Well, AGS 3.0 is getting closer to release now, and as I've mentioned before I'd like to include some additional popular templates as part of the main AGS zip file.
So, I'd like feedback on which templates people think should be included. I'll then check with the template authors to make sure they're happy to have their template included, and voila!
As a starting point, I think it'd be good to include some sort of lucasarts/MI style template, and some sort of verb-coin type template.
I agree. In addition to the Monkey Island 2 / Fate of Atlantis system I think we should include a Dig style system too. Full screen 320x200 background art with a non invasive (i) button to launch the inventory/mousemode interface.
I would also love to see a more age specific interface. I've always thought Loom was a great system for children who don't fully understand the A-typical Monkey Island verb-bar interface. Instead of notes on a wooden staff, a few simple icons for look, use, grab and talk would be fitting along with, like loom, an icon based hotspot indicator that fades in and out at the bottom-right hand corner of the screen.
I'm no template writer but I've managed to come up with a similar interface for my game that, in my opinion, takes the cake over the old systems. It shouldn't be too hard for a programmer.
EDIT: To shed more light on this topic, I believe we need new class systems in addition to the classic MI2/FOA interfaces. We should be experimenting to the best of our ability, especially with AGS 2.8 close on the horizon.
Cheers,
Paul.
The Beyond A Steel Sky template should be in. It's a nice, easy to use and easy to customise one. And the left-click-look, right-click-use style's not too unpopular, too.
QuoteThe Beyond A Steel Sky template should be in.
I agree there.
One cool template I forgot to mention was a pop-up system similar to the sierra style interfaces however at the bottom of the screen with a cool flick back animation along with a fade in. To give you a visual example:
http://www.shuugouteki.net/paul/Movies/example.html (http://www.shuugouteki.net/paul/Movies/example.html)
Cheers,
Paul.
I would like all these templates, especially the LucasArts and Verbcoin ones, to have rudimentary keyboard support. This should encourage more people to use keyboard controls in their game.
I'd be happy to add these myself if necessary; it's just the matter of adding a dozen lines to the on_key_press() function, to call interface_click() or character[EGO].MoveDirect() based on which key is hit.
Aside for that, you're welcome to include the MegaVerb GUI (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=27206.0), if people are interested in that.
Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 25/09/2007 23:38:40
As a starting point, I think it'd be good to include some sort of lucasarts/MI style template, and some sort of verb-coin type template.
Good idea! If you're interested, you can use my verb-coin module (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=27309.20)
, which Dualnames has altered a little (see http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32398.0)
No ready-to-use template, though. (I encourage all that are interested to make one)
A template that incorporates SteveMcCrea's Panorama module might go down well.
My alien roger template is fully compatible with 2.8.
QuoteMy alien roger template is fully compatible with 2.8.
Nice, ProgZmax! Do you have a link?
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: Electroshokker on Fri 28/09/2007 12:12:40
Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 25/09/2007 23:38:40
As a starting point, I think it'd be good to include some sort of lucasarts/MI style template, and some sort of verb-coin type template.
Good idea! If you're interested, you can use my verb-coin module (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=27309.20)
, which Dualnames has altered a little (see http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32398.0)
No ready-to-use template, though. (I encourage all that are interested to make one)
I'll drink to that. Thanks, Tom
http://members.cox.net/progzmax/Alien_Roger.rar
I think that is the most recent version I made, subspark.
Well thats fantastic ProgZMax. Did you draw those sprites yourself? Good art man bravo!
Monkey Island and Fate of Atlantis classic scumm template would be great! I would really really like to see it included in new AGS! That would be fantastic.
I'd like a hardcoded ondoubleclick() event too!
Someone's working on an Open Source AGS game, maybe you could include that as a template.
Thanks for your feedback. Could people please post links to the threads of templates that they're suggesting, otherwise knowing me I'll go and add the wrong ones.
Sounds like the list of the standard ones that people want to see are:
BaSS
Monkey Island-style
Verb Coin
So the question is -- is there an AGS template for each of these, and if so could you guys please link to the one that is the most well-supported/widely-used for each of those?
QuoteGood idea! If you're interested, you can use my verb-coin module
No ready-to-use template, though. (I encourage all that are interested to make one)
Thanks for the offer. Would anyone have some time to create a ready-to-use version of this template?
