ANZAC day

Started by Femme Stab Mode >:D, Fri 25/04/2003 06:15:17

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Femme Stab Mode >:D

I guess most of you wouldn't know what ANZAC day is unless you're Australian. I guess no other country has a day like this, it's weird -  happyness mixed with mourning. When I marched every one was smiling and cheering and waving banners saying "thank you". However, at the dawn service the athmosphere was solemn. Everyone said that this day is for remembrance. The march in the city was totaly different, this was truly a public holiday, not a day for sadness. Everyone was happy and smiling. where's the sense in that?

I march every year with the cadets and carry the flag for the 1st battalion every year as well. Some of you Brisbanites might have seen me, I was the one with the black, green and grey flag. I was the 3rd on the right when I marched with cadets. I'm still puzzled at what ANZAC day is in reality.
NANANANANANA ASSHOLE!

Quickstrike

We have a odd holiday in the US, Veteran's Day.  Everybody is mourning for the sacrifices of soldiers of war, but are almost dancing around because they get the day off!  America is very messed up!
"You know something people,  I'm not black, but there's a whole buncha times I wish I could say 'I'm not white'"-Frank Zappa, "Trouble Every Day"

Femme Stab Mode >:D

Veteran day=American rip-off ANZAC day  :D
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Timosity

#3
That's a bit harsh Sasha, every country has their days of remembering, although there is also Rememberance day in November, 11/11 at 11am, I always thought it should be at 11:11am (even 11secs to be precise) if they wanted all the 11's.

It's a public holiday, yay, no work, a 3 day week since easter was last weekend. so we had a 4 day weekend Followed by a 3 day weekend, but I guess it is school holidays anyway so school and some uni students probably had 2 weeks holiday anyway, atleast in NSW.

My parents have gone to Sprinkle my mum's Uncle's ashes in Sydney harbour, he was in WW2, he was also a POW somewhere, I can't remember the story, I didn't really know him that well. He died last year at home.


Las Naranjas

#4
I think I might add that New Zealand has a very similair day...

But it's true that it has some unique properties. It's simultaneously militaristic and fiercely pacifist. Which is strange.
And that no other country [except possibly NZ] has fought in so many wars for which there was no conceivable gain except siccophancy.

---edit---

And they're showing that ANZAC day McDonalds ad. I can't think of another corporation so utterly and completely morally bankrupt that it would exploit ANZAC day in advertising.


---edit 2---

For the benefit of those not aquainted...

In 1915 with stalemate on the Western front, Germany decided to go East, and the allies thought about exploiting the immense, but dreadfully ill equiped Russian army. Arms could not be shifted through the baltic because of U-boats, so it was decided to pop in through the back door via the Black Sea. The entrance to the black sea is the Dardanelles straights, which were controlled Turkey, allied to the Central Powers.
It was thus undertaken to invade the Gallipoli penninsular with a force of of British, French [we always forget them] and Imperial troops from Australia and New Zealand (ANZAC). The latter two had already invaded German territory in New Guinea and the pacific.

Command was given to one of the British commanders typical for the period who'd got his job because of his family. He had previously deployed troops against the menace of the Suffragettes and later proposed to use poison gas in subduing the Mesopotamian tribes (now the Iraqis).
So it's strange why they kept giving Winston S. Churchill jobs.

But back on track, a more important element was a reporter called C. W Bean. Over  a decade before Australian journalists had attempted to use the Boer war as a nation building exercise (even though it was another display of siccophancy towards the empire). Bean saw the Gallipoli campaign as another such example.
His account of the character of the ANZAC forces became the basis for the Anzac legend which was used by Nationalists in our country. It thus shares the nationalistic illusions of the "Glorious Revolution" of 1688 in Britain, the war of independence in America and the French revolution. All nations use fairly distorted histories in their nation basis. Part and parcle of nationalism I guess.
Although the day is used to commemorate other conflicts, (including the Kokoda Track which had a far more important bearing on our history) it is the view of this original invasion which the day commemorates that has bearing on it's importance. [Vietnam got left out for decades because the power brokers both in the government distanced themselves. The people who had sent them to die and gloried in that wished to wash their hands]
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The original anzacs were a bunch of stupid bastards who decided it would be a good idea to go and fight for the British empire. They went with the mistaken view it would be a glorious exercise and ended up getting shafted by their command. I really don't think the whole anzac "tradition" had any effect on the shaping of the Australian character. It's a crying shame, but nothing to be celebrated.
Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

Las Naranjas

I was used immensley.

