shooter where you had to kill catholic zombies

A rock band said they were going to include it in their next CD, and so the game arrived to the brotherhoods ears who didn't like it too much, so one of the brotherhoods sued the guy, because the game harmed religious feelings and ... and he had used their "logos" without permission. Muaa ha ha ha ! I guess they realized that going against freedom of speech was more difficult than claiming private property.

The guy was released without charges after he said something like "Oops, I'm sorry".

Well, at the end the brotherhoods won something but lost a lot, the game was not included in the CD but it became an underground classic, it was mentioned in news and forums, and many people mirrored it for a time even if it wasn't any good game. Some time later an anonymous user released a sequel through edonkey "Matanza Cofrade 2" with the Pope as big baddie.

correction
It wasn't the logos.The game used real pictures of those walking saints, and in Spain these images are industrial (sic) property of The Church. If you want a brand like "San Miguel" you pay to the church too. It's for the poors.