Courtesy of the mighty Dave Gilbert.
(http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pgW8buwFajM)
Hey, That's a pretty good find. I didn't even realise Dave did that. Dave did talk briefly about reality on the norm in the Bytejacker episode he appeared in along side Ivy and Grundy, but not to the depths that he did here.
It's a shame the thread that created RotN was never archived. It would be great to look back at, see the people who really created RotN.
"see the people who really created RotN."
Says the man who helped create RotN!
...man I wish I completed Time Out...
Finish Time Out! And maybe then I'll finish my Jesus Ron game.
And then maybe Grundislav and I will work on our ultimate Chef collaboration game!
Hah. Man, I was so unprepared for that speech. I was originally going to talk about Emerald City Confidential, but then the publisher decided to delay the announcement so I had to throw together a completely new presentation about 2 hours before I spoke.
There was a lot more I could have talked about, but the presentation format was limited to 20 slides and 20 seconds per slide. It's called "Pecha Kucha" and it's a type of presentation that's getting kinda popular.
That was so interesting, nostalgic and heart warming for someone who has been here from the start and lived through the RON craze. Pity it's almost dead.
It was awesome to see how interested the crowd was and how they laughed hard when they saw some of the... let's call them... unique... RON characters.
Say Dave, who were the crowd and where was the lecture?
The event was called Pecha Kucha, and was sponsored by the New York City chapter of the IGDA (international game developers association). So the event was in NYC, and the crowd was made up of various industry professionals, students, and so on.
That's cool.
Word.
I might take Dave's advice and contribute something to RON for my first AGS game.
Quote from: Trihan on Mon 22/12/2008 16:40:49
I might take Dave's advice and contribute something to RON for my first AGS game.
I've often considered this, too... but it means playing the games to know what I'm talking about. And as Dave said in the presentation, there are so many now that I just wouldn't know where to start (the first person who says 'at the beginning' is gonna get a slap ;D ).
Start at the end and work your way backwards. It'll be like an AGS version of Memento!
I present some choice meaty chunks:
Lunchtime of the Damned (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=92) - First game in the series. Obviously dates the most in terms of graphics, but sets the tone to come. A remake is being considered, and some awesome backgrounds have been made avaliable. Just waiting for someone to pick up the ball and do something with them.
The Postman only dies Once (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=104) - The first Max Griff game, and Dave Gilbert's second.
Cabbages and Kings (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=123) - Along with Kittens and Cacti and Apocalypse Meow, these make up the Night of the Kittens series. A possessed army of kittens running amok? Yes please.
The First Stitch (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=128) - First part of Dylan Downing's Tapestry series (continued in The Unravelling and Rend). More serious in tone that the others, but solid games that have benefitted from being recompiled with the new resources.
The Chef (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=120) - The game featured on the Bytejacker segment. Play it purely for the win that is Guido. NUDISTS OF TEH WORLD UNITE.
Play those and you'll have a pretty good idea what sort of excellence can be done with RON.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 19/12/2008 03:31:12
...man I wish I completed Time Out...
… and I wish I never made ROTN 2 ½ Fowl Play, haha.
Quote from: Stupot on Mon 22/12/2008 16:49:03
I've often considered this, too... but it means playing the games to know what I'm talking about.
True enough, but you can probably get by if you play half a dozen of them and use the RON-O-Pedia for the rest.
Quote from: DC on Mon 22/12/2008 18:28:36
I present some choice meaty chunks:
Lunchtime of the Damned (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=92) - First game in the series. Obviously dates the most in terms of graphics, but sets the tone to come. A remake is being considered, and some awesome backgrounds have been made avaliable. Just waiting for someone to pick up the ball and do something with them.
The Postman only dies Once (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=104) - The first Max Griff game, and Dave Gilbert's second.
Cabbages and Kings (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=123) - Along with Kittens and Cacti and Apocalypse Meow, these make up the Night of the Kittens series. A possessed army of kittens running amok? Yes please.