It had nothing to do with the truth, as far as the truth is a valid concept, but no nation is ever built on truth.

The legend, whether true or not was used to a huge extent by those with a purpose in Australian nationalism.

[I had to study this in Historiography]
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Quote from: Las Naranjas on Fri 25/04/2003 09:22:19
I was used immensley.
Sure, it might have been used a lot. I'm not sure the way I am was in anyway shaped by it though.
Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

Las Naranjas

But you're not nationalist.

Australian National Identity is a very seperate thing to Australian society.

A Nation isn't the same thing as a country.
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Quote from: Las Naranjas on Fri 25/04/2003 10:07:43
Australian National Identity is a very seperate thing to Australian society.
Indeed. Perhaps someone should tell john howard
Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

Femme Stab Mode >:D

Quoting my father:
Australia is the only country that can be proud of something that others would be ashamed of.

It sounds bad, but really -  beeing proud of something that no one else can be proud of -  isn't that an achievement? I saw a batalion today and their mascot was a pig. Their battle cry is oink oink. Yet they're proud. Why be ashamed? Those men wanted to serve their country. They grew up with the old DULCIA ET DECORUM EST PRO PARTIA MORI. War wasn't covered much in those days.Now we can see how bad it is on TV but then all they had was poems, especialy Wilfred Owen's poems were very descriptive of war. Today, I'd rather not argue about how stupid was the mistake that day. It's not the fault of the young men that died that day that they got droped off in the wrong spot. At least they had the country's future in their mind. Let them lie in peace.
NANANANANANA ASSHOLE!

Soft, Gooey, Delicious.

Quote from: MonsterSasha on Fri 25/04/2003 12:12:04
At least they had the country's future in their mind. Let them lie in peace.
No, they had the empire's future in mind. Besides they're dead, they've been lying in piece for 80 odd years.

Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

Femme Stab Mode >:D

How do you know? Do you have some magic telepathic ability? Can you travel backwards in time? I'd like to see someone do that. What I meant about them resting in peace is simply - let's stop insulting them for one day, or, possibly, for a longer period of time. You're not dead. Be grateful for that.
NANANANANANA ASSHOLE!

Las Naranjas

The Australia of back then was a very different place.

Bigoted and racist more than most of Europe, siccophantic to the empire, disgustingly homophobic to the restriction of male emotion.


The thing I like most in multiculturalism was actively combatted. If that had continued, we wouldn't have people like you Sasha, and that would be unfortunate, just like if we hadn't recieved the rest of the non-anglo immigration.
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DGMacphee

What I find ironic about the whole ANZAC legend is the way the soldiers in Gallipoli were presented by Bean as these big, tough, heroic men.

Even though most of them were actually shit-scared and only had two choices from theri commanding officers:

A) jump off the boats and storm the coast

B) Get shot by their commanding officers for not obeying orders

It reminds me of that drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket (Hartman).

The army dehumanises soldiers, making them killers, and meanwhile the whole nation celebrates their bravery.

And for a battle we lost.
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Raggit

Shasha, what are you trying to proove?

And whats up with calling Veteran's Day a "rip off" of your ANZAC (how do you spell it?) day or whatever.
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Femme Stab Mode >:D

Sorry, it was a bad joke about veteran day, I wasn't serious. I'm just puzzled that mourning and celebrating can be mixed into one day.
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TheYak

Veteran's day can't really be a rip-off of ANZAC day...  need I remind you it's a celebration of the country's veterans....  not just the dead ones.  


I'm a veteran.  Please don't mourn me.

Soft, Gooey, Delicious.

Quote from: YakSpit on Sun 27/04/2003 02:25:02
I'm a veteran.  Please don't mourn me.
Where did you fight?
Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

TheYak

Veteran doesn't meant fought in a war.   It means served in the military.  However, I guess if you wish to be stringent about it...  I was in the service for the latter part of the croatian crap and was in when the 9/11 deal went on.  

Soft, Gooey, Delicious.

Yeah, but did you fight? Was someone shooting at you?I think that's what veteran really implies. Just being signed up doesn't mean shit. That's certainly the case in Australia anyway.
Kant was a dirty deontologist fuck.
the fade.
Yeeha!
Call me...  now

AGA

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/v/v0079100.html -

"A person who has served in the armed forces: "Privilege, a token income . . . were allowed for veterans of both world wars" (Mavis Gallant)." - no mention of battle.

Las Naranjas

Although plenty of AGSers have done military time, including during conflict, I can only think of one who's seen active combat.
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