There are plenty ready-to-use verbcoin templates around.
Yes, there's one of each, CJ. Can't recall the links at the moment, but if any of them are down I've got them all in my hard drive and can put any of them up.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 01/10/2007 23:19:17
Yes, there's one of each, CJ. Can't recall the links at the moment, but if any of them are down I've got them all in my hard drive and can put any of them up.
If any of them don't have basic keyboard support, I'd be happy to mod them for that.
I believe only the MI2/FOA template (the one most commonly used, and probably therefore the best :P) has them, Radiant. VerbCoin could use it, we just have to pick, there's a couple of VC templates. BaSS might not really need it.
But most templates will need other forms of modding - there's a 2.72 version of the MI2 template, thankfully, but even that might need some updating. The others - no question. Want to take a go at it, while you're at it? :)
BTW, maybe it'd be a good idea to add monkey_05_06's ScrollingDialog module. It adds many features to the dialog system.
Also, we have a "Broken Sword - Uncertainty Machine" template, and a Discworld one. If by BaSS people mean left-click-do-right-click-look, maybe these should also be taken into account.
No you can't add my module...it's indefinitely broken. While I indefinitely fix it.
Actually the latest version is horribly bugged because I was trying to store a large vector-based vector in a String...and it all got to be a mess. Dynamically sized arrays should fix the issues though I would have to contine working on it again. I got off on a tangent about implementing regex functions and then...other random things.
I think I actually did get the majority of the "core" of the dialog system back up and running in 2.8 with dynamic arrays...but I've put it down for a while...life's been getting to me. Now if only there were some way to just end this whole 'life' thing and focus solely on scripting.... 8)
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Tue 02/10/2007 08:59:21
If by BaSS people mean left-click-do-right-click-look, maybe these should also be taken into account.
My FastGame template uses that. And it's pretty too. And I can patch it to use Roger, Guybrush, you name it - if necessary. (right now it's Ted McBinky for obvious reasons). It wasn't released before because I am one lazy ass.
http://misendeavour.com/getfile.php?file=fsi-fastgame.agt (http://misendeavour.com/getfile.php?file=fsi-fastgame.agt)
Quote from: Cinfa on Mon 01/10/2007 12:54:43
I'd like a hardcoded ondoubleclick() event too!
I place another vote for this!
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32575.msg421019#msg421019
SlideShow Module. Include that.
I realize this is not a template, but I got some enthousiastic messages about the Font Editor in the past few months. Seems people are still using it a lot. It's only 50 kb or thereabouts, so feel free to include it if you think it's helpful.
Quote from: Radiant on Wed 03/10/2007 23:30:11
I realize this is not a template, but I got some enthousiastic messages about the Font Editor in the past few months. Seems people are still using it a lot. It's only 50 kb or thereabouts, so feel free to include it if you think it's helpful.
I'd vote for that. Also some of Akumayos Module.
Quote from: Jim "Dualnames" Span on Wed 03/10/2007 22:26:52
SlideShow Module. Include that.
I don't want to go overboard here and start including modules as well. Templates are important to include in the AGS distribution because they're the first thing that people see when they start the editor. Modules can always be downloaded and added later on.
I agree there. I'm working on a template CJ. IF I can find a programmer willing to tie some ends on it then I will upload it for everybody.
Cheers fellers,
Paul.
Oh.damn stupid me. I thought it was for modules.
Quote from: Pumaman on Mon 01/10/2007 20:37:23
QuoteGood idea! If you're interested, you can use my verb-coin module
No ready-to-use template, though. (I encourage all that are interested to make one)
Thanks for the offer. Would anyone have some time to create a ready-to-use version of this template?
Ah what the heck. AGS 3.0's got enough new features and options that could REALLY come in handy for my game anyways. And I gotta learn to use it sometime.
I'll use the old MI3 template graphics and whip up a brand new Scumm Verbcoin Gui Template for use with AGS 3.0
There's a couple of features I think every game should have - speed slider, music volume slider, sound volume slider, speech volume slider (if available), and gamma adjust slider.
It'd be quick and simple enough to edit the "default game" template to add a Control Panel GUI that did all this. I now pose the question, would it be worth it?
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Sun 21/10/2007 09:38:50
I now pose the question, would it be worth it?
