An idea for AGS Awards 2013

CaptainD · Thu 28/03/2013 11:03:44

Not wishing to make the jobs of those organising this even more arduous than it already must be, but...

What if we had separate awards for Best Commercial AGS Game and Best Freeware AGS Game?

With an increasing number of games going commercial, it seems fitting that we would consider splitting the prestigious Best Game award into two. (Yeah I know The Journey Down won it as a freeware game... but still!)

NickyNyce · Thu 28/03/2013 11:24:57

I do agree. It would be nice to see freeware and commercial games have their seperate categories.

Releasing freeware so the public can play games for free is an award in itself if you ask me.

miguel · Thu 28/03/2013 11:39:21

Totally agree with you guys.
I think that although the AGS Engine is building a solid name thanks to those magnificent commercial titles, the freeware games are the roots of this community and in most cases a one-man-does-it-all thing.
Separate awards would even the balance, in my opinion.

AGA · Thu 28/03/2013 11:51:40

Makes sense to me. That way Vince Twelve's next game might not win every single award!

Not that it didn't deserve the awards of course, but a high quality commercial offering shouldn't necessarily be graded the same way as a high quality freeware one.

Intense Degree · Thu 28/03/2013 12:04:44

I agree with all above and I think there are now enough commercial AGS games each year to justify it.

Stupot · Thu 28/03/2013 12:15:37

I do think every award ceremony needs its one big Best-in-Show award. The Oscars has 'Best Picture', the Grammys has 'Record of the Year', so I think it doesn't hurt to have one main 'Best AGS Game', commercial or otherwise. Then why not have 'Best Freeware AGS Game' as the secondary (but equally prestigious) title?

arj0n · Thu 28/03/2013 12:30:57

Quote from: CaptainD on Thu 28/03/2013 11:03:44
What if we had separate awards for Best Commercial AGS Game and Best Freeware AGS Game?

I was thinking the same. Good point.

DoorKnobHandle · Thu 28/03/2013 13:30:20

I was saying the same thing on my stream recently, 100% agreed.

Andail · Thu 28/03/2013 13:58:17

I agree. Makes a lot sense. It's a good way to reward people who choose not to demand money for their product.

I think a few of the other awards may, in return, be up for removal. Alternatively, we implement a jury of some sort. The way one game tends to get virtually all the awards is a bit unfortunate. Not saying Resonance didn't deserve all its awards this time, but there's certainly a trend. A jury could be involved either in the nomination phase, or the final voting.

Radiant · Thu 28/03/2013 13:58:44

I'm curious to see some data on this. Could somebody make a list of all games nominated for the last three years, and point out how many of them are commercial? Are all or most of the winning games actually commercial games?

bicilotti · Thu 28/03/2013 14:13:08

Strongly oppose.

I seems to me that this is a reaction to Resonance scooping the loot. Having a paid team might give you an advantage in some techical categores (such as best animations, best character art, best backgrounds, etc.) but other than that, commercial and freeware games compete on the same turf.
Resonance won Game, Gameplay, Dialogue, Puzzles and Gameplay because it was developed with love, blood, sweat & tears for five long years by a talented and dedicated individual.
This exceptional result was, well, exceptional! I don't think we will face something like that in the next five years.

More in general, I am against introducing new awards; on the contrary, I would axe a few of them!
The awards are (or should be) a very important showcase for AGS, of its community, of what it can do as a piece of software. The best stuff, period.
Too many awards and we are diluting the importance of them. This year we had 19 awards: do we really need Best SFX? or a plethora of technical awards? Or one award for best Puzzles and another one for best Gameplay? Or even Best Non Adventure? Do we really need one award more?
Compare our categories with the IGF awards: they have 9 categories, with many many many more games competing!

To sum up: I am against inflating the awards

interesting sidenote: few years ago people were willing to introduce "Best Commercial Game", to kind of 'protect' those games (sort of an 'affirmative action'); it was probably thought that, as commercial productions, few people played them. Searching I found this, but I recall another, more elaborate proposal.

Oh, and than you CaptainD for starting this thread: I usually try to push a 'AGS Awards discussion' around October/November, but it's not that they have been extremely crowded

edit: grammar fixing

Stupot · Thu 28/03/2013 14:22:34

You make some good points Bici. I do disagree on one thing, though it's not wholly related to the OP. I think the Non-Adventure category is very important. You said yourself that the Awards are a showcase, and I think the award is a good way to show off the versatility of AGS.

CaptainD · Thu 28/03/2013 14:38:56

I would just like to point out that my post was not a knee-jerk reaction to Resonance! I loved Resonance and, whilst it was a shame for other games that they didn't get a look-in, I wouldn't say that Resonance won any categories that it did not deserve to win.

