Help with portrait

[Lasca]

So, I'm not very used to doing portraits, and the angle of this head is giving me some problems. I'd be happy to get suggestions on how to improve the structure of the face; the placement of the eyes, size of them, the construction of the lips, the angle of the nose, the overall structure of the head. Is there too much forehead? To little?
Anyway, this is still in the early stages, so my focus right now is making her look less punched in the face
Actually the thing I've found the hardest is to construct her eyes in this angle.
So please, give me all you got



edit 14:39

ok so already made an edit of my own:

[Andail]

Hello Lasca,
I think your portrait looks mostly fine, in terms of anatomy, proportions and perspective. Shadows and highlights are mostly correct, in regards of those same criteria.
The only adjustments I'd make would be to soften her nose a bit (women tend to have a more curved nasal ridge).

It also strikes me as a typical exercise portrait, in the sense that it's rather plain and generic. If you want to make a more dynamic, interesting portrait we can discuss that too!

[Lasca]

The only adjustments I'd make would be to soften her nose a bit (women tend to have a more curved nasal ridge).

The nose does look a little dull, so I'll definitely take a look at it. Thanks!

It also strikes me as a typical exercise portrait, in the sense that it's rather plain and generic. If you want to make a more dynamic, interesting portrait we can discuss that too!

Well dynamic and interesting does sound more fun than plain and generic, so please do!
In what sense do you experience it as plain? Expression and form? Or do you mean colour and light? I am planning to put a backlight on her, but I wanted to be sure on the construction before going into polish.

[Andail]

I couldn't really tell if your face is supposed to be old, or if it was sloppy brush work that made her skin look a little aged...

Anyhow, based on the presumption that she's supposed to be fairly young, here's a start:


I find that many beginners tend to use various brushes and let the strokes be visible even though there's no real plan or thought behind the brush work. If you want to have visible brush strokes, go for a specific brush and a certain width and stick to that; there's a reason we didn't see brush strokes until the 19th century's impressionism - it's simply very hard to do it right. In the meantime, go for soft, smooth brushes.

I probably went a bit too far with this edit, but it's hard to stop painting once you've started!

Please ask if there's anything you wonder about, I might return later to explain a few things.

[Snarky]

there's a reason we didn't see brush strokes until the 19th century's impressionism

Kind of an off-topic quibble, but that's just not true. While faces in paintings from the Renaissance and later often look a bit airbrushed, you can distinctly make out very expressive brush work in many portrait paintings and faces by Rembrandt, Goya, Delacroix, El Greco, Frans Hals and others who predate the impressionists by a comfortable margin. And in backgrounds and landscape painting (e.g. Constable, Turner), visible brush strokes were more the rule than the exception. Of course, these artists were geniuses, and often the best examples of hard, rough brush strokes are from their later works, so they're a daunting precedent.

[Grok]

Going from your edited picture I've moved nose and mouth a bit to the right and done some small reshaping of eyes, eyebrows and mouth with a smear tool. And some general smoothing of checks and brow.

[Lasca]

@Andail

Thanks for doing the edit! I will definitely be going for a "smoother" texture when I'm doing a later rendering. Perhaps it wasn't clear enough that this is still a sketch, which is the explanation for the "sloppy brush work". I usually prefer to build the shape before rendering more vivid light and shadow, and adding details. Perhaps this is a more time consuming approach, but for me it makes me more comfortable, since I have to use less imagination But I can assure you I have more plans for this. I don not intend to let the background show through her forehead

go for a specific brush and a certain width and stick to that

This is one at 98% the same brush, although sometimes turned, and width adjusted by tablet pressure. I would also argue there there is plan and thought behind the brushwork, however that doesn't insure that it shines through

@Grok
Thanks for the paintover! Moving the mouth and nose a bit more is probably a good idea!

[miguel]

I'm with Snarky on this, Andail's version looks...pretty, there's no texture and that's what happens when you use one single brush to cover all of the face, it's like she has cosmetics applied. Try to "sculp" with your brushes very loosely at first and find the tones you want early on, specially when there's a clear light direction onto her. She's a woman and her chin, lips and well all of the mouth section must be revitalized really, it's dull and not interesting.

