Future AGS development

[Pumaman]

Would you decouple the compiler from the editor, in this case?

Well, initially I'm planning to release the C# editor code, but not the source for the Native C++ DLL which the editor uses; and since the compiler is part of the native DLL, the source code to that won't be released, to start with anyway.

[Ponch]

Well, initially I'm planning to release the C# editor code, but not the source for the Native C++ DLL which the editor uses; and since the compiler is part of the native DLL, the source code to that won't be released, to start with anyway.

I'm happy with whatever decision is made, so long as it assures the continued existence of AGS.

But if AGS becomes (semi) open source, will CJ hide his true middle name somewhere amidst those gazillion lines of code? Learning his true name may be the only thing that can avert the Mayan Apocalypse of 2012!

- Ponch

[Calin Leafshade]

I'm a little confused.

What use is the editor code if the compiler code is still closed?

because surely we cant actually change anything since the compiler still needs to understand what the editor does.

So we could rearrange editor controls and spruce up the editor but ultimately it wouldn't really improve AGS games in any way because the engine still needs to interpret the information in the same way.

Is that correct or am I misunderstanding the way the editor works?

[monkey0506]

The use of the editor code is pretty much the same as the editor plugin API..just with a lot..lot..lot more to it. It won't allow you to modify the way the engine (runtime) works, but there's a lot of functionality that could be added to the editor.

Even things in the script could potentially be handled by an editor code change. For example, you mentioned scripting templates. Just add a hook into the pre-compile game event to look through the scripts for defined templates and actual implications thereof, and create (on-the-fly) actual structures. So long as you could update the script in-memory after it is saved to disk during the compilation then you could make this viable.

Clearly this isn't as efficient for compile-time as actual scripting templates, but the point is that even the editor has the ability to change a lot of things. Take for example the fact that even with the new audio system, the speech system hasn't really changed at all. That too could be (to an extent) managed by modifications to the editor. In-editor displays of existing speech files, folder views for grouping, etc. could all be presented to the user, whilst ultimately providing the same end result for the compiled game as what already exists.

[xenogia]

Would you decouple the compiler from the editor, in this case?

Well, initially I'm planning to release the C# editor code, but not the source for the Native C++ DLL which the editor uses; and since the compiler is part of the native DLL, the source code to that won't be released, to start with anyway.

If you close source the native DLL wouldn't this be detrimental to using the editor on any other platform?

[Dualnames]

Well, initially I'm planning to release the C# editor code, but not the source for the Native C++ DLL which the editor uses; and since the compiler is part of the native DLL, the source code to that won't be released, to start with anyway.

I'm happy with whatever decision is made, so long as it assures the continued existence of AGS, and therefore Ponch can release his Barn Runner games (sorry I watched the awesome trailer again. And it was AWESOME!!)

EDIT: Man that trailer really makes it hard for me to keep me from drooling.

[monkey0506]

If you close source the native DLL wouldn't this be detrimental to using the editor on any other platform?

I think the fact that in 10 years CJ has not once put forward an effort to making the editor portable to Mac/Linux stands to show that portability of the editor is not something he considers priority. It was designated as an available option for others if the whole thing were to go fully OS, but again, this was other people saying it, not CJ.

I'm not against portability, I think it's great. But the majority of end-users are ultimately on Windows PCs, so I think if a better, more powerful AGS can be produced in favor of a more portable AGS..I'd take the power.

Saying that..I for some reason just really want to post this picture right now:

[xenogia]

What picture?

[Wonkyth]

It didn't appear for me first time either.
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/images/a-c/cdrrv1-04.jpg

[xenogia]

But all in all realistically for the engine to improve you have to either open source it.  Or give the code to a highly capable and motivated team of people.

Otherwise the whole thing would become more convulated than it needs to be.

Or worst case scenario the whole engine will cease to exist.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I dunno, I think even your modest 10% (6900?) figure is a great start for covering a full version number, but ultimately it's your choice.  Personally, I'd see any money coming in as pure profit considering all the work you've put in so far, but if that doesn't make it worth it to you then that's that.