The First Stitch (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=128) - First part of Dylan Downing's Tapestry series (continued in The Unravelling and Rend). More serious in tone that the others, but solid games that have benefitted from being recompiled with the new resources.
The Chef (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=120) - The game featured on the Bytejacker segment. Play it purely for the win that is Guido. NUDISTS OF TEH WORLD UNITE.
Play those and you'll have a pretty good idea what sort of excellence can be done with RON.
You forgot to mention the I Spy's
I Spy http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/ispyrel3.zip (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/ispyrel3.zip)
I Spy 2 http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/ispyii.zip (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/ispyii.zip)
III Spy http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/IIISpy.zip (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/IIISpy.zip)
Dead man's political party is a great game as well. http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/DMPP.zip (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/downloads/games/DMPP.zip)
And please. No more games with Davy Jones as the main character. He can be so pathetic angsty emo like.
I just played Lunchtime and Postman. Lunchtime was pretty good and I was really enjoying Postman but I got trapped in the shop...
Spoiler
Every time I send the clerk out of the room to look for a board game it won't let me pick up the balloon or the drain cleaning fluid without the clerk coming back out and catching me... it says something like 'that trick won't work again, must find another method'... but infact I haven't done the trick the first time yet, but it thinks I have... and it won't let me leave the shop saying 'I should have a look about in his absence', thinking that the clerk is still out back, but infact he is back behind the counter still...
I'm going to try a few more now though...
There are people who know a lot about the RoN universe (perhaps more than they'd like :)) that could answer questions regarding characters or the in-game history (such as it is).
Stupot- if you're still having trouble with Postman, you can find a walkthrough on this page (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=104).
QuoteAnd please. No more games with Davy Jones as the main character. He can be so pathetic angsty emo like.
Angsty emo-like? I've never found the character to exhibit those traits. Of course, given the unlimited freedom, someone could make a game where Griff runs around in a giant bear costume and ends up sitting on shelves in New York.
Quote from: Renegade Implementor on Tue 23/12/2008 02:03:32
Stupot- if you're still having trouble with Postman, you can find a walkthrough on this page (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=104).
Yeh, I tried using it, but I'm literally stuck... it's a bug. I can't leave the shop or get the items I need because I must have done things in the wrong order.
Quote from: Renegade Implementor on Tue 23/12/2008 02:03:32
QuoteAnd please. No more games with Davy Jones as the main character. He can be so pathetic angsty emo like.
Angsty emo-like? I've never found the character to exhibit those traits. Of course, given the unlimited freedom, someone could make a game where Griff runs around in a giant bear costume and ends up sitting on shelves in New York.
Umm... Well I guess that's more the way I see him.
Anyway, he should have stayed dead and has gotten far more attention than he really should have. And his girlfriend certainly has him under the thumb. Seriously alot of other good characters to utilise out there. The Baron for instance? He needs to be showcased in a game in his full evilness. Thakbor would also be a great player character. Perhaps a Thakbor/Thakbor's Mum Quest where you can control both of them.
Due to the open-ness of the whole Universe, there are a lot of very weak characters as well, along with games. There are alot of RON games out there, with only a few that I'd personally recommend.
Well, nothing's stopping you from making a game about Thakbor except you, really!
I also agree that Davy Jones is rather annoying, and in my as-yet unmade game I planned to kill him yet again, as well as many of the more ridiculous RoN characters.
Thakbor's the main protagonist in my current RON project. I'm keeping schtum, but here's a background that may provide a clue as to what it involves.
(http://pics.livejournal.com/julian_lapis/pic/0000sf79)
I think one of the problems RoN suffers is a case of "tv main cast" syndrome. I've seen far too many game proposals that are variants on themes from the first few games that centre around the same small group of characters.
