Hey, everyone. I recently downloaded "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" and I love it. I'm new to the AGS scene, but I was thinking that it would be great to allow online play. What I mean is, I think it would be great to play "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" online with a friend. It would just be two players and you could switch off. You could let your friend control the mouse until he gets tired, and then you could control the mouse. That way, while your friend is playing you could make some popcorn and have a coke while he's hard at work. When he gets stuck or tired, you could take control and he could relax a bit. There could be a chatbar or voice chat to allow communication between you and your friend. What do you think?
What's the point? Just invite your friend over at your place and play on one computer. Though if you insist in playing online, there are programs that let other people access your computer via the internet. And voice chat could be handled by Skype or a similiar program.
Technically multiplayer support would be possible, but I don't think we ever managed to come up with a decent gameplay for multiplayer adventures.
There was quite a long discussion about it here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=12421.0
Quote from: Pablo on Sun 02/12/2007 19:21:36
What's the point? Just invite your friend over at your place and play on one computer. Though if you insist in playing online, there are programs that let other people access your computer via the internet. And voice chat could be handled by Skype or a similiar program.
The point is I live in Antofagasta, Chile and no one speaks English here, so they aren't going to enjoy playing a game in English even I sit by them and translate every word to Spanish. My friend who likes these kinds of games is in the U.S.
Thanks for the link, Pumaman. I'll check it out.
Quote from: kqgamer on Sun 02/12/2007 18:53:07
What I mean is, I think it would be great to play "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" online with a friend.
Thank you :)
I think what you're suggesting is already possible, using Windows's remote desktop interface. That is, if given privileges, your friend should be able to log in to your computer via the internet, and "control" it from there, while you watch on your screen. Help desks sometimes use this technology.
I think only Windows XP Pro has the server side of this, but you can also use the freeware VNC
Remote Desktop won't allow two people to watch the screen because the local user gets kicked out as soon as someone logs in remotely to the same account and vice versa (afaik).
VNC would work fine but unfortunately won't send sound to the remote computer.
The good thing is that you can chat via notepad :)
QuoteI don't think we ever managed to come up with a decent gameplay for multiplayer adventures.
Darn I missed this thread. I always imagined a good multiplayer game would be something like Day of the Tentacle. 3 people join across a network to take control of 3 different characters. They need each other's different skills or times to get past the game.
I can't believe no ones done this yet. Cooperative gameplay is a late trend that should have been commonplace in the late 90s.
Paul.
Cooperative gameplay may be a trend, but imagine this sceranio.
Two players, need to do say 3 puzzles each before the story can advance.
You're a whizz at adventure games, and finish quickly. You're teamed with an imbecile, who has taken ages to finish the first of his/her three puzzles.
You're starting to get bored, so they check a walkthrough to solve the second puzzle.
You're expecting the story to move on, only to find out they've taken a break for dinner.
Cooperative gameplay works when the games are designed for it. Point and Clicks are designed more as an interactive movie. Giving two people remotes for the VCR would just end in chaos.
Ok, this was well said. But nevertheless except from people that want to play online games there are people that find more things in online games, like talking about a game you like, chit chating and all that staff.. Imagine Reality on The Norm Online for example.. I'd like to be part in that.. I have a very good idea about online adventure games the problem is that the TCp ip plugin is way too complicated...
And outdated. I dont think it would work with this version of AGS anyway.
Cooperative gameplay is possible in adventure games. You make a sort of Spy Vs Spy type game.
It is possible. The only thing is that when you connect to an AAS (AGS adventure Server), you would need a way for AGS to update its content and scripts. EG: if you created a new room, or added characters or edited a script and dialog.
Alternatively, you can make games for witch hunts, And mazes. Or you can even make a giant AGS chat community with an AGS online. There are options for making online games with AGS.
How easy it would be for Chris is another story though...
QuoteGiving two people remotes for the VCR would just end in chaos
While that scenario might occur, I disagree with your statement entirely.
It doesn't matter what game your playing, if your team mates arnet pulling their weight then the game is less enjoyable.
This is an unavoidable downside to playing with people you don't know over the internet but the issue is not one that should deprive any game of cooperative gameplay mechanics.