Opening up the editor is a good start, though.  I reckon it wouldn't be difficult for me to alter room edit to display characters visually in the rooms and a few other tweaks I've been gunning for for awhile that I think would greatly improve the utility of the interface.  We'll just have to wait and see as far as direct engine improvements go; hopefully at some point you'll at least open it up to a group of people you trust.

[subspark]

Fantastic decision Chris! The possibilities here stir great excitement in me.
I basically feel like I'm unmarried again, back in the garage eating chicken pretzels and watching pron! Yeaah!

Sparks.

[Dualnames]

I think totally opening the code would make AGS and the forums a mess. Now the step-by-step opening of the code, will get us all the cool things. I mean look at some modules and plugins that were created throughout the years and imagine what kind of plugins or modules were abandoned because of some parts of the editor that were prohibited to public use. I think this is a bold step for AGS

"One left-click for man, an executable application for humanity"

[deadsuperhero]

I think totally opening the code would make AGS and the forums a mess.

Gitirious. Problem solved. 

But seriously, this is really cool. Lucky me, I'm learning C# and Mono bindings to GTK+, perhaps I could make use of a GTK# or Qt# AGS Editor some time in the future.

[xenogia]

I don't see how open-sourcing an application will make it a mess.  The GPLv3 license is as good as anything out there.  And there non-profit legal firms for open source projects that specifically protect the programmers of said application from GPL violations.

[BatWitch]

gahgahgahgahgahgahgah GIT is a nightmare to use for Windows users.

All that crazy baffling nonsense about keys and putty and SSH.


I think going open source would help AGS grow. The alternative is gloomy!

I would like to see an easier interface for AGS

For example, the way it handles visuals right now can be time consuming.
(Is there a way AGS can utilize a directory(folder) with all the visual elements of the game while in production mode? Right now it keeps all sprites inside one file and are inaccessible outside of AGS for editing.)

I hope this game engine will one day be able to create games like this (easily) too:

[GarageGothic]

For example, the way it handles visuals right now can be time consuming.  (Is there a way AGS can utilize a directory(folder) with all the visual elements of the game while in production mode? Right now it keeps all sprites inside one file and are inaccessible outside of AGS for editing.)

Seconded to the Nth degree - would also make it much easier to provide plugin support for other file formats (e.g. lossy image compression). Associations between Views, sprite numbers and relative image paths could be kept in an xml file or similar.

[xenogia]

gahgahgahgahgahgahgah GIT is a nightmare to use for Windows users.

All that crazy baffling nonsense about keys and putty and SSH.


I think going open source would help AGS grow. The alternative is gloomy!

I would like to see an easier interface for AGS

For example, the way it handles visuals right now can be time consuming.
(Is there a way AGS can utilize a directory(folder) with all the visual elements of the game while in production mode? Right now it keeps all sprites inside one file and are inaccessible outside of AGS for editing.)

I hope this game engine will one day be able to create games like this (easily) too:

Is that Ren'Py BatWitch?  

On a side note even the Wintermute source code can be downloaded and modified.  And if it is good enough the creator forks it into the main engine.  You just really need a project leader that looks over all the changes.

[monkey0506]

Seconded to the Nth degree - would also make it much easier to provide plugin support for other file formats (e.g. lossy image compression). Associations between Views, sprite numbers and relative image paths could be kept in an xml file or similar.

The associations you're talking about actually are already kept in XML in the Game.agf file. IIRC even the relative paths from the import are stored in place of what CJ described as a future "update sprite from source" option (I believe).

[BatWitch]

That was made in Visual Novelty. It is only in Beta right now, so it is a little unstable/crashy at times.


I wish that the scripting for AGS would become less programming-like too.

Maybe something a bit more English (newbie) friendly, such as:

AT inside_house

APPEAR from LEFT john_sad

John says "I wish I could go outside!"

REPLACE rainy_window sunny_window

John says "Hurray, it stopped raining!"

AT outside_house


Something like this would allow for longer games to be made too.