The things you suggest are useful to have, especially the gamma slider. It's some extra effort, but in my eyes, totally worth it.
I am no scripting genius, but was able to create a control panel GUI with all the things you mention; volume sliders, gamma slider, even a 3-slider-set to change the speech font colour. What I consider a hindrance is that it would have to be a pretty generic one, and I wager few people will go the extra mile and customise it...
So, it would be worth having, but it would also mean another generic GUI that baffles newcomers.
Like you said, it's very easy to make, and always a welcome addition - but not everyone bothers to make one, more's the pity. People who want to go an extra mile should have a breeze costumizing it - if I make it simple enough, all they have to do is use graphics and reposition controls. With a couple of commands like "if the game has speech disabled or has no speech pack then disable the Voice slider" it might be just flexible enough. Hopefully, this way it won't baffle anyone ( ;) ) because it's there, at the press of a button (say, F1 and the "About" icon in the default iconbar), and they don't even have to do anything, it'll be there and do its job.
Ok then, I'll take care of it. Volume and gamma sliders, an "about" box and "play load quit save" buttons should be enough. When it's done maybe CJ will use it as the new default one.
While we're at it, I could also add a few debug functions, like moving the character to an X-Y position in a screen, or adding/removing a specific inventory item instead of the whole thing. Think it'd be worth it?
EDIT - There we are, a generic control panel. http://rapidshare.com/files/64115687/Default_Game_2.agt.html
Quote from: Electroshokker on Sun 21/10/2007 09:34:58
Ah what the heck. AGS 3.0's got enough new features and options that could REALLY come in handy for my game anyways. And I gotta learn to use it sometime.
I'll use the old MI3 template graphics and whip up a brand new Scumm Verbcoin Gui Template for use with AGS 3.0
Thanks!
QuoteEDIT - There we are, a generic control panel. http://rapidshare.com/files/64115687/Default_Game_2.agt.html
Nice work, Rui! If you don't mind I'll make that the new Default Game in AGS 3.
My pleasure and my honor. :)
Nice work with the template!
I think, how feasible would it be to put all the code from game_start into a separate function and just call it from within game_start to keep the event handling function in question clean, similar to how show_inventory_window is used?
I think it would be less confusive for beginners, should they want to add their own code on game_start (maybe a couple of lines) but see there is already plenty of code there.
:)
Sure. Good idea, too. I never think of those things myself... ;) Will correct it now.
Looking good. All doubt removed, Rui, go for it. ;)
Quote from: Pumaman on Sun 21/10/2007 14:16:18
Quote from: Electroshokker on Sun 21/10/2007 09:34:58
Ah what the heck. AGS 3.0's got enough new features and options that could REALLY come in handy for my game anyways. And I gotta learn to use it sometime.
I'll use the old MI3 template graphics and whip up a brand new Scumm Verbcoin Gui Template for use with AGS 3.0
Thanks!
see http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32745.0
It's done!
Heh, didn't expect so many positive responses for one of those "anyone can do it but no one had thought of it yet" things. ;D
I've done that bit of tidying up, Scorpiorus, but before I upload I'd just like to ask again, this time a bit more seriously (i.e., not hypothetically):
I took the liberty of adding this to on_key_press, at the end:
if (keycode==23 && game.debug_mode) player.PlaceOnWalkableArea; //Ctrl-W, move to walkable area
It's very handy when teleporting around in debugging. So - is there anyone else that might be useful in the default game, without going overboard? F'rinstance, I could script a couple more debug functions that might be useful (if anyone still used GlobalInts, a debug command to get and set them would be a must). But something like scripting a double_click might be too specific and unfitting for the default game.
You know, while we're at it... is the default template ok as is? I've made one change, I can make more...
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Sun 21/10/2007 16:33:09
Heh, didn't expect so many positive responses for one of those "anyone can do it but no one had thought of it yet" things. ;D
Egg of Columbus, for sure. And the Move To Walkable is a good thought.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Sun 21/10/2007 16:33:09It's very handy when teleporting around in debugging.
Yeah, I too think that one is surely handy to have.
QuoteSo - is there anyone else that might be useful in the default game, without going overboard?
You know, while we're at it... is the default template ok as is? I've made one change, I can make more...
Yep indeed, we should probably keep it balanced -- add some really necessary things but keep from bloating the default template's global script with advanced (or not so commonly used) stuff. Again just try not to confuse people having no or little experience with AGS and its scripting language.
