Game Idea (Need feedback)

[David533]

(Please note: None of the screenshots are pictures of the actual game, since it's only an idea. I'd need help with the art for it, anyway.)

Pirates of Dark Water: Ren's Quest


This game idea is based on a popular Hanna Barbara cartoon that came out in the early 90's (it now comes on the smaller Cartoon Network channel called "Boomerang"). You are Ren, Prince of Octopon, on a quest to find the 13 Treasures of Rule to restore the world of Mer.

Here are the characters:


Ren (player)
As stated above, he is the Prince of Octopon, and son of King Primus. When the King left in search of the fabled 13 Treasures of Rule, to save his dying world, Ren was given over to the care of a lighthouse keeper. His identity was to be kept a secret, as there were enemies of the throne who would surely do him harm if they thought he could be used to beat Primus to the powerful and elusive Treasures. When Ren came of age, and when his father returned, he told him about his destiny and heritage, including giving him his prized posession; a broken sword. He also told him about the 13 Treasures of Rule, and being his son, Ren took the responsibility to search for them.


Niddler
This comical Merian creature is a cross between a spider monkey and a parrot. He kidnaps Ren to Bloth’s ship, but then helps him escape, becoming Ren’s best friend. Though cowardly when the chips are down, Niddler comes through in a pinch.


Ioz
He is a mercenary with dubious integrity who will do almost anything for a handful of gold. He is a rugged adventurer who has been in more battles and street brawls than he can remember. For a time Ioz was a member of Bloth’s nasty crew of cutthroat pirates. Looking for a fast profit, Ioz teams up with Ren, who he believes is a naïve boy searching for some lost treasure. Learning that Ren is actually on a quest for the fabled 13 Treasures of Rule, Ioz becomes furious, but is gradually won over by Ren’s integrity and goodness. In fact, he becomes something of a big brother to the boy, not only protecting him in times of danger, but instructing him in the ways of a swashbuckler. Ioz, above all things, is an expert seafarer, and could probably pilot a ship blindfolded, just by the feel of the ocean.


Tula
She is a seventeen-year-old tavern wench who overhears Ren’s talk of setting out in search of the 13 Treasures of Rule. When she turned up as a stowaway on the stolen ship, the Wraith, she quickly establishes herself as an asset to the group.


Lord Bloth
He's a savage alien pirate and Ren's mortal enemy. This cold-blooded high seas marauder sails in search of the 13 Treasures of Rule. He kidnapped Primus and held him aboard his monster warship, THE MAELSTROM, trying to get information as to the whereabouts of the Treasures the King had his captains hide. When Primus escaped and passed the mantle of the quest over to his long lost son, Ren, Bloth went after the youth with a vengeance. Now they are sworn enemies, and race to find the jewels. Bloth will stop at nothing to gain the Treasures, which will give him the power to control Dark Water and thus rule the planet for his own profit. With his bloodthirsty cutthroat crew, this ruthless pirate raves anything and anyone who stands in the way of his evil mission.

Any feedback, or help is definitely appreciated.

[evenwolf]

First of all, I see no real idea here. I am quite familiar with the show and that is all you do in this post- introduce us to characters and a plot.

What you don't do is tell us what you bring to the table.  Are you ripping art from the actual show? Are you drawing your own sprites?  Is your game going to be long enough for all 13 treasures? Are you doing this out of nostalgia for the show?  

If you want my feedback- I would say, don't attempt a story that doesn't belong to you. There are an infinite amount of universes waiting to be created, don't attempt to interpret one that's already been created. Create your own.

[David533]

Actually, I was going to have the game finish the collecting. So they get all 13 treasures, and Ren also gets the broken sword fixed during the course of the game.

I don't have any artistic skills. I'm only good at story writing, and programming (but this is my first time working on AGS).

I have an original story that has nothing to do with Pirates of Dark Water, but this has more information than my original game at the moment.

[DGMacphee]

Let me put it this way: doing a game that makes the player go after 13 treasures is a big-ass game.

(Look at Monkey Island 2 -- You were going after only one treasure by finding four map parts, and that's already a big-ass game)

13 treasures equals a lot of work for you to keep the player's attention.

Add to this the fact you can't draw and this is your first time using AGS.

Also add to this that this idea is based on someone else's show, thus could infringe on copyright (though, that's never stopped people before).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: DON'T DO IT.