With regards to character design/development in general, I've never understood the desire to stomp/trash/kill a fictional character. If you identify a character as problematic, I think it's much better to identify what the problem is and then, as a writer, address the problem and fix it.
As for the huge amount of characters & games, once the holiday season is over, I'm planning on holding a discussion on the series and possible ways to move forward in the new year.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 23/12/2008 12:52:01
Well, nothing's stopping you from making a game about Thakbor except you, really!
I also agree that Davy Jones is rather annoying, and in my as-yet unmade game I planned to kill him yet again, as well as many of the more ridiculous RoN characters.
Well I do agree with you there somewhat. I'm working on a game and I'm not allowed to work on anything but since I'll get distracted and put it 'on hold'... indefinitly.
And DC is already making one, so hooray. I hope it features Guido.
Speaking of which, if Jesus RON ever gets released, it will heavily feature Guido and his nude beach. Hooray.
Oh, and to RI, Davy's death was a great thing. It did go against the ground rules of RON in a way (although I'm pretty sure Yahtzee gave his consent to Davy's death), it made it more like a soap opera (sort of, his death (the Mostly version) was a bit outrageous), which was the original intent of Gravity when he proposed the idea (which was somewhat taken off track by Yahtzee et al).
On a direction forward for RON, I like the idea of the updated sprites and backgrounds. What I've seen by Krysis and RI and others is a vast improvement, but as to updating the older RON games, I don't really see much point, apart from to maybe make them compatible with XP, Vista and the forthcoming 7. As for 'deluxe' versions with extended content, I'm not really sure it is worth the effort (although I suppose if you are completly rescripting a game, there would be no problem adding extra content.)
Perhaps what is needed is a RON reboot. There have been several attempts in the past to create a RON 2.0, one I know of was several high-profile AGSers collaborating to create a space station type RON. That's not the kind of thing I am thinking of though. Perhaps a re-working of major locations, nicer graphics (though still relatively simple so not to turn-off those creators who's asset creation ability is not amazing. Something like the 'Krysis' style. Locations such as the Town square should be redesigned, as I've always found it strange that the Jones' house in in the bloody town square. That doesn't really make much sense, as apart from the apartments, it should be a commercial area (as it would be in any town square, the only houses would be above shops, which would make them flats. The core locations were created in the space of maybe 5 days.
I'd like to see a RON committee formed, to set the rules for the reboot, create new character profiles, give some characters a bit more of a backstory. I know it's an open project, but simple things make it alot better for everyone. And before any RON game is released, the committee should be part of the beta test, and it should be 'approved'. If some details are incorrect, they would be noted by the committee. If a character acts 'out of character', it should be noted by the testing committee and fixed, or explained in the game why this character did this through dialog or something. It's late and I'm rambling, but I've though quite a bit about this in the last few days.
It would be a nice thing to see RON return bigger and better than ever. And I think by setting a few new rules, give it a bit of a reboot, keep the old games naturally, but have them in a different section of the website.
Things that would also be useful, a detailed streetmap of RON, and something like a 'guidebook' entry of RON, detailing the history, backstory, sights, places to stay, make it seem authentic (I did both of these with the series a long time ago on paper, it was a mess due to the sort of inconsistancies, but unfortunatly do not have it anymore). Something like this would be very useful to new authors, as they can choose an 'unused' location on the streetmap and create new rooms, not just put them anywhere. It would definatly be a big collaborative effort to create such a thing, but it can be done.
Anyway, that's my ideas and input for now. Aww, I feel all nostalgic now, this reminds me of the thread that created RON. :)
QuoteIf you identify a character as problematic, I think it's much better to identify what the problem is and then, as a writer, address the problem and fix it.
And one of the ways problematic characters are 'fixed' in films and television (and novels) is to kill them off. If you notice, they'll usually sacrifice less popular characters in tv series for cliffhanger type endings to boost ratings. It happens all the time.
Also, the game Grundislav and I have been bouncing around features Guido heavily.