Game options GUI is really necessary. Additional debug features may come in handy but the question is how much would that bloat the global script? If they are added, a reasonable idea would probably be to put them into a script module, because debugging features may be used frequenlty but their code changed infrequently. It still may be included into the template as a script module, though.
Double-click handler seems like a candidate for a separate script module. Can't say for sure whether or not it would be useful for the default template to have.
Ok, no point insisting. :)
http://rapidshare.com/files/64251819/Default_Game_2_2.agt.html
One more thing - the previous version, I had AGS disable gamma and speech controls if they weren't available for use. What I'd meant to do, and did now, was to actually turn them off.
If they're just disabled, they still show, but it won't do any good because they won't be used.
If they're turned off, it could leave a gap in the GUI.
Is there a best option?
Does there exist a good Text Parser template? Particularly one that still has available mouse support? I think that's something that would be good to add.
My game which I built the interface from scratch has a built in text parser along with the standard point and click interface. I just wish there was a simple way to extract the interface out of the game now that I have all the rooms and graphics added in.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 22/10/2007 01:27:00
If they're just disabled, they still show, but it won't do any good because they won't be used.
If they're turned off, it could leave a gap in the GUI.
Is there a best option?
I suppose the best option would be to include two versions of the GUI (easy - export the single GUI to a file, then import it again, and you'll have two). Delete the gamma slider from one, and rearrange the controls to degapify.
While you're editing this anyway (apologies for my hobby horse) could you add rudimentary keyboard control? Something like the below would, I think, be useful to beginners.
int pdir;
function moveplayer (int dx, int dy) {
if ((dx == 0 && dy == 0) || (pdir == dx + 3 * dy && character[EGO].walking)) {
pdir = 0;
StopMoving (EGO);
} else {
pdir = dx + 3 * dy;
MoveCharacterStraight (EGO, character[EGO].x + 500 * dx, character[EGO].y + 500 * dy);
}
}
function on_key_press (int keycode) {
if (IsGamePaused ()) return;
if (keycode == 371) moveplayer (-1, -1);
if (keycode == 372) moveplayer ( 0, -1);
if (keycode == 373) moveplayer ( 1, -1);
if (keycode == 375) moveplayer (-1, 0);
if (keycode == 376) moveplayer ( 0, 0);
if (keycode == 377) moveplayer ( 1, 0);
if (keycode == 379) moveplayer (-1, 1);
if (keycode == 380) moveplayer ( 0, 1);
if (keycode == 381) moveplayer ( 1, 1);
if (keycode == 'W') interface_click (COMMANDBAR, 0);
if (keycode == 'L') interface_click (COMMANDBAR, 1);
if (keycode == 'U') interface_click (COMMANDBAR, 2);
if (keycode == 'T') interface_click (COMMANDBAR, 3);
if (keycode == 'I') interface_click (COMMANDBAR, 4);
}
I've always thought a default game with some type of generic, empty room would be a very welcome addition. ;D
Why is an AGS 3.0 template using interface_click calls?
Re keyboard movement - there's a keyboard movement module already, maybe that should be added in the default game template?
Thing is, it's hard to tell where the default game stops and where the demo game begins. There's no such thing as a generic room, for instance - all rooms are unique, and if we want to showcase something we use a demo game, not a default template. And if we want an empty room, we just right-click Rooms and "add new room". ;)
But I do believe I will add your other suggestion, Radiant. :) And if you feel keyboard movement really is necessary, say so, and I'll use your code, which is much simpler than the keyboard movement module - though the module does provide with the option to "move upon tap" or "move upon pressing"...
SSH - You know, darn good question. Maybe for extreme compatibility - wasn't Gilbot, f'rinstance, still using 2.62 because of the DOS engine?
EDIT - Rich, re text parser, I do have a SQ2 template, which is also an AGI template. The code is a bit dated now, and some scripting should probably be redone, but it does work. You can take a look, if you like, and try it out, it should still be in freewebs.com/skimbleshanks/. You'll probably need 2.72 or earlier, though.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 22/10/2007 09:48:19There's no such thing as a generic room, for instance - all rooms are unique
I'm not wanting to showcase anything. I just want a compilable default template. I understand it's fairly easy to just create a new room but I'm a lazy prat who actually wants something to look at other than just a solid black background. :=
Quote from: rich on Mon 22/10/2007 02:18:03
Does there exist a good Text Parser template? Particularly one that still has available mouse support? I think that's something that would be good to add.