At least, not yet.

Instead, make a smaller game with an original story and with original characters -- think of it as a learning experience with AGS.

Then, when you feel more ambitious, go for the bigger project (Not only that, but if someone sees your smaller game and likes it, they may feel like doing some art for your bigger project).

However, I stress for people to do original projects -- People like playing games with new perspecitves and twists.

[MillsJROSS]

http://www.sylpher.com/a/BigArticle.html

is all I have to say.

-MillsJROSS

[David533]

As I said already, I have an original game, but I don't have much information on it at the moment.

Not to mention I know people will tell me to make it myself, when I have no artistic skills, even when I stress that I don't.

And I knew this would happen. Show a fan-made game I want to make, and people have to jump down my throat, like I did something terribly wrong. Seems to happen with anything I want to make.

[veryweirdguy]

We're not jumping down your throat - we're trying to help you. Many newcomers to AGS immediately want to make a big game like Monkey Island or something but a high level of these are scrapped due mainly to lack of experience.

Also, many of us don't like doing art for a game unless we are a bigger part of the project, like we have a say in the plot or something. It's like a writer being told by the publisher "We want you to write THIS story, with THIS plot twist half-way through, and THIS many chapters...". That would just be boring.

Quite a few of us here have low artistic talent (myself included) but we still give it a go simply because it's what we ENJOY doing. We don't get paid, it's just a hobby, so we do thing our own way.

So I urge you, start with smaller projects. They can have simple artwork, illogical puzzles, and don't even have to be released to the public. You just need to get a FEEL for things. I have not released a game to the community yet, all I've done is practise so far.

But it's up to you. Just remember we're trying to help.

[n3tgraph]

hmmm

never liked pirates of dark water

but you can try
I have to agree with mills and DG tho

[Captain Mostly]

isn't this the show with man-eating blackness...

Anyway, don't worry about no arty talent. If it's a good game, people will enjoy it even if it DOES look nothing much like the cartoon it was based on. Then if it's a big success, you'll easily find peeps who'd volunteer to re-do the art, allowing you to re-release the game to a second (probably even bigger) round of applause...

take it from me, games REALLY don't have to be pretty to do well round here (in fact, most of the pretty one's are pretty crummy beyond their good looks. People tend to either write a great game OR draw nice pictures. I think Kings Quest VGA is the only real exception to this rule, and I never likes Kings Quest anyway)

[David533]

One thing people seem to be forgetting when they reply to this, and I've already stressed too much. I can't draw.

The only thing I can draw is stick figures, and even those don't look good.

It seems to me people are saying this: If you can't draw even a little, don't use AGS. And even if you can't draw, you should make a game with AGS first so people will think you're serious about it.

And to me, that second sentence contradicts the first. You need to have some kind of drawing ability to make a game in AGS. And I don't have ANY drawing abilities.

I told Snake this was a bad idea to begin with. I come here and ask for help (Snake suggested I do this), and I just get the same responses I get from anywhere else.

[SSH]

Look at any of my games and you will see that I can't draw either. Now, my games are not the greatest ever, but at least I've done SOMETHING! They're not very big either.

Also, I found some of the drawing tutorials in the Critics Lounge a great help to get my art up to the low standard you can see in my games.

Or go and look at a modern art musuem and relaise how great your talents are, anyway... in the pompidou centre in Paris there is a completely blue canvas with nothing else on it. I think it was maybe called "Taking the micheal"  

[n3tgraph]

you can learn how to draw... I mean
you gotta take some time for it

[Dmitri]

play this game and tell me you need good art to make a game

http://www.geocities.com/captains_games/

or even the Rob Redford series

http://www.agsforums.com/games.php?action=search&sterm=Robert+Redford

it's not a matter of good art... but CONSISTENT art; there's a difference. You can't have a landscape background and stick figures, you also can't have a horizon line and, I dunno, some form of high detail player character.

We're not art critics, we're game players: and anyway it's possible to teach yourself to draw. maybe you need to practice the skills you don't yet know you have.

[DGMacphee]

As I said already, I have an original game, but I don't have much information on it at the moment.

Make the original game

Not to mention I know people will tell me to make it myself, when I have no artistic skills, even when I stress that I don't.

Even if you can't draw you can still make a good game -- my three main games (Ultimerr, Stickmen, and Dada:SIB) were made with minimal drawing talent.

