I wonder, now with the astounding popularity of the iPhone following the long awaited release of the Apple iPhone SDK, if we will see some kind of port to the device. I've got my hands on the SDK myself and it all seems very powerful yet surprisingly simple to work with. Do you think it is likely that somebody would actively take on an iPhone port of the famous AGS Engine? What are your thoughts on this Ladies & Gentlemen/Chris?
Cheers,
Paul.
The party (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=33322.0) never ends. It goes on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=22893.0) and on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=24320.0) and on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=34463.0) and on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=14344.0) and on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=18486.20) and on (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=32940.0).
Which is to say, while having it "spread" would be nice, AGS sadly hasn't been ported to systems that are both more common and more powerful than the iPhone. So why should there be one for that thing?
QuoteSo why should there be one for that thing?
A simple question deserves a simple response.
Why shouldn't AGS work on more than one system? :o
Edit: I think the question answers itself really. The iPhone is the single most infallible way of exposing a large pop culture to the wonders of AGS and it's wide range of games. That is my open, honest and educated opinion.
Paul.
I think this kind of questions has been asked to death. Currently I'll say it's more important to find someone to maintain the Linux and the MAC ports (I don't know how well they perform under Windows emulators like WINE though), rather than handheld systems.
The problem is, as always, CJ is the only person working on the engine and it's closed source. For ports to other systems we need trustable volunteers who are familiar in this systems (unless of course, CJ gets one of these systems himself and is interested in doing so).
(And no, I'm not interested in any of the handheld ports and I'm not getting an iphone for sure.)
QuoteFor ports to other systems we need trustable volunteers who are familiar in this systems
Yes... We do. Which is why this idea keeps being suggested. We all hope somebody will take this on. It is quite clear already that Chris has his hands full with the Windows versions. Is there anyone you know Chris that might be willing to take this on as a project? I guess it really comes down to trust rather than willingness.
QuoteAnd no, I'm not interested in any of the handheld ports and I'm not getting an iPhone for sure.
Thats fine. Your one of about 4 billion people with an opinion on computer systems. ;)
I agree somewhat that iPhone does have its problems. The worst one being its current 3G network plans, but the system itself is notably incredible. I can't go past that.
Cheers,
Paul.
I think an iPhone version would be worth it if there was a skilled and dedicated porter, it's a reasonable device for AGS to run on, and I do think it's worth supporting platforms where there may be commercial opportunties. It'd be a good draw for AGS. I don't know of anyone that'd do it. I don't own an iPhone.
I'd quite like to do a Wii port though, if it's not too much hassle for CJ. Potentially I could maintain the Linux and Mac versions from the same codebase, but no promises on that. AGS games on the Wii Shopping Channel or the iPhone App Store might be an interesting prospect for some.
You forgot Xbox Live Arcade :)
I think its time that AGS moves off of it's mother system and onto a wider variety of platforms. We all want to make games, but not just for Windows. It doesn't make sense anymore.
Cheers,
Paul.
(http://boatangdemetriou.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/flogging-dead-horse.jpg)
But seriously, it would take a lot of work to port AGS to something like the iPhone, and finding someone with the necessary skills and dedication to do so would not be easy. Looking at the existing Mac and Linux ports, they were relatively easy in comparison since they run on similar hardware to Windows -- and even there, it's hard to get them kept up to date.
"Oh if only that horse was still alive."
Seriously, isn't this a matter of time rather than difficulty? We MUST find someone dedicated enough to make time for this stuff, otherwise we will never see AGS mature in the way we all hope we live to see. With all due respect, I think Steve should step down and hand the Mac port to someone with a bit more time. His infrequent efforts are in vein it seems. AGS is a serious game development platform for indie developers and in turn should be taken seriously. I get the feeling AGS could be a LOT more if we move it to other platforms but this simply wont happen until someone steps up and puts in the hours.
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 00:54:40
"Oh if only that horse was still alive."
Seriously, isn't this a matter of time rather than difficulty? We MUST find someone dedicated enough to make time for this stuff, otherwise we will never see AGS mature in the way we all hope we live to see. With all due respect, I think Steve should step down and hand the Mac port to someone with a bit more time. His infrequent efforts are in vein it seems. AGS is a serious game development platform for indie developers and in turn should be taken seriously. I get the feeling AGS could be a LOT more if we move it to other platforms but this simply wont happen until someone steps up and puts in the hours.
Cheers,
Paul.
