suggestion: right-to-left writing of text

Started by Alex Lowes, Thu 17/04/2003 00:42:44

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Alex Lowes

I want to suggest giving AGS a left to right writing option for translating games into languages like hebrew and arabic plus many others.
I am making this post cause I am translating KQ1VGA into hebrew but it is well known to me that it isn't possible to do so with AGS right now.Hope for the best


Alex Lowes

Gilbert

#1
right to left, not left to right, right? ;)

--EDIT--
I think this suggestion is quite interesting, I had just added it to the tracker.

Alex Lowes


Spyros

What about top to bottom...
bahhh
;D

Pumaman

By this, do you just mean to right-align text in messageboxes? Because presumably if the text is typed right-to-left in the game files or whatever, then it will show up correctly in the game.

Alex Lowes

Hebrew fonts don't work when I import them to the game.
Erpy from tierrra told me that's its because hebrew leters are abit diffarent.
barcik may know :o

Pumaman

Can I just clarify what the problem is here: is it a font importing problem, or a right-to-left writing problem?

I'm having trouble getting my head round the right-to-left thing, and how it actually affects a standard sentence - perhaps you could provide an example?

Alex Lowes

ok now I spoke with my brothe which is a programmer and he told me to write you this
and its an import problem cause somhow right to left works ;D(hard to explain).
here is what he said:
"only if you can please import char achters between  0x0E0 and 0xFA into your fonts and let them be displayed."
hope it's the info you needed .   8)

am

Hebrew RtL writting have a few problems -
1. The chars are from the upper ASCII area (replasing the latin chars)
2. some progs. write the hebrew from last letter to first letter (depends on implementation), so how the hebrew is written to the translation file is importent and must be defined.
3. when starting a sentance from the right, the line brakes are diffrent, because otherwise the first line will show up the last.

I'll be happy to try hebrew translation version when available.

Pumaman

#9
Ah, I see - so for example the text

ABC DEF GHI JKL MNO

would normally be displayed like this:
ABC DEF GHI
JKL MNO

but right-to left, it would instead be:
GHI JKL MNO
ABC DEF

is that correct?

am

more like
LKJ IHG FED CBA

appearing like
LKJ IHG
FED CBA

instead of
FED CBA
LKJ IHG

but this is only part of the problem as I wrote earlier

Pumaman

Assuming that a Hebrew TTF font was used with the correct characters in the correct ASCII slots, then this should work presumably?

am

Hopefully,
BTW if you need Hebrew fonts I can mail you

BlackBaron

Maybe this is a dumb suggestion, but once you have the font, couldn't yuo just write things backward in the texts, that is doing it by hand instead of letting the engine do it?
"Do you thirst for knowledge no matter the cost?"
            -Watrik, master glassblower

Alex Lowes

 ??? ??? ???
I just said that by a test I made with AGS I thunk that right to left might just works:)
but the thing is that you see squers instead of letters because in yhe hebrew font map you have more space for example:
we start with the simple A-Z
and afterwards we have agin more fonts but with the hebrew letters.
my brother sais it has to do with the encoding of hebrew fonts I think.
add this to the charicaters map.encoding 1255.(som coding info I don't understand :-X).

am

Writting backwards is a possebility (although not very appealing), but it leaves the problem with the end of line ...

I just remembered anothe problem - mixing hebrew\english and hebrew\numbers  - this is a very problematic thing, and even micro$oft didn't completly solved it in their office ...

BlackBaron

Are you using a TrueType Font?
If you are try using some SCI fonts, try making just some characters with the SCI studio font editor to see if it works.
"Do you thirst for knowledge no matter the cost?"
            -Watrik, master glassblower

BlackBaron

Well, it should, they are just pictures, why wouldn't it?

Never mind.

If you can't find a better solution think you should just try to do your own SCI hebrew fonts. I know it's a tedious work but I think that for now is your shorter alternative (It's a dirty work but someone has to do it  ;) ).
"Do you thirst for knowledge no matter the cost?"
            -Watrik, master glassblower

am

I don't think it'll help, the hebrew characters are on the high ASCII scale, and the AGS engine doesn't support them (or so it seems), what you are suggesting is to replace the english letters with hebrew ones, which will also require the translator to write the translation in english letters (highly unreadable and not user friendly) and it still leavs us with the end of line problem mentioned earlier

BlackBaron

I see...

Sorry then, I run out of ideas...
"Do you thirst for knowledge no matter the cost?"
            -Watrik, master glassblower

Alex Lowes

wait a minute you missunderstood my explanation I think.
my brother told me that it is posible,very(he wants the AGS source code (but I know chris won't trust me of course and I respect that :D).
Now let me explain it in my originall way  ;D:
click start,programs,accessories,system tools,character map when you get to it choose click on the advanced view first choose from the top of the screen a hebrew ttf(I repeate ttf)click on an english letter E for example now and watch the bottom part of the screen you will se a code
named:U+0045 or:character Code 0X45
when this gets to AGS the english part of the font works(or will work) because AGS is told in some sort of programing way that this space(where it is places in the map itself) of letter exists.
if only there was a way telling AGS(has to do with the code I wrote above)to see all the rest of the spaces it will be possible to use any language and not only hebrew fonts .
chris if you have any question about it please mail my brother at:
(I will give you his address in a private message).
and he will give you a full and correct explenation if you need it.

Gilbert

I'm not quite sure, but I think AGS currently supports only font # within the first 128 range to be displayed (at least for SCI fonts, dunno about TTF, but they would be converted to an Allegro/AGS native format before use I think, so the result may still be the same), if it can be made to break teh barrier, even Chinese font sets can be displayed without modifications. ;D
I think that all depends on how CJ script the functions and what Allegro provides.

am

Yes, this is the font problem - hebrew fonts are above the 127 ASCII, and this is also what Alex is reffering to.

Enabeling ASCII above 127 shall solve this problem so Hebrew characters can be printed.

However, there are 2 more problems I mentioned earlier:
1. When translating a game into hebrew the exact format for writting must be pre-detrmined (easy to solve when all other problems are solved) + The fonts used in the game must be replased with hebrew fonts.

2. The end of line problem (see my explanations above).

Alex Lowes

make a note that some hebrew fonts are only written in hebrew and when I will be able to  use my  labtop again I will check if theese fonts work (can be seen) cause theire level of ascII is where the English letters are.
but the thing is the  most of the standart fonts are on a  higher level of ascii.
I will report my test results later on ::)

Pumaman

AGS only supports up to ASCII 127 with SCI fonts; however, with TTF fonts the full 256 characters are supported (but not unicode, sorry).

I'll see how much work it would be to have an option for the line break going backwards.

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