The whole notion of good graphics in an adventure game is bollocks -- Some of the best adventures ever didn't have graphics (e.g. Colossal Caves)

The trick is to make a game that is original (e.g. I once had an idea for a detective game but with the main characters as smileys, hence the title Smileytown, and thus wouldn't need much artistic talent).

But if you believe you can't make a game based only on the fact you can't draw, go away -- there are tons of great adventures by people with limited graphics talent.

Look at one of the best, Pleughburg -- The graphics aren't gorgeous, but the gameplay sets it apart.

And I knew this would happen. Show a fan-made game I want to make, and people have to jump down my throat, like I did something terribly wrong. Seems to happen with anything I want to make.

You asked for advice on your story, and we gave our opinion quite tactfully and fairly -- Don't winge and accuse us of jumping down your throat when you ask for advice.

We are only trying to help.

The only thing I can draw is stick figures, and even those don't look good.

I made an adventure game with crude stick figures -- people loved it.

It seems to me people are saying this: If you can't draw even a little, don't use AGS. And even if you can't draw, you should make a game with AGS first so people will think you're serious about it.

And to me, that second sentence contradicts the first. You need to have some kind of drawing ability to make a game in AGS. And I don't have ANY drawing abilities.

Wrong.

No one said "If you can't draw even a little, don't use AGS."

In fact, I promote the opposite -- make a great AGS game even if your graphics are crap.

How?

Focus on everything else: story, characters, uses of the engine, interactivity, humour, drama, something we haven't seen yet.

Make use of the engine -- and bugger the graphics.

Just draw the crude stick figures, butr make the game interesting.

I'd rather play a fun and exciting game with stick figures than a dull games with beautiful graphics (Myst for example).

You say you're good with stories -- then tell your aforementioned original story in a game

I come here and ask for help (Snake suggested I do this), and I just get the same responses I get from anywhere else.

As stated, the choice is yours.

But don't winge on here just because people don't like your idea -- You asked for advice, be prepared to take it.

We can't just appease you and say, "Hey brilliant idea".



If my whole post sounded harsh, it's nothing personal -- you sound like a guy with a lot of energy and very willing to devote it to an adventure.

But devote it to something more worthwhile than a 13-chapter game based on a Hanna-Barberra cartoon.

[Nellie]

If you want to recruit an artist to work on your game, you'll have to supply them with lots of details about that game.

Make a thorough design document which lays out the entire story, puzzles, descriptions of the backgrounds, etc.  Perhaps you could make a version of your game in AGS using placeholder graphics (stick figures and such) to show it all in action (and show that you have the programming ability), then replace them later.

When you show that you have the capability and stamina to finish all the non-graphic work on your own, people will be more willing to help you.  That's if they like your ideas of course.

[TheYak]

Even if you can't draw, that's no reason to feel you have to go with a game idea that will let you rip graphics from a show.  It will be immensely difficult to do any kind of graphic-ripping from the TV show and have it look decent in a game.  I agree that i'd rather play a game with crappy graphics and a good plot line than play one the other way around.  

As an experiment to break into the game, why not just try doing the Pirates of.....  for the first couple episodes of the series?  Just make the puzzles the recruiting of other characters and discovery/acquisition of items needed to start this quest.  If it turns out okay, then think about making it an introductory section to the rest.  BTW, if you're a friend of Snake's I think he could do graphics passible enough to do a game with if he's willing.

[David533]

Snake already told me that he's too busy to help me with either game. He told me that he wouldn't mind helping, but he's too busy to do so at the moment, because of his games.

[Snake]

Yes, you're right. DG's giving some great advice (aswell as everyone else), why not take it? I keep telling you over and over, man. Practice in paint, post pics in the critics lounge. Everyone here is here to help you. Stop taking everything the wrong way.

--EDIT--
I can see where this 13 treasures thing is possible. Just as long as the missions aren't very long, but long enough. Maybe the main character can travel from world to world and they all can interlock somehow, like maybe something you need for one world could be in another but you can't get it until something else is finished....something like that
I think it would be a cool game.

--EDIT 2--
Shouldn't this be in the general AGS shit chat forum?
(that's where I told you to post it, Dave.)


--Snake

[Captain Mostly]

First you say you can't draw, then you say you can draw stick men! THAT sounds like a contradiction in terms to me!!!

Just draw it baddly for mum's sake! GET ON WITH IT!