Proof:
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/cheflucca.gif)
(http://kafkaskoffee.com/junk/guidoFixed.gif)
FIXED
Quote from: Ryan K on Tue 23/12/2008 03:42:45
...
Due to the open-ness of the whole Universe, there are a lot of very weak characters as well, along with games. There are alot of RON games out there, with only a few that I'd personally recommend.
Could you list those?
Quote from: Ryan K on Tue 23/12/2008 14:39:33
Perhaps what is needed is a RON reboot.
Isn't that essentially what Maniac Mansion Mania does? That, too, is basically a set of characters and locations with a semi-ongoing plot that everybody can use and add to...
Quote from: Radiant on Tue 23/12/2008 22:03:07
Quote from: Ryan K on Tue 23/12/2008 14:39:33
Perhaps what is needed is a RON reboot.
Isn't that essentially what Maniac Mansion Mania does? That, too, is basically a set of characters and locations with a semi-ongoing plot that everybody can use and add to...
How is MMM a reboot Radiant? Its just a continuation of the Maniac Mansion games created by Germans. This is about Reality on the Norm.
I agree with Progz about the way to deal with problematic characters. And I know all about the Grundislav Chef game. ;)
Quote from: Ryan K on Tue 23/12/2008 23:28:05
How is MMM a reboot Radiant? Its just a continuation of the Maniac Mansion games created by Germans. This is about Reality on the Norm.
I'm aware. My point is that MMM is, essentially, the competition. Sure, it's a different universe, but both are collaborative design settings, with strongly overlapping target audiences.
Yeah, but only German's make games for MMM. That's not competition in my eyes.
QuoteAnd I know all about the Grundislav Chef game.
The
Grundislav Chef game!? BLUSTER! The idea for it was mine! :=
Though he did suggest making it a musical, which is a grand idea.
Eric- His penis isn't NEARLY as big as it was in that one game everyone knows about, and that's practically canon. I demand you fix this immediately.
Heh, I remember making an attempt to explain the Jones house and the oddness of its location in my (not quite yet abandoned) short story Back to Reality. I see it as a throwback to the time when Sigsimund Jones was the town's main protector and thus was billited in the Town Centre.
Right, now follows some random ideas of mine.
I think it would help to have newer games set in the 2004/5 onwards timeframe, to act as a clear distinction from the older ones in the series. Failing that, to split the current games so far into a couple of clearly defined 'seasons'.
There's a few administrative tweaks that can be done to properly facilitate new folks into getting their bearings. Seperating the character bios would be a good idea, because right now it's 8 pages in the order they were introduced with nothing to denote their importance. Maybe something like 'player characters', 'major secondary characters' (10+ game appearences), 'minor secondary characters' (5+ game appearences), 'one off characters' (1-2 game appearences). There were also talks a while back of properly pimping out the games section to award more prominence to the better games of the series.
Also, something the oldies can really help with - the RON wiki (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page). This has the potential to be an extremly valuable resource that would really help out those who right now feel they don't know enough about the series to make a game. Plot summaries, ongoing stories, a definitive list of the Bum's indentities... I think this should be a big project for next year. Maybe people taking a few games or characters worth of entries each? Would be a good excuse to replay the series... :D
Finally, there are talks of doing that proposed remake of Lunchtime of the Damned, but with Big Brother's backgrounds and Mr Frisby's sprites, along with adding more to the story. If people were to play that as their first ever RON game, I think good times will be pretty much guarenteed from then on.
Great video, thorough & interesting presentation Dave, nice to see RoN get promoted like that. It's still funny that the character I was going to use was mentioned on even the newest website, even though I never made it. I think that's when RoN first happened, someone said "Everyone make up a character whether you use them or not"... Anyway good stuff! Interested to know if anyone still uses my midi in their intro screen still or whether it's been replaced. Saying that I'm always happy to make more tunes for anyone's RoN game. Take for example Apocolypse Meow. Well done tho Dave, nice stuff!
