Running AGS on Linux? Is it even possible?

[ernesti]

  Has anyone tried running AGS under Wine on LInux?  
I wish Chris let someone port AGS to Linux..     : Does anyone know
when is this miracle going to happen?  :'(  

[Gilbert]

There is a native Linux version of the game engine already, see:
http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=5746

If you meaned the Game Editor, Erica Mclane had had success in running it through WINE, see:
http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=6010

There're no native Linux version of the editor at the moment.

[Erica McLane]

Yeah, it ran correctly. All you have to do is to configure Wine correctly.

[ernesti]

The problem is the plugins, you can't use Windows dlls in Linux, so they also have to be ported to Linux.

Shawn (the one who made the linux version of the engine)  said that and he also added, that he's looking forward porting the whole editor to linux later this year.  I suggest that the current well known plugins should be integrated to the linux version..  so there'd be no problems running on Linux.  

The windows version should also have an ability to compile the game to Linux, now that it only has ability to DOS and Windows compilations. Linux users wouldn't have to download the linux engine separately and make sure that some filenames are correct..   and if the game uses plugins, then it does not work at all...  So there should be a way to make AGS cross-platform.. that it'd work in any Linux or Windows platform.  One answer is JAVA, it works on any OS, but it's also very slow..  and since AGS wasn't built in java, then it's not the answer.

Hmmm.. tricky business..  But we should all change our view, programs shouldn't be created only for Windows, they should be cross-platform. The only obsticle is Microsoft, they make sure that developers stay in their stable. They didn't put JAVA support to XP and so on.. They're just afraid of losing the way of making more and more money.  :    :o

[Pumaman]

The problem is the plugins, you can't use Windows dlls in Linux, so they also have to be ported to Linux.

True, however most games do not use plugins, so it's not a huge problem.

I suggest that the current well known plugins should be integrated to the linux version..  so there'd be no problems running on Linux.  

That's a possibility to consider, but would require the plugin authors to release their source code of course.

The windows version should also have an ability to compile the game to Linux, now that it only has ability to DOS and Windows compilations. Linux users wouldn't have to download the linux engine separately and make sure that some filenames are correct..

This is more a logistics problem - I compile the DOS and Windows engines, and I then release AGS.

Remember that both myself and Shawn (the linux port maintainer) are doing this in our spare time, and I would have to delay the release of the new version while Shawn compiled the linux version, so that I could include it in the zip.

I'm not prepared to put that sort of pressure on him, or to unnecessarily delay a new release, especially considering that the editor is not officially supported under linux anyway.

So there should be a way to make AGS cross-platform..

I don't know what more you want, really. AGS has a linux port of the engine - this is a more than you can say about most software.

You can run all AGS games (except those that use plugins) natively under Linux, so I'd say that sounds pretty cross-platform to me.

But we should all change our view, programs shouldn't be created only for Windows, they should be cross-platform.

You're preaching to the converted here. However, remember that Windows is used on something like 95% of desktop PCs, so if you only have the time and resources to develop for one platform, it's a surefire winner to choose.

[ernesti]

  :o I'm not preaching about anything, i'm just suggesting. I know you and shawn do all this on your sparetime. Yes 95% of desktop computers use WIndows, but that is going to change in the near future.

But i guess i shouldn't have posted that previous comment since you live in the present, not in the future. Maybe i should do the same thing, live in present -> Move back to WIndows.

Not many games use plugins, but that tends to change like everything do.  

I think there's many experts who'd want to help you, it takes time to do everything alone. But then again, you'd have to reveal the source code.. and that's the thing that you don't want to do, right? To prevent people from hacking other people's games? Yup but who'd want to hack any ags game, they're not that good. :

Thank you, great job so far..

[Pumaman]

 :o I'm not preaching about anything, i'm just suggesting.

Hehe it's just a turn of phrase.

I think there's many experts who'd want to help you, it takes time to do everything alone. But then again, you'd have to reveal the source code..

Managing an open-source project, or one with a large number of developers, is a nightmare. The situation at the moment makes things easy to manage, and I don't have to sit there for hours on end reviewing other people's changes and so forth.

To prevent people from hacking other people's games? Yup but who'd want to hack any ags game, they're not that good. :

Actually, you'd be surprised. There are a number of people who have wanted to 'borrow' sprites and backgrounds out of AGS games, and a couple who have wanted to get other people's music.

While you may think it's not that big a deal, I have conducted surveys about this, and people developing games do see it as very important that others shouldn't be able to easily steal their work.

Thank you, great job so far..