The reality is, people who play new games online learn as they go so if your the poor fellow stuck on a puzzle, and your team mates have reached their 'checkpoint' they can offer a friendly hint to you over chat or the game might decide when a player needs a kick in the right direction. This is of course an ideal situation that can be reinforced by strong game design.
For example: multiple difficulty levels.
Player 1 might have chosen 'easy' puzzles, the second might choose moderate and the third player might decide that difficult puzzles are more appropriate. If your game puzzles are constructed at their most complicated level, they could be dropped back in complexity to accomodate the other difficulty levels.
A Point & Click adventure has never been graced with such design but it's certainly possible and well deserved.
Cheers,
Paul.
QuoteA Point & Click adventure has never been graced with such design
Difficulty level design? System Shock is not pure adventure, but it did have an option to ease down on puzzles. So did Wild Wild West. At any rate, MI2 and MI3 definitely had them.
Renal's scenario makes sense in games like Day of the Tentacle. In games like Maniac Mansion, however, it COULD work, because players aren't dependent on other players - they actually have to solve the thing together and work as a team. A team of 2 rather than a team of 3, but that's a design issue.
QuoteDifficulty level design? MI2 and MI3 definitely had them.
No I meant design in general. The cooperative gameplay, the carefully though out puzzles.
QuoteRenal's scenario makes sense in games like Day of the Tentacle
Day of the Tentacle would be an ideal game for cooperative gameplay because players are indeed reliant on each other to solve puzzles with their own unique powers. Be that stuck in different times or possessing unique skills like in Maniac Mansion.
The same idea can be applied across the board.
It seems the only thing holding back cooperative gameplay is the notion that people would abuse it
Suffice to say there are by far worse ways to abuse a computer game and online gameplay than to be slow at solving puzzles.
These issues are present in modern 3d shooters where a newcomer will join a server expecting it to play like it's single player campaign only to be impossibly blasted in the face by fast twitch hardcorer's who clearly out-skill the majority. Again, these issues are about but they are not impossible to solve.
Classic Point & Click Adventures represent an era before mistrust and abuse shrouded the internet. Why anybody would want to abuse online cooperative entertainment in general is a mystery best solved by computer sociologists.
Our job is to make great games that the majority can enjoy. ;)
EDIT: Does anybody know if the TCIP Plug-in works for AGS 3.0? Or has something better been developed so far?
Paul.
Quote from: subspark on Fri 14/12/2007 12:10:22
It seems the only thing holding back cooperative gameplay is the notion that people would abuse it
I don't think that's the case. Rather, it would seem to be exceedingly difficult to design a game so that (1) the players are dependent enough on one another that they aren't simply playing a different game each, and (2) the players are independent enough so that one's lack of progress doesn't hamper another's.
It would seem that adventure games don't mesh well with this. I suspect the only way to persuade people that this is a viable approach, is by designing a game that does it.
Radiant is right, a lot of people have considered this before, many times over the years, but I'm yet to see a convincing cooperative design. Even if we assume trustworthy players will agree to play an adventure game for some hours, save together and continue together, it's still tricky.
Imagine three players are doing DOTT style puzzles. How do you avoid all the time people are sitting around with unwinnable puzzles waiting for other people to do their part? And how do you make this feel different to a single player game when the puzzles are mostly solved apart from each other?
If you want coop then seperating players like that would seem to defeat the purpose. So people have tried designing puzzles that require more than one player to solve together, either requiring two or more actions to be performed at once, or giving different characters different abilities (consider Foster and Joey pairing up at times in BASS). This is cooperative, and possible, but tough to do, and it doesn't work if only one person wants to play. There are a lot of issues in AGS that would make it technically difficult too, but of course that could be overcome if there's a concerted effort.
If someone has come up with a great workable design for a multiplayer game then they should post it for discussion. I wouldn't mind writing multiplayer support, but there seems to be little point at present.
QuoteDay of the Tentacle would be an ideal game for cooperative gameplay
QuoteImagine three players are doing DOTT style puzzles. How do you avoid all the time people are sitting around with unwinnable puzzles waiting for other people to do their part? And how do you make this feel different to a single player game when the puzzles are mostly solved apart from each other?
Agree with Scotch, but the biggest argument for me is still: in MM, all three players were exploring the same place, and could communicate. In DoTT, they're stranded on time zones. There's no way they can communicate, and in a multiplayer experience true to the game, neither could the players. Plus, each player would experience only one third of the game.