I don't mean to sound like a dick, but I don't see you volunteering.
Yes, we all want to see AGS ported to other systems. Most of my friends run macs without boot camp or any other way to run windows, so even some of my best friends won't be able to play the game I'm making. I would love for there to be a working mac port - but nobody has both the time and the expertise needed to do so. Standing around shouting about the "maturity of AGS" or "thinking forward about the future" or whatever doesn't mean anything if nobody can do it.
QuoteI don't mean to sound like a dick, but I don't see you volunteering.
That might have something to do with the fact I'm not a programmer.
In actual fact I am a Game Designer and Artist who wants to see my games on many platforms for a wider market. Isn't this reasonable?
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 00:54:40
We MUST find someone dedicated enough to make time for this stuff, otherwise we will never see AGS mature in the way we all hope we live to see.
While I don't disagree that having more ports makes a better world, I cannot agree with your statement, especially with that attitude. Why is it a must to do that?
Now, CJ, make me the Apple ][ port and everthing is settled. (Yes! It is an Apple! :=)
Theres no attitude my friend but just a desperate need to port my games to other systems. :)
Some of us are relying on this one day to make money you know. So while I am comfortable making do with what we have now, you can understand my particular concern about AGS future.
You said yourself you wanted to see AGS on other systems.
Again, no attitude, but concern for the future.
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 01:43:29That might have something to do with the fact I'm not a programmer.
And for the same reason you're requesting that port.
Or rather, if you were a programmer, you wouldn't be requesting that port.
People who buy into Apple's crap, err, machines have consciously chosen to pass on the opportunity to play a whole damn lot of really cool games. Why waste time by providing them with something they obviously don't want/appreciate anyway?
If you want cross-platform compatibility, switch the engine or *cough* code your own.
Well sure if we don't find anybody to port AGS then switching engines may be our best hope. But I don't have to like it :).
Quote from: KhrisMUC on Tue 05/08/2008 02:46:33
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 01:43:29That might have something to do with the fact I'm not a programmer.
And for the same reason you're requesting that port.
Or rather, if you were a programmer, you wouldn't be requesting that port.
People who buy into Apple's crap, err, machines have consciously chosen to pass on the opportunity to play a whole damn lot of really cool games. Why waste time by providing them with something they obviously don't want/appreciate anyway?
If you want cross-platform compatibility, switch the engine or *cough* code your own.
Yeah, you're right, fuck five percent of computer users, I don't want those filthy unwashed unsophisticated
plebians playing my games anyway
Perhaps if people who have actually made games with AGS and are actually selling them could tell us which other environments are most requested by customers, we could have an idea of cost/benefit ratios for alternate platforms.
As it is, most requests are just people who have been around for many years without making a proper game saying "ooh, ooh, an MSX port would be cool..."
Well actually I did my research and I wanted to get everybody's opinion on the iPhone. It might be a huge step up for AGS developers interested in the platform. Apple are only going to sell more iPhones. Lots more. Everybody's unjustified and biased Apple-Paranoia is rubbish. SSH is correct. We really need people with a history of AGS games to speak out. What target platforms would you like your games played on? Come on people...I'm just one guy here! ;)
Edit: QuoteQuantity of sales is not really the point. If you want volume of the platform
Actually its one of two valid points. One being sales for professional developers and two, as you said, being the number of players willing to download and play our games. Both issues are of equal value actually.
Cheers,
Paul.
Quantity of sales is not really the point. If you want volume of the platform, then go for a Wii, PS3 or Xbox port. However, people who buy those machines may not be interested in a point-and-click adventure. Similarly, the IPhone demographic may be more interested in other types of game.
Also, I believe that the IPhone SDK T&C prohibits interpreters such as the AGS runtime engine. This is one reason why Flash is taking so long to arrive on the IPhone, and lets face it Adobe have a better5 platform to negociate with Apple than CJ does.
Plus, the iPhone's screen is 480x320, so in order to not have ugly squashed pixels, you can only play 320x2X0 games with borders. Now try to hit that small hotspot with that huge, flat index finger of yours ;)
Yeah, I've only had my iPhone for less than a day, so maybe I have to get used to it more but I wouldn't really want to play an AGS game on it. It would have a certain novelty factor, playing it on a handheld, but i've had scummvm on a phone and on my gp2x so it's not as exciting as it once was.
Handhelds are a bit difficult because of the resolutions, true, but that's by no means insurmountable. I personally think Mac should be the number one priority for porting right now (it's quite common for casual games to have Mac ports), however I won't push that because I am not offering to do it myself.