No problem.

[wOoDz]

the games aren't that good? mm, its like anything really, you can go out and spend £40+ on a PSX2 game thats not very good, but here most people work for free, with different capabilities, and they all get a chance to show what they can do, with help and support along the way;
personally i think CJ and Co. do for more than any other games system developer to provide a reliable system thats easy to use and without personal gain; the fact they have an almost 1000 people strong forum sez it all really, that must be priceless to them.
windows is here to stay, how many ppl still use win98?
joe public hate things new (to them) linux would need to do something really special to make them change

woodz

[ernesti]

 : Well the reason why i changed from Win98SE to Linux was unstability... Even if i installed it over and over again, there comes a point when i had to run defrag and scandisk to keep the system running.

And it never ran smoothly, even if i had 256 mb of ram, it didn't use it efficiently. It's said that 98 is 20% faster and more reliable than 95, hah.. yup 95 was crap.. i was confused when i got the first illegal operation and that famous blue screen...  Hah on 98 nothing really changed.. in fact it should have been just a free update for 95 users.  
Yup ... i was happy, but then i discovered WinME, hah  it's a good thing i didn't upgrade...  coz it's just the same like 98 with some new features, but basically it's just an expensive update to 98. Then what about WinXP.. sure, it's better than any Windows OS ever, it's more stable and so on..  But it didn't take long for me to crash it. Hah.. i just started the browser.. and BOOM.. had to reboot again.  

That's a quick history of me and my windows.  Now.. in linux..  i've used it for a month now..  it has never crashed.. or become unstable... i'm impressed...  It's only a matter of time when people discover this better alternative...    

Heyy.. and do tell me one good reason, why to change back to Windows? Yup .. i know one good reason, the compatibility.. yup yap yap..  but it's going to change too.. manufacturers are beginning to support Linux OS.. and it's not going to take long when there's Tux penguin in every scanner package.. along with the good old Windows symbol.

[wOoDz]

every vesion of window i've used has had problem, i hated win95, we had loads of problem with 98se, which turned out to be down to Directx7 which it came with the computer package, Me would just lock up after a few hours, and XP we had loads of problems, but if you use the event viewer you can find out why, it didn't like zonealarm, we had a dodgey ram chip and a cable modem issue.
windows is great for first time users, who buys thier PC's new,its full of bullshit, easy to use, and for the the normal everyday user it'll be fine and never crashes, its when we go beyond that and add fancy tools, adding software and deleting it, and generally feckin about with it!
i looked into Linux after a really bad do with 98, it sounds great, but looking a bit harder, our cable modem was going to be a nightmare and to honest i can reformat and reinstall any windows in less than a hour, get on the net for drivers and don't chew on getting hardware to work again, the wife/kids can install off a CD and it works, and with my missus things HAVE to work first time!
i would love to see Linux tumble Mr gates but thats a long long way off
just out of interest which version of LInux do you use?
i've a laptop running Win95 it would be interesting to see if in action
woodz

[RickJ]

wOoDz:  My favorite linux distro is Suse.  It kind of comes with all the sw ever written;  well at least as much of it that will fit on to 7-8 CDs.  

I'm happy there is a native linux engine and I am patiently waiting for the port of the editor.  I can't complain about the pace of development, things seem to progress rapidly around here.  So for me th AGS/Linux editor will come when it comes.  I am greatful that someone is actively thinking about it.  

(The following ancedote is one example of the great win/linux debate I have encountered in real life.  I thought you may enjoy it even though the specifics are not related to AGS)
I design and deploy industrial control systems in my day job.  In the win/linux debate I have observed both sides of the issue.   Now first of all Windows is inferior, technically, to Linux in the kind of industrial applications I am talking about.    However, many of my colleagues, make the mistake of prematurely dismissing windows and the need for our creations to operate in both worlds.  The need I speak of is of a political and pshycological nature rather than technical.  It's a weird phenomnem,  if you don't provide windows compatibility, they will (the customer) complain about and resist your system;  if you do provide windows compatibility they will very likely not use it for very long.    IMHO, the only way to win this debate is to not have it.  

I don't think we will settle this debate here though.  Let's just be greatful for what we have and gently encourage those who are toiling to bring us even more

[Pumaman]

I do think that Windows-bashing is done far too often just for the sake of it.

Personally since upgrading to Windows 2000, I have had no stability problems. I regularly leave my computer on for weeks at a time without needing to reboot.

Yes, if you compare Windows 95/98 to Linux then it's not stable, but that's like comparing a horse and cart to a car for long distance travel.