How infuriating can it be, to think that you've done all you could in a time zone and wait for someone else to drop the item you NEED right down on the john, when that person has no reason to think you might need that item?
I'd say the type of game suited best is a two-player Gobliiins, like Gobliins 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/gobliins-2-the-prince-buffoon/screenshots).
Restrict the players to one, maybe two rooms, make both switch rooms if one of them exits, allow them to chat, give them clear objectives.
It's the only adventure game I can think of where a two-player online collaboration makes sense and/or enriches the gameplay.
The technical side should be manageable; the first player runs the server game which acts on both user inputs (the second player's being sent over the line) while the client game updates the screen using RawDrawn screenshots (if that's fast enough) or just object and char positions and their current sprites. That should avoid any command collisions since only one game is gonna handle everything VNC-style.
I think you've all made valid points and your worst case scenarios for cooperative gameplay of this kind are not unreasonable. The truth of the matter is, as Radiant has expressed is if theres going to be a paradigm shift in Point & Click Cooperative gameplay, somebody is just going to have to do it.
Theres nothing I can see here that cannot be accounted for and carefully designed to avoid a detrimental effect on multiplayer gameplay.
I assure you, this can be done gentlemen, it simply has never been done.
Cheers,
Paul.
Coming back to the original question, I think a good way you and your friend from the US can play the same SINGLE PLAYER game, and just take it in turns, is to send the save-game file back and forth to each other. Or have a constant synchronization of the save-game file. All this other stuff about multiplayer adventure gaming with DOTT etc. just won't work. Adventure games are meant to be played single player - where there is one protagonist, and the player plays as him/her. I honestly can't think of any way that multi-player would work, but I'm not saying there isn't a way... I just haven't found one yet.
QuoteAdventure games are meant to be played single player
This is simply not true. Cooperative adventures range from titles such as LOTR: Return of the King to mods such as SvenCoop where team mates must progress through admittedly quirky but clever puzzles in order to continue on. Replace your bow and arrow or glock with an inventory and allow your characters different roles for each player to choose from and you have the basic framework for a true cooperative adventure.
QuoteI honestly can't think of any way that multi-player would work
Did you read my earlier post? I tried to lay a few examples out on the table already. :)
QuoteI'm not saying there isn't a way... I just haven't found one yet.
Well for starters, I suggest you play some of the existing cooperative adventure games out on the market. You can be sure they are in the few but the more cooperative games that reach our market the more popular the idea will become. Unfortunately and surprising for some, cooperative gameplay is still considered a new idea by the majority of developers. It's a ridiculous combination of conservative thinking and copy-cat marketing that has kept cooperative gameplay at a seeping rate. This is attitude is evaporating as more and more developers explore non-competitive multiplayer.
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, Gears of War turned out to be a rather large wake up call to developers who were overly cautious about whether or not their money was worth spending on developing cooperative campaigns.
I can guarantee you that this expediential change in attitude will inevitably reach the adventure market. The one we know best that is.
For us, it's either a mountain to conquer or a waiting game.
Paul.
Sorry for bringing up an old post but I figured it would be better to use an old post that basically states what I am trying to accomplish rather then make a new post.
I would like to make a Multi-User Dungeon/Online adventure game.
I already have everything planned out in my head of how this would all work but the problem is I don't really know where to begin.
I was hoping to use AGS as my GUI, and implementing my MUDlib script into the game.
Basically making a MUD with really neat interface of graphics and game play.
Also make it possible to use the keyboard (for commands of what you want your character to do) as well as the mouse for scrolling over objects, looking around and/or picking things up, and moving the character around on screen (just like in the spirit of all the good old classic adventure games).
My question is...
Would all this be possible?
I am sure I could work out the entire game and graphics aspect but the Online implementing is something I am not familiar with and don't know how or where to start with that.
Perhaps using RAKNET (http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/) ?
Again I apologize if this post is in anyway an inconvenience and ask that you please direct me to the proper thread/post/
Thanks
- Skitzo
It depends on exactly what you want to do. I would expect that it would make sense to take the guts of an existing MUD client, and either port it into AGS, or run it as a plugin.