[Monsieur OUXX]

The original drawings look like she's 35 or 40. Andail's edit makes her look like she is between 20 and 30.

[Andail]

Snarky, you're absolutely right!
I threw that comment out very carelessly, and as you say, artists have painted with clearly visible brush strokes before the 19th century. My point was, either way, that doing so requires a lot from your painting technique.

Not that it matters a lot, since Lasca's picture was more of a sketch than a finished painting anyways...

And now that I look back at my own edit I don't really think it's a very good paint-over, so I don't know what I'm doing here, frankly

I'll come back with a better edit at one point!

[Lasca]

@Andail: Well, you made me realise that I will probably need to add more warmth and saturation then I had planned, and that I have to be aware of what age she's turning out. So I'd say you were very much helpful!

[Eric]

Actually the thing I've found the hardest is to construct her eyes in this angle.

Eyes in three quarter are in perspective! Draw perspective lines from the front-most eye and it'll be easier.

[Lasca]

Eyes in three quarter are in perspective! Draw perspective lines from the front-most eye and it'll be easier.

Interesting! However get it to a 100 percent. Do you think you could demonstrate the lines on the portrait?

[SilverSpook]

Looks great to me!

Kind of tangential but possibly relevant: try bumping up the contrast a bit, or just pretend a fifty watt bulb materialized somewhere, unless you're going for the shadowy look.  I like to think about the "drama chakras" (eye corners, uni-brow area, lip corners), and in terms of where light is hitting, and try to convey the character first through these key points.  If you get that flippant smirk or the smoky bemused eyes right, I find the rest of the face just kind of paints itself, it just clicks like Lego.  And really, if you get the character across, the mid-highlight on the zygomatic bone or the exact position/size of the upper lip matter not so much.  If I get stuck, I go Google-fu Bruce Willis and get the three-quarter smile, or Michelle Rodriguez' tuff-chick glower for reference.  They'll also help with the proportion problems.

But again, I find when my paintings start feeling like the visual equivalent of stale oatmeal and I want to fly the Wacom out the window, just jazzing up the spectral width, or even running a "sharpen" filter over it tends to spice things up and make details pop. 

[Lasca]

@SilverSpook

Thanks spook, and you're absolutely right. I need to put less focus on making it "right" and more on making it expressive. Thanks for the reminder!

[Lasca]

Ok. Here's where I am with this now:



Still haven't really started working on her hair and brows. And still feel like there's something not right with the eyes. But we're coming along on the skin tone. Perhaps she still looks a bit old. Could also be it's just a lack of make up. Makes you think, don't it.

[Ykni]

Hi Lasca. That looks much better already. The main thing that is bothering me about the eyes are the eyelashes. It's always difficult to get them right I usually just add a line above the eye that's thin in the inner corner and get's wider towards the outer corner. From that line I draw a few lashes in the outer corner. On the bottom of the eye I draw two lines, a skin colored line against the eye and a darker line for the lashes against that first line. Because it's difficult to explain here is an example of what I mean.
To give the eyes some depth you could add some shade just below the top eyelid and add some bright shade of brown in the iris.
The shape of the left eye is probably still a bit off. I think the inner corner is a bit too wide, or perhaps it needs a bit more shade in the corner. Did you use a reference picture to draw this portrait? If you did you could just measure the size and placement of the eyes in order to study the face in more detail.

[Lasca]

Thanks ykni! I'll definitely try out your technique with the lashes! Btw that portrait of yours is really beautiful!
Your right that the shape of the left eye still is a bit bodged. I think I have to move down the eye a bit. And darken the inner corner, like you suggested.  The portrait is originally "inspired" by a photo, but I've moved away quite a bit from that picture, and now I'm just winging it thanks for your help!!

[Lasca]

Updated this and tried to do the eyelash thing. It looks better, but the left is still a bit strange. I think it's the iris. Ah well, probably time to move on to the hair so I don't end up wasting the rest of my life rubbing on that eye.

[Ykni]

I found this image that might help with figuring out what's wrong with the left eye.




When I compare your portrait to the reference drawings in the picture above I think that there might be a bit too much face showing on the outside of the left eye.

I think you are very brave to draw a portrait without a reference picture, that is a very difficult thing to do. Can't wait to see it finished.