The fact of the matter is, nobody forces anyone to use Windows. It has become the dominant market leader because it is good. Simple as that. That's how capitalism works.

[Gilbert]

How about comparing DOS with Linux, DOSUSER?


Alright, actually there's no point in arguing which OS is better, as each of them has it's good sides and its bad sides, just stick to personal favorite .


I'm all for DOS, of course.

[Erica McLane]

I`m running Mandrake Linux, it`s quite stable but it has some bad bugs. I will move to Windows 2003 Server when I get my new PC, becasue I heard that it`s quite stable.

Moderator opinion: This thread is no more related to this forum. If somebody continues it I will move it to the AGS Tech forum.

[ernesti]

 : I'm running Mandrake too. To me.. it's working very well... havn't notices any BAD bugs.

Being a market leader doesn't mean that it's the best OS, Windows has been the only option for consumers the past ten years... but now when XP license is so expensive .. and hah you can only use it on one pc, if you have more than one, you have to buy more licenses, isn't that true? No wonder Linux is becoming more popular every year. So people who use pc only for writing few documents a month and surfing on the web or for a programmer, Linux is more than good. Those who want to play games and make sure that every device work properly, then it's Windows.

There're many people saying pc = windows, windows = pc ..  isn't it logical?  If you buy a computer you get windows automatically, it's like compulsory hardware just like your keyboard and mouse. What if they told you that you get the same package   250 e off if you want it with Linux (7 cd's + one dvd ) instead of Windows (1 cd). But they don't do that, do they?

[Pumaman]

As Gilbert says, there's no point at all in arguing which is better - we could go on all day and reach no agreement.

They are alternative operating systems. Use whatever works best for you.

Linux is still not quite there in ease-of-use terms for the average person to install. When I tried with Mandrake, it got stuck in a loop in the install routine, so that was the end of that.  If you know what you're doing though, I don't doubt it is as good an OS as anything else.

[ernesti]

I had no problems installing Mandrake on computer that has Intel processor, but
I had the same problem installing it to computer with VIA C3 processor. (x86FREE failed to install..).. But i read the instructions how to prevent it, i just had boot from floppy which had different kernel that is compatible with the processor that is other than Intel. Then i had to type something like lt2, so it installed with the current kernel. Then it worked without any problems.    And it's said on the mandrake website that the default kernel works only on Intel pentium class computer, other processors like AMD, VIA C3 have to be installed with different kernel.

I'm not argueing which one is better, i just want discussion.. And what i say is only my opinion. (Seems like people here don't get that... I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. ) but what i say about Microsoft being barbaric and its OS being mostly unstable is true...  Microsoft licenced that Unix kernel thing, and now sent warnings to Linux companies that they're using a kernel that has stolen code.  They say the end user is responsible for using the stolen software and this might lead to court. Microsoft said the the reason for licencing it was that they want to improve compatibility...  =)
I think UNIX was open-source OS, until Microsoft... hah hah ..
And what do you call that? Aren't they desperate? They're even paying for Mexico to use their software, coz they were going to use Linux.  That is funny thing..
:

[Erica McLane]

Hmm. Strange. I have installed Mandrake on an AMD processor with the default kernel and everything was OK. It is ok now, too.

[Gilbert]

I'm not argueing which one is better, i just want discussion.. And what i say is only my opinion. (Seems like people here don't get that... I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. ) but what i say about Microsoft being barbaric and its OS being mostly unstable is true...  Microsoft licenced that Unix kernel thing, and now sent warnings to Linux companies that they're using a kernel that has stolen code.  They say the end user is responsible for using the stolen software and this might lead to court. Microsoft said the the reason for licencing it was that they want to improve compatibility...  =)
I think UNIX was open-source OS, until Microsoft... hah hah ..
And what do you call that? Aren't they desperate? They're even paying for Mexico to use their software, coz they were going to use Linux.  That is funny thing..
:

Then I think it's already out of scoop of this forum's purpose, as it's off topic now, better move such kind of discussion to the Gen. Gen. forum, but I doubt many people would be interested in such discussion, since the forums here are basically for the discussion of AGS and related stuff, or private secrets of AGSers, which few people will discuss about OSes.

[Pumaman]

I'm not argueing which one is better, i just want discussion.. And what i say is only my opinion.

Oh I understand that, all I'm saying is that here is not the best place for a Linux vs Windows discussion. I've seen too many of them on the internet, and they tend to degenerate into an excuse for Microsoft-bashing, which really isn't productive at all.