Several MUD systems exist, and most of those are open-source. Google up DikuMud or CircleMud and go from there.
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 28/03/2008 01:06:06
Several MUD systems exist, and most of those are open-source. Google up DikuMud or CircleMud and go from there.
I googled DikuMud and got an error on their site but did read about them in Wiki, along with CircleMud.
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 28/03/2008 00:39:54
It depends on exactly what you want to do. I would expect that it would make sense to take the guts of an existing MUD client, and either port it into AGS, or run it as a plugin.
How would I port it to AGS?
What about instead of using the mud script that I have I just start building the game and while doing that write it into the code of the game. That way I wouldn't have to use any type of MUDing scripts at all. Would that work better then trying to port it or make a plug-in for it?
This isn't my original idea and the MUD is out there to play. I simply would like some kind of better game play then Descriptive reading about what a room looks like. So I would fill that portion in with an actual picture while still being an adventure game that the AGS program is meant for. :)
Take the text base commands like that in a MUD game and implement them into a point-and-click adventure game while also being an online game ;D
I have a feeling I will have to build my own engine. I was hoping to use a program as simple as AGS to help me out but if I am going to be coding 3 separate things into one then I might as well start from scratch. eh? Anyone play around with 'Game Maker'? I hear you can implement online play into your games with the pro version.
-------
UPDATE:
I thank you all for the replies. Upon further searching of the forum board I have found a wealth of info that just might help in my undertaking.
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this great forum.
- Skitzo
Whether if [multiplayer/cooperative gaming] is valid or not, I'm interested in your findings, since one of the items in my to-do list is just searching for alternatives.
I would appreciate if you could post your findings here whenever you have the time, or PM me.
Good luck!
Yes, that would be good. I'd like to make an AGS online game. i just find the plugin suckable.
It really depends on what you are looking for (Just search the board).
I searched for
Graphic programs (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32234.0)
Graphical Text Based Adventure Games (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32234.0)
and
2.5D Games (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=16362.0)
Along with a few google searches for alternatives to AGS, such as Game Maker 7 (http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker) which has multi-player support built into the PRO version but still needs coding to actually work. I even looked into PYTHON (http://www.python.org/) (good simple language with powerful results) and RAKNET (http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/).
My idea is to make an online MUD using AGS for fine graphical interface and to actually SEE, not read, where you are in the game while still using the keyboard and mouse to interact with the surrounding (keyboard=Commands) Also be able to see other characters that are online and what they are wearing and how they customized their character.
(Something like URU LIVE, that implements /sit, /dance, /wave commands, would be my ultimate dream game but with a Broken Sword 1&2 look and feel.)
Steps should be as followed.
1. Story/setting for game.
2. Creating all necessary components for game.
Such as backgrounds, characters, animation, text, voices, ect...
3. Compiling everything into a playable game.
4. Implementing online code.
5. Online play testing of game.
6. Final release.
If anyone wants to team up to help make such an online game that would be great.
Not to mention how the game would progress faster then if one single person tried to do it alone.
Need List:
1. Programmers (coders).
2. Graphic design and Animation.
3. Story board editors (Whole Team Effort)
4. Text and translation.
5. Music, SoundFX and voices.
I think I got every angle (feel free to add).
It's a massive undertaking, just make sure you ask yourself if you have that kind of time to devote it to the game.
Hmmm, since this is about team recruitment, I wonder if I shall move this post to the AGS Gen., so it can be merged with the Recruit a Team thread (or even, move a portion of the thread to AGS Gen. for discussions). Some of the involvements maybe a bit advanced and technical though, so I haven't made up my mind yet.
My Mistake. How do you delete posts?
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 19:15:52
It really depends on what you are looking for (Just search the board).
Sorry if I was not clear enough, actually I'm interested in what you may find related to implementing multiplayer/cooperative gaming INTO ags.
I already use AGS, and I'm already programming my game, I just don't know how I would make my game multiplayer/cooperative, whenever I want to do it. My game is singleplayer now, but in the future, I have plans to make it multiplayer/cooperative, and when that happens, it's going to be online.
I'm aware of the TCP/IP plugin, but that's a bit old and 'stalled', so if there's anything new/active, I would really like to know, and I guess the community would also benefit from the info.
