Help summ up AGS pros and cons

[Crimson Wizard]

I was contacted by a representative of a team, which is making a list of 2d game engines:
http://www.slant.co/topics/341/~what-are-the-best-2d-game-engines

He asked me if I can give him a summary of pros and cons of AGS.
I do not feel like doing this only by myself, because I am not a game developer and have a rather "narrow" view on the program.
Could you help me in making a list of most important points so that I could send it back to them?

EDIT: replied sent; if you want to add more cons and pros, register at their webpage and do it yourself:
http://www.slant.co/topics/341/viewpoints/66/~what-are-the-best-2d-game-engines~adventure-game-studio

[cat]

Pros:
Active community
Active engine development
Successfully used for big and commercial projects
Free, open source

Cons:
Engine a bit dated regarding scripting language, platform support, but getting better

[Snarky]

Along the same lines as cat:

Pros:

• An all-in-one, easy to learn tool
• After 18 years of development and having been used for thousands of games (including a number of high-profile commercial releases), is very extensively featured and proven in its capabilities
• Relatively well documented, with manual, tutorials, code samples, and one-on-one community support
• A library of hundreds of free script modules to help simplify complex tasks
• An active community that can help with every aspect of game making (including art, voice acting, moral support, etc.)
• Active development that addresses bugs found in the engine
• Free and open source (with a permissive license)

Cons:

• Limited support for non-Windows platforms
• Engine somewhat dated, with certain technical limitations (e.g. saves incompatible between game updates) and performance problems (esp. with graphics-intensive work) - some of these limitations are visible to users (e.g. many settings can't be changed while game is running)
• A custom scripting language that lacks some useful features (particularly pointers to custom data structures)
• Workflow very tied to the editor and custom file formats, which can cause problems for bigger, more professional projects (intefering with source control, parallel development, automated builds, etc.)
• Most of the current engine development is being done by one single person, putting future support at risk
• 2D only, no support for 3D or shader effects

[xil]

Snarky's pretty much hit the nail on the head but I'd probably make a big song and dance about the built in functions:

• A library of hundreds of completely free script modules to help simplify complex tasks like Saving, Loading, Dialog Trees, Tween Effects, Smooth Scrolling & Parallax, Adventure Game Style Inventory, GUIs, Walkable Areas, Masking for characters walking behind objects and scenery, Simple Particle Systems and so much more!

My reasoning for expanding on Snarky's sentence about the free script modules:

If you booted up Unity, you'd sink a fair amount of money into buying the assets to be able to do all those things. Even products like Stencyl and Construct struggle to produce all of that functionality out of the box. As much as you can call AGS dated, it really is one of if not the best truly free 2D engines for prototyping that exists, and as long as you can put up with certain caveats, it's perfectly fine for full & commercial games as well.

[Joseph DiPerla]

My own personal pro's and cons:


Pros
*Completely Free
*Easy to use
*Great little functions and features not found in other engines(Run AGS Game within a game, backwards compatibility, etc..)
*Great Modules
*Great Scripting Engine, despite how others feel.
*Great Community
*Great Games


Cons:
*Lack of an interaction editor. - this was very useful for me before I was able to program and is a drawing point for many people to choose Visionaire.
*No way to compile and package games from the editor for Android or iOS.
*Lack of ports for systems such as Blackberry, Windows Phone, etc..
*Needs improved room editor/drawing tools
*Support for 3D Characters
*Support for built in Paralax Scrolling
*Confusing to have AGS 3.3.4 and 3.4.0.5. Needs to be combined into one.
*Compiler should be a command line tool so that people can make their own editing tools(Especially for Mac without using special software to run it)

[Snarky]

*Confusing to have AGS 3.3.4 and 3.4.0.5. Needs to be combined into one.

Actually, up until yesterday, the latest release of AGS was 3.3.3. (Still hasn't been updated on the main site - someone should take care of that.)

Higher version numbers than the official release are development branches (which you have to dig into github or the AGS development boards to find), and if you're not desperately in need of one of the features or an AGS expert who wants to help with testing, you probably shouldn't be using them. This is common practice for open source projects.

[TheBitPriest]

Just adding the current missing feature that was bugging me today.

Pro
* Built-in debugger

Con
* Lack of some common debugging features such as "watch variable"

[Crimson Wizard]

Thank you all. I sent the reply to website representative (trying to be honest), and they have already made an update.
You may review it here: http://www.slant.co/topics/341/viewpoints/66
I believe that you may register on website and vote for particular cons or pros if you consider them significant for yourself.