What I am offering is the Wii though. If I need to pitch it:
It's the best selling console of the current generation, and continues to sell fastest.
Broad user base, including those lucrative middle aged women we all want right now.
It has a suitable pointing device and support for the necessary resolutions.
Online sales of old school 2D games are already big, and WiiWare platform is becoming more accessible to indie developers.
Homebrew works as of now, and requires no modchipping or difficult hacks, the state of homebrew is changing fast but ideally you will just insert the AGS DVD. Or if you already have the Homebrew Channel installed load it over the network or from SD card.
I am pretty sure I am capable of doing the port in a robust manner (as sure as I can be without actually seeing what is necessary).
To me it seems like the most logical candidate of all the non-PC devices out there. Obviously not everyone will own a Wii, nor will everyone that owns one be interested in playing/developing for it, but I fail to see the downside to trying it. I would avoid any disruption to the main AGS development.
QuoteI believe that the IPhone SDK T&C prohibits interpreters such as the AGS runtime engine. This is one reason why Flash is taking so long to arrive on the iPhone
Yes this is true.
QuoteNow try to hit that small hotspot with that huge, flat index finger of yours
This is also true. Good point. I guess the sorts of games I imagine developing for iPhone would make heavy use of puzzle solving with the use of the touch screen's specific advantages. In a similar fashion to the Nintendo DS, puzzles that involve moving blocks, blowing dust off books and squeezing lemons would be a refreshing touch to adventure games. Unlike the DS, the iPhone is not currently shipped with a Pen device so in aggreement with Khris, making games the way we're all used to, with fine hotspots and character navigation would be very unintelligent. With these new ways to control our games (Wii/iPhone/DS) we are challenged to come up with new and creative ways to engage the player which would not work under conventional circumstances.
So I agree and disagree at the same time. There are ways around the shortcomings of the iPhone but are we willing to make games like this is the question that comes to mind. Personally I say, bring it on while at the same time respecting the small scope of AGS's and its lack of programming hands!
Edit: Sorry scotch I missed your post as I was typing mine when you submitted it.
QuoteTo me the DS seems like the most logical candidate of all the non-PC devices out there.
I don't disagree with this at all actually. I think thats a good bet to make. The DS is by far a wider spread technology than the iPhone but is has been around for many years longer. It may be a case of waiting for the iPhone to mature a bit more. I wouldn't be phased one bit if we all decide that the iPhone is too risky right now for an AGS port. Thats fair game. OS X and the Nintendo DS on the other hand is most definitely the ideal platform for AGS and one that would benefit from an immediate and established user-base.
On one hand, I love the DS because of its fantastic touchscreen and proven market, but on the other hand its non-standard resolution of 256 x 192 holds it back from being 100% compatible with older games. ScummVM uses a hideous pan and scan technique to play classics like Monkey Island and Sam & Max. This limitation can be ignored for new games designed to work on the DS and it is not a limitation the iPhone offers. In fact, you get more vertical resolution than a PSP (480x272) on the iPhone platform. Widescreen has always been the favorite pet in the household of display technology. You can be on that!
Cheers,
Paul.
I didn't say that :P I was referring to the Wii. But I do think the DS is a great platform for adventures, and one that hasn't been explored enough by western developers. Unfortunately it's a difficult one for indie developers to get in on, because of the cartridge distribution costs.
I'm doing a homebrew demo on DS for my portfolio and I love the platform, but it's hard to justify doing anything for wide distribution when relatively few people have the equipment to play. That's mainly why I am enjoying the Wii homebrew situation right now, it's got a lot of potential for us indie/amateurs.
QuoteI didn't say that
Oops you didn't too! Whoopsies.
QuoteThat's mainly why I am enjoying the Wii homebrew situation right now, it's got a lot of potential for us indie/amateurs.
As does XboxLiveArcade. Have you looked into that too? Theres a very strong market ready and waiting for games to download and play!! Porting to Xbox from Windows would be easier for obvious reasons but I too would love to see our games on the Wii marketplace.
Cheers,
Paul.
Live is the most established service right now, but unfortunately for AGS, you can't run native homebrew code on the 360. Indie developers can use XNA (for a fee) but that's not an option for AGS because of the .net based platform. Aside from that, the main problem for AGS games is the controller.