[]s
I haven't really gotten around to the online aspect but I am sure a lot of time spent reading will fix that.
I'm sorry I don't have any thing to offer :( I am quite the newbie with all this as of right now.
Like I said above. Try checking out Raknet or python.
I don't know how complicated programming the code for 1 game to sync between 2 computers is..
The thing I would worry about implementing into the game first would be a wardrobe and character builder so everyone doesn't look the same online.
Again I apologize for not having anything this useful to contribute about what you are asking :(
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
Like I said above. Try checking out Raknet or python.
Thanks, I'll add RakNet to my stack.
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
I don't know how complicated programming the code for 1 game to sync between 2 computers is...
Well, I never coded an online game, but I can tell you there are a LOT of issues to think of. For starters, you need to choose between a server-based game or a distributed p2p game. Each one has their share of problems.
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
The thing I would worry about implementing into the game first would be a wardrobe and character builder so everyone doesn't look the same online.
I dont want to sound too harsh, but if you are going to code an online game, your first worry should be if players can play/interact well, then consider how the avatars are going to look like, because this is relatively straightforward to do.
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
Again I apologize for not having anything this useful to contribute about what you are asking :(
It seems to me that you are in a very early stage of your game, so take your time.
Actually, your decisions right now should be based on where you want to start from. If you choose AGS, you get yourself an engine. If you choose Python, you've got, well,
PyGame (http://www.pygame.org/) and Notepad.
Quote from: naltimari on Fri 04/04/2008 00:16:59
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
Like I said above. Try checking out Raknet or python.
Thanks, I'll add RakNet to my stack.
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
I don't know how complicated programming the code for 1 game to sync between 2 computers is...
Well, I never coded an online game, but I can tell you there are a LOT of issues to think of. For starters, you need to choose between a server-based game or a distributed p2p game. Each one has their share of problems.
Thanks for that insight (would most likely be on a server).
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
The thing I would worry about implementing into the game first would be a wardrobe and character builder so everyone doesn't look the same online.
I dont want to sound too harsh, but if you are going to code an online game, your first worry should be if players can play/interact well, then consider how the avatars are going to look like, because this is relatively straightforward to do.
Hmmm... Very true :) Guess I am just a nit-picker.[/i]
Quote from: skitzo on Thu 03/04/2008 22:24:30
Again I apologize for not having anything this useful to contribute about what you are asking :(
It seems to me that you are in a very early stage of your game, so take your time.
Actually, your decisions right now should be based on where you want to start from. If you choose AGS, you get yourself an engine. If you choose Python, you've got, well, PyGame (http://www.pygame.org/) and Notepad.
I was thinking of AGS or Game Maker 7 but I'm probably going to go with AGS since the knowledge base and friendly folks here seem much better. I Have known about this site for about 3-4 years now after searching the web for old P&CAGs and although I have only downloaded and played one game in that span I just somehow feel AGS is a better choice and now that I have some more free time to actually start thinking about production of a game I figured this would be a good as time as any to join the forums and root around for more insight on how to make a game.
Quote from: skitzo on Fri 04/04/2008 04:26:16
Thanks for that insight (would most likely be on a server).
In that case, you will need to code the server too... I dont know if RakNet provides a server, but it would be great...
Quote from: skitzo on Fri 04/04/2008 04:26:16
I'm probably going to go with AGS since the knowledge base and friendly folks here seem much better.
That's very true... :)
...and in the end we'll have some sort of AGSabbo to hang about. Great.
Quote from: naltimari on Fri 04/04/2008 16:12:02
Quote from: skitzo on Fri 04/04/2008 04:26:16
Thanks for that insight (would most likely be on a server).
In that case, you will need to code the server too... I dont know if RakNet provides a server, but it would be great...
I should have mentioned this earlier but RAKNET is what the people over at Multi-Theft Auto (//http://) used to bring GTA online.
I could help around scripting... so pm me if you want me on this.
Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 06/04/2008 22:24:42
I could help around scripting... so pm me if you want me on this.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
I am still trying to work somethings out with another game designer at the moment about copyright issues and blah blah blah...
I will probably post in the Gen section under the recruiting if/when all goes through and I am ready to begin production.
FYI. This will be a massive undertaking for the graphics department of this game
Thanks