That tune has survived the entire series, Mods. Be very proud. :D
Quote from: ProgZmax on Wed 24/12/2008 08:02:31
I demand you fix this immediately.
(http://kafkaskoffee.com/junk/guidoFixed3.gif)
I'm sure it comes as no surprise to find that I made this very shortly after making the first image.
Much better. Spaghetti with meatballs!
...
MY MIND.
Ah, penis jokes, they never get old.
So how about that list?
Quote from: The Invisible Cardboard Urinal on Tue 23/12/2008 14:39:33
I'd like to see a RON committee formed, to set the rules for the reboot, create new character profiles, give some characters a bit more of a backstory. I know it's an open project, but simple things make it alot better for everyone. And before any RON game is released, the committee should be part of the beta test, and it should be 'approved'. If some details are incorrect, they would be noted by the committee. If a character acts 'out of character', it should be noted by the testing committee and fixed, or explained in the game why this character did this through dialog or something. It's late and I'm rambling, but I've though quite a bit about this in the last few days.created RON. :)
Hm, after seeing what happened to Au Naturel where there was a resistance to add it to the site originally I think we have to be careful with committees. If it gets established it should only judge if a game is canon and without bugs.
QuoteYeah, but only German's make games for MMM. That's not competition in my eyes.
Maybe someone should do a crossover title. Actually, I had this idea for awhile now. I might tackle it sooner or later...
Quote from: Ozzie on Wed 31/12/2008 01:08:24
Quote from: The Invisible Cardboard Urinal on Tue 23/12/2008 14:39:33
I'd like to see a RON committee formed, to set the rules for the reboot, create new character profiles, give some characters a bit more of a backstory. I know it's an open project, but simple things make it alot better for everyone. And before any RON game is released, the committee should be part of the beta test, and it should be 'approved'. If some details are incorrect, they would be noted by the committee. If a character acts 'out of character', it should be noted by the testing committee and fixed, or explained in the game why this character did this through dialog or something. It's late and I'm rambling, but I've though quite a bit about this in the last few days.created RON. :)
Hm, after seeing what happened to Au Naturel where there was a resistance to add it to the site originally I think we have to be careful with committees. If it gets established it should only judge if a game is canon and without bugs.
I'd like to be on that committee personally. The committee idea is not about censorship, it's more about continuity and making sure details are correct. If the story is great and has a sex scene or full-frontal nudity, you place a warning on it's game page. Simple as that.
A crossover title? Please no. I think the Maniac Mansion Manias do a pretty good job already of completely destroying the wit, style and innocence of the maniac mansion universe already. I'm not saying all of the games do this, but I've played more than a few that were just tacky and unfunny.
I am also against a crossover title. I accidently quoted his whole post, not just the committee bit I originally intended to quote.
I have not played a Maniac Mansion Mania title, and I honestly do not plan to.
I like the idea of Reality on the Norm. It is an original, character rich universe, and the stories can be comedic, they can be serious, they can be whatever you want them to be. Maniac Mansion is/was a commercial game, and making sequels equates to fan-gamage, something I have no desire to be a part of.
I agree that creatively a crossover title sounds like a sure failure. And I have no idea if MMM has even a solid creative foundation (I doubt it) because I never played one of these games. Not to forget that MMM is mainly in german and RON in english. Hm...
But then, if you're creative with this concept it could work. It's not about sellout like when Hollywood or the comics industry does it, I just thought it would be a great idea to bring those two communities together.
Quote from: jetxl on Sat 27/12/2008 16:29:13
Ah, penis jokes, they never get old.
Spoiler
And neither do "take that nipple frame out" bouncing booby gifs :D
Nice images MrC :P
So Dave, do we get to hear your Emerald City Confidential lecture now that it's been announced and released?
~Trent
It hasn't been released, and there wasn't an ECC lecture anyway, so I'm afraid not. :)
-Dave