We are talking about the homebrew scene at the moment, rather than the commercial potential offered by WiiWare and XBoxLiveArcade (which is a very different situation, imho), and as such I think a Wii port of AGS is a marvelous idea.
However, given Nintendo's recent kick in the balls to the R4, the Homebrew Channel may be heading for a rocky future.
I think it's worth considering the commercial platforms as well, I know it's a small thing right now but commercial indie development is only just getting what it always needed, access to the same marketplaces the big developers sell on. There are already some indie scale Wiiware games released, and more coming.
It's true Nintendo could make life difficult for homebrew developers if they wanted, and they partially broke some homebrew stuff once before, but I'm fairly confident it's here to stay.
I'm not sure what you are referring to with the R4, it still works fine for virtually everything afaik, and I don't remember Nintendo attacking carts directly. If they have, they're more justified in doing that, since they are clearly intended for piracy. There is no known way to use the homebrew channels for piracy so it should be less offensive to them.
Quote from: scotch on Tue 05/08/2008 11:27:05
Handhelds are a bit difficult because of the resolutions, true, but that's by no means insurmountable. I personally think Mac should be the number one priority for porting right now (it's quite common for casual games to have Mac ports), however I won't push that because I am not offering to do it myself.
What I am offering is the Wii though.
Thanks for your offer to attempt a Wii port, scotch. I'll get in touch once I've sorted out CVS.
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 01:43:29
In actual fact I am a Game Designer and Artist who wants to see my games on many platforms for a wider market. Isn't this reasonable?
Are you willing to pay for it?
AGS, last time I checked, was freeware. I'm very happy that it is, as that gives me the opportunity to play around with it and not waste hundreds of dollars on a program there's a huge possibility I'm never going to use for anything serious.
As long one is not paying for a program, why make demands? Presenting wishes is one thing, that gives the developer an overview of which platforms are most wanted. Offering to do a port to another system is one thing, I imagine that is highly appreciated. But as long as we're not paying a penny for this program, we're not in any position to make demands.
If you're really
relying on porting your games to other systems to make money, I will strongly suggest that you go out and buy some software that lets you do that, and then you make your games with it. I'm sure such software exists.
(I'm sorry if this became a very negative post.)
Quote from: subspark on Tue 05/08/2008 11:28:54
QuoteNow try to hit that small hotspot with that huge, flat index finger of yours
This is also true. Good point. I guess the sorts of games I imagine developing for iPhone would make heavy use of puzzle solving with the use of the touch screen's specific advantages. In a similar fashion to the Nintendo DS, puzzles that involve moving blocks, blowing dust off books and squeezing lemons would be a refreshing touch to adventure games. Unlike the DS, the iPhone is not currently shipped with a Pen device so in aggreement with Khris, making games the way we're all used to, with fine hotspots and character navigation would be very unintelligent. With these new ways to control our games (Wii/iPhone/DS) we are challenged to come up with new and creative ways to engage the player which would not work under conventional circumstances.
So, you're not talking about expanding the market by just being able to play ordinary AGS games on the iPhone, you're talking about making games specifically for the iPhone, which then would be closed to the PC market without the use of a touch screen.
Also, I've got ScummVM on the Wii through Homebrew, and the platform really does seem to suit the genre.
I think it'd be really cool to see AGS do the same.
Yeah, the Wii would be an interesting one. I'm not convinced about using the Wiimote as a mouse, since it doesn't give a very stable pointer and it gets tiring holding it after a while, but maybe people would get used to it.
I agree. I never liked the PS2/PS3 Controllers but eventually muscle memory kicked in and I became very familiar with the control style. I think Wii would be the same. I'm all in for the Wii if our dear scotch would be gracious enough to port the engine!
Cheers,
Sparx :)
Quote from: scotch on Tue 05/08/2008 11:27:05
What I am offering is the Wii though.
I believe the big endian code I wrote for the script variables and save games for the mac port is complete. Let me know if it's not clear. If you decide to do it a different way I'd also be curious to see what you come up with :=
CJ: Thanks. I've played through BASS on my Wii, and I didn't find it problematic, but there can certainly be some improvements over how ScummVM handles the mouse.
Steve: I wasn't sure if you had made a PPC version, not having used the Mac stuff, that'll be a big help!
Sorry to drag this up again but has there been any update on a Wii port to allow us to play AGS games?
Since this is up here again, I would like to suggest a port to the Commodore 64 and Apple IIe. Any takers. ;) LOL.
Actually I am interested in these ports and was wondering what ever happened to these idea's.