My idea was more a combination of two things...

- whilst I have been playing AGS games for probably more than a decade now, it's only the last 3 years that I've nominated and voted, and this year's was the first time I've actually attended the awards ceremony. I wouldn't have thought of this or put forward the idea before simply because I was (shamefully) pretty much unaware of the whole AGS awards thing.
- mainly it was a reflection of the fact that the number of AGS-made games that people are selling has increased considerably; the indie adventure game market (inside and outside the AGS community) has reached a maturity it could not have dreamt of a few years ago.

But anyway, just an idea!

@bicilotti - thanks for the thanks! Again this is more a reflection of me being aware of and interested in the awards now (at long last...

)

Intense Degree · Thu 28/03/2013 14:49:54

I'm not sure it's fair to characterise it as a reaction to Resonance winning lots of awards. I'm sure everyone here would agree it thoroughly deserved them and it is right that commercial games like that (Gemini Rue, Cat Lady, Journey Down etc.) are showcased and recognised by the community also.

I also don't think it's right to judge freeware and commercial games on the same turf. If we did so then, with respect to all concerned, there would not be many freeware games here that anyone got that excited about. For instance, I happily consider many freeware games made here as excellent, and a lot more as very good, but if I'd had to pay money for them I would likely view them differently. Only my own perspective obviously.

Furthermore, I feel that it should be the case that a commercial game is better than a freeware game, otherwise why is the creator charging/not charging for it?

Personally I would like to see the honours shared and both types of game rewarded in separate categories of some kind. I'm not saying that Blackwell Epiphany or Resonance 2 etc. wouldn't deserve to clean up at a future award ceremony, but it would be nice to see non commercial games recognised alongside them in one or more specific category.

selmiak · Thu 28/03/2013 15:07:50

Quote from: Stupot+ on Thu 28/03/2013 12:15:37
I do think every award ceremony needs its one big Best-in-Show award. The Oscars has 'Best Picture', the Grammys has 'Record of the Year', so I think it doesn't hurt to have one main 'Best AGS Game', commercial or otherwise. Then why not have 'Best Freeware AGS Game' as the secondary (but equally prestigious) title?

That would imply that freeware games have non chance against commercial titles. And if a freeware game wins boths the best game and best freeware we have the same situation.
The (my) solution would be to either have best game, best freeware game and best commercial game, which would mean 2 more new awards or have both, best freeware and best commercial game, and whichever game gets more votes earns the best game of the year and the best freeware/commercial title is just deleted (or included if this sounds better). Or have indeed three categories best game, best freeware, best commercial and then decide by the votes and if best game of the year wins also best freeware or best commercial game this is just taken away (or included) (considering the very slim possibility of something completely different winning best game of the year and none of the best freeware/commercial because of whatever).

Crimson Wizard · Thu 28/03/2013 15:11:14

Doesn't community have "Pick of the Month" awards?

I think it's a fair way to make a note of amateur games.
This way you may award as much as 12 games per year!

Vince Twelve · Thu 28/03/2013 15:25:22

Haha. "Not to say Resonance didn't deserve those awards, but..." I feel like the mafia or something. I'm going to break your legs if you suggest I didn't deserve all those awards!

We can discuss the suggestions in this thread on their merits without worrying about my feelings, you guys!

I don't know if Commercial vs Freeware is the solution, but I do agree that having one game sweep the awards makes it less fun. (It also makes the winner not know how to address that without sounding like a dick. So, sorry if I sound like a... well... dick.)

I like the jury idea (either in the nominations or final voting phase) and it might work as long as the jury is diverse enough and really dedicated to playing all the games. I remember this being suggested several years ago as well and supporting it.

The awards should be fun, first and foremost though, and having a jury might make it less fun for those not on the jury. But still, just voting for one title across the board en masse is less fun.

Edit: Besides, we have to change the rules now so that Resonance will forever remain the winningest AGS game of all time.

Ponch · Thu 28/03/2013 15:30:21

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Thu 28/03/2013 15:25:22
How can I possibly be expected to hold all these trophies?!?

You make a good point, Mr. XII.

Vince Twelve · Thu 28/03/2013 15:37:36

I couldn't even photoshop in all the trophies BECAUSE MY HANDS WERE FULL OF TROPHIES!

Edit: Avatar updated.

Ponch · Thu 28/03/2013 15:44:00

Too many trophies! Goodness, yours is such a tale of woe, Mr. XII. I can only count my lucky stars that I've never known the burden of the AGS Award... never... not once... not after ten years and more than twenty AGS games... sigh... lucky me...

EDIT: Nice avatar. I shall have to update mine now...