[selmiak]

Con:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

please add
Pro:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ= more control

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

[Crimson Wizard]

Con:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

please add
Pro:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ= more control

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

TBH I do not think that not having an alternate way to make scripts, which may be easier for particular people, is an advantage.
But if you think it is, I believe you may register on their website and suggest new pro or con directly.
I was simply sending them this info because they asked me. I do not really want to maintain that list.

[Gilbert]

I don't think the absence of a visual editor is a pro either, as we can have both at the same time, which is a better world. Not to mention that AGS did have a visual editor, but wasn't updated frequent enough to keep up with the features and so it was scraped.

[Monsieur OUXX]

It's just an objective comparison point with other editors: Unlike Unity and some others, AGS doesn't offer visual programming.

Everything has been said in Snarky's and Joseph DiPerla's posts.
My two centes: For professional development, the data structures thing can be easily addressed by using the Lua plugin. However it's hard to work around concurrential (multi-users) development.

[proximity]

Con:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

please add
Pro:
No visual editor for scripts†ˆ†ˆ= more control

You have to actually write all scripts yourself.

Actually, there was a visual script editor in the versions of AGS 2.72 and before. You were simply choosing a command (like MoveCharacter) and placing it to a object's pane without involving in any scripting. But when things got complicated, you're eventually ending up with coding in a script window. You have more freedom and control of your game in the new style. Believe me, you don't wanna go back to those days

[dbuske]

Pros
The direct connection between the editor and scripting.
The scripting language is underated. Helpful to beginners. Alot less hard to use than engines like flash which is geared towards programmers.
Thus geared mored toward artists and graphics.
A lot less problems with indentation than in c++, c#, and all the hardcore programmimg languages.
Handles png and transparency very well. Some engines don't use png.
Of course support for inventory.

[ollj]

its old , free and newbie friendly.
you can still do some quality stuff with it.

but its scripting language, with every new limitation to lists and structs i come closer to thinking that it is more an insult to c.

[Dave Gilbert]

Having experimented with other engines (and not being a "professional programmer" type), I will say this for AGS. It knows EXACTLY what you are trying to make, and takes a ton of the grunt work out of the process. Most other engines require you to create logic for things like characters, hotspots and objects. Whereas AGS has that logic already embedded with it. There's a lot to be said for that. Of all the engines I've played around with; AGS is the easiest to learn, most pleasant to work with, and can pretty much create anything I want.

That said, it's rapidly becoming outdated on modern systems. Ironically, the more powerful and souped up your PC is, the more likely it will have trouble running an AGS game. Dual screen setups cause no end of trouble. AGS games despise the Steam overlay (often causing unpredictable results when activated). It has unpredictable effects on certain brands of mouse (specifically logitech). You can't switch from fullscreen/windowed mode from within the games themselves (a really bizarre thing in 2015!). The list goes on.

Basically, it's a great engine to WORK in. But sadly, actually playing the games is becoming more and more problematic. I've been meaning to make the switch for years, but I'm so familiar with the system that I keep coming back.

[Klytos]

Using the engine professionally I have the same issues Dave posted above. Honestly, I've been toying with switching to a different engine too because of the same reasons, and the same reasons keep me from changing. I could spend six months learning a new engine and fine-tuning it to make games or I could make a new game. But one day in the not too distant future that tipping point will come and I'll switch. If I could fix three things to make my games more user friendly they would be

* Save game compatibility between versions. This is the single biggest issue we get complaints about, hands down.
* The ability to switch between full screen / windowed mode and change resolution from within the game. This isn't even a new idea, it's been standard in games for over a decade.
* Support for non-Windows operating systems. Mac and Linux in particular.

[Dave Gilbert]

Using AGS's default save system does NOT work. If we continue to use AGS, we'll make our own. This is totally possible to do using the current scripting system. It's just ridonkulously complicated.

#3 is possible it just takes a LOT of fiddling.

#2 is the biggest issue. And the one that gets us the most complaints. I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed yet.

[Monsieur OUXX]

#2 is the biggest issue. And the one that gets us the most complaints. I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed yet.

There was a module where you'd change the graphical settings in-game and the game would "reboot" itself and immediately reload the autosave it did before quitting.

[Klytos]

I've toyed at making my own save system as well Dave, and I am in full agreement! Possible but damn it's complicated! I'll stand by my comment with QFI our biggest complaint was backwards compatibility with saves. Not that changing res while in game isn't an issue, but with the ease of patching via steam now it's easier to throw out a fix and if the saves worked after even a tiny change then that would make life easier and the end-user experience a hell of a lot better.

Our biggest port issue is Mac on Steam. That's just a complete MOFO.