Does anyone else need that? I may give it a try.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 22/10/2007 09:48:19
Re keyboard movement - there's a keyboard movement module already, maybe that should be added in the default game template?
Yes, I think that would be a nice idea.
Moving the main character with the cursor arrows is only a nice extra - however, invoking the GUI by keyboard presses (W=walk, T=talk, etc) is
essential for LucasArts and VerbCoin GUIs (and a nice extra for Sierra ones). Hence, I would appreciate this being in the standard template. It's only a couple of lines, after all.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 22/10/2007 01:27:00
Ok, no point insisting. :)
http://rapidshare.com/files/64251819/Default_Game_2_2.agt.html
One more thing - the previous version, I had AGS disable gamma and speech controls if they weren't available for use. What I'd meant to do, and did now, was to actually turn them off.
If they're just disabled, they still show, but it won't do any good because they won't be used.
If they're turned off, it could leave a gap in the GUI.
Is there a best option?
Thanks for your efforts, Rui, but I think we should at least ensure that the default template compiles successfully :D
GlobalScript.asc(91): Error (line 91): '(' expected
Anyway, my vote would be just to turn them off and leave a gap. This is only the default template, after all, and having it start moving controls around or showing an alternate GUI is getting too complicated for that, I'd say.
Gah... I make changes and I forget to test them. Go me! :=
And ok, I'll make 'em leave the gap, include the keyboard movement control and the regular shortcuts toot sweet. Aceeding to monkey, there *could* an initial starting room with a small pre-set walkable area - nice for testing GUIs, just compile and run. Still a black screen, though, monkey.
Barring anything, that should be it. Give me a couple of minutes to get settled, as I've just gotten home, and it should be ready soon.
EDIT - Had a thought, let me know - pre-script mouse wheel to change modes (most people who use the mouse wheel will use it for that), and the middle button for making the player WALK to the destination - Wretched did that in some game, using the middle button as a shortcut for using WALK, and I can't tell you how much I wished everyone else did that.
So, ok if I include these two? I mean, the keyboard movement module is already in...
EDIT 2 - Ok, then, guess not. Right, here it goes then - http://rapidshare.com/files/64742163/Default_Game_2_3.agt.html
Double post! Yay!
Trust me to forget a speed slider. :P Here it is.
http://rapidshare.com/files/65187124/Default_Game_24.agt.html
Nice work Rui, looks good!
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Mon 22/10/2007 20:23:42
EDIT - Had a thought, let me know - pre-script mouse wheel to change modes (most people who use the mouse wheel will use it for that), and the middle button for making the player WALK to the destination - Wretched did that in some game, using the middle button as a shortcut for using WALK, and I can't tell you how much I wished everyone else did that.
So, ok if I include these two? I mean, the keyboard movement module is already in...
EDIT 2 - Ok, then, guess not. Right, here it goes then - http://rapidshare.com/files/64742163/Default_Game_2_3.agt.html
I like the mouse wheel idea. :) Maybe thrown in a Restart button in the Control Panel as well.
Ask and you shall receive!
http://rapidshare.com/files/66106219/Default_Game_3.agt.html
Added the mousewheel support, the middle button thing (hey, no one even uses it, like, ever. :P At least let it be a nice shortcut), and the restart option. RESTART gave rise to a ConfirmRestart GUI, which is also very considerate of the game's maker to provide. ;)
Hopefully, this should be the very last thing. We now have a default game template that covers pretty much all the basic things a game should have, as well as some non-basic but rather essential other things.
Very nice work. :) We all know how every game developer tends to be a bit lazy about implementing standards, but we're even lazier at removing the default stuff :P so this will help out a lot.
The Restart GUI should also provide a starting point for anyone looking to make their custom Confirm dialogs.
Thanks Rui -- I've slightly modified your template (basically just changing the wrapping on the comments in the script so that they're readable without scrolling right-left all the time) and included it in beta 15.
Electroshokker's verb coin template is also included.
Thanks to both of you, and Misj, for your help with this.
No worries. Glad to have been of help! ;D