A puzzle....

Started by Iliya, Fri 09/04/2010 12:00:35

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Iliya

Three wise men are told to stand in a straight line, one in front of the other. A hat is put on each of their heads. They are told that each of these hats was selected from a group of five hats: two black hats and three white hats. The first man, standing at the front of the line, can't see either of the men behind him or their hats. The second man, in the middle, can see only the first man and his hat. The last man, at the rear, can see both other men and their hats.

None of the men can see the hat on his own head. They are asked to deduce its color. Some time goes by as the wise men ponder the puzzle in silence. Finally the first one, at the front of the line, makes an announcement: "My hat is white."

He is correct. How did he come to this conclusion?

Crimson Wizard

Answer:

Spoiler

If 2 first men were both wearing BLACK hats, the 3rd man would say that he is wearing WHITE.
This means, first 2 men are wearing either 2 WHITE hats or BLACK AND WHITE hats.
SO, If first man wears BLACK hat, 2nd man would say that HE is wearing WHITE. But he sais nothing.
That means that first man is wearing WHITE hat in any case.
[close]

NsMn

No. Correct answer:

Spoiler
The first man GUESSED.

...

...no, seriously, that's all. He had a 50:50 chance, why shouldn't he?
[close]

Ali

Surely it's a 60:40 chance, NsMn.

The REAL correct answer is:

Spoiler
The white hat was the wise man's Mother.
[close]

Stupot

#4
Either:

Spoiler

He saw his reflection in a shop window...
[close]

Or:

Spoiler

He doesn't know the colour of the hat he has been made to wear for this exercise, but is simply stating a fact about a hat which he does happen to own...

"My hat is white (but its at home on the hatstand)"
[close]

or

Spoiler

The guy behind him passed him a piece of paper saying "your hat is white".
[close]

Calin Leafshade

Spoiler
He's a Klu Klux Klansman and would be seriously pissed if his hat was not white
[close]

Anian

Spoiler
obviously telepath
[close]
I don't want the world, I just want your half

Crimson Wizard

You, guys, are no fun at all. I spent my brain energies and 15 minutes of my life to solve a puzzle. You are wasting your fingers to type a nonsense. Shame on you  8)

Stupot

Most of my favorite riddles have silly solutions similar to the one's I posted.  I'm sure this one has a more mathematically logical answer, but I can't work it out, So I'm going the silly route.  I can't get your answer to make sense either, Crim.

Ali

I feel bad, I've never been accused of wasting my fingers before. I did solve the puzzle before typing some nonsense.

Now the puzzle is solved we need another, or it's nonsense from here on in.

OneDollar

Quote from: Stupot on Fri 09/04/2010 13:35:12
I can't get your answer to make sense either, Crim.

He's right.
Spoiler
Both the first and second guys know that the third guy will speak up if they are both wearing black hats (because if they are both wearing black hats there are no black hats left so the third guy will know he's wearing a white one). When he doesn't speak both the first and second guy realise that one of them is definitely wearing a white hat and the other is wearing either a white or a black hat. Because the second guy knows this he also knows that if he can see the first guy wearing a black hat, then his hat must be white. When he doesn't speak up either the first guy concludes that this isn't the case and so his hat must be white.
[close]
Quote from: Ali on Fri 09/04/2010 13:37:40
Now the puzzle is solved we need another, or it's nonsense from here on in.
Yes, more riddles! Can't think of a good one offhand though.

Iliya

And now the scores:

Crimson Wizard - A
OneDollar - B
Ali - Я
Stupot - Я
anian - Я
Calin Leafshade - Я
NsMn - Я

:)

OneDollar

Hah, I didn't solve it I just rewrote Crimson's answer ;D. I've seen the puzzle before though.

OK, Googling brings up this one:

There are an even number of coins on a table, and there are the same number of coins with heads up as tails up. Your task is to separate the coins into two piles, where the number of heads up in each pile is equal. The problem is you are blindfolded and can't tell which way up each coin is facing. How do you do it?

tzachs

Quote from: OneDollar on Fri 09/04/2010 13:52:14
Yes, more riddles! Can't think of a good one offhand though.
Ok, if you insist:

100 men are being kept captive by a big, bad, ugly witch. The witch tells them: "Tomorrow I'm gonna put you in a straight line, one in front of the other, where each one will see all of the guys in front of him and not the guys before him.  I will put a hat on each of you, it will be either black or white, with no other limitations (it can be 50/50 or 100/0, everything goes). Each man, from the last in the line (the guy who sees all the rest) until the first one (the guy who sees no one) will have to guess the color of his hat, if he succeeds, he lives,  if he fails, he dies."

The 100 guys have all night to plan together their tactics. What do they need to do in order to rescue the most guys possible (and what is the most guys possible to be rescued)?

NsMn

Since I can only solve monkey's riddle by cheating (I can feel if a coin is face up or not, pfah!  ;) ), I can only post these old ones:

1. A man has 17 camels. As he's close to death, he speaks to his three sons: "Mustafa, you shall inherit half of my camels. You, Babar [heh], shall receive one third of my camels, and Amir, I give you 1/9 of them.".
So it happens that the old man dies, and the sons are in a dilemma: They can't part them up without killing one camel. What should they do? Well, coincidentally, as they sit out on the street and discuss, a wise man in a luxurious wagon driven by a camel comes by and hears them fighting over their heritage. He decides to help the three brothers.

Question: What will the wise man do?

2. After the man died, he rises up to the heavens and finds himself in front of two doors - one of them leads to heaven, the other one to hell...
...wait. forget about that riddle. The solution doesn't even work.

Stupot

#15
@OneDollar
Spoiler
do the two pile's have to make use of all the coins, or could you just take two of the coins and put them into 2 piles of 1, as long as one is a head and one is a tail?

[EDIT] Infact... that's my answer.. there are only two coins, and if you've already been told that their are an equal number of heads and tails then you know you just need to put them into two piles of one... ;D
[close]

@tzachs - I wont answer this because I found it when I was trying to find the answer to the first riddle.

Calin Leafshade

tzachs: If the first person simply repeats the colour of the hat in front then the person in front will know what colour their hat is.. thus saving at least 99 of the 100 and gives the last one a 50 50 chance.

Ali

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 14:33:44
1. A man has 17 camels. As he's close to death, he speaks to his three sons: "Mustafa, you shall inherit half of my camels. You, Babar [heh], shall receive one third of my camels, and Amir, I give you 1/9 of them.".
So it happens that the old man dies, and the sons are in a dilemma: They can't part them up without killing one camel. What should they do? Well, coincidentally, as they sit out on the street and discuss, a wise man in a luxurious wagon driven by a camel comes by and hears them fighting over their heritage. He decides to help the three brothers.

Question: What will the wise man do?

Um...this seems a bit too obvious to be the answer:

Spoiler
Loans them his camel, so they have 18. Gives 9 to Mustafa  (1/2), 6 to Babar  (1/3) and 2 to Amir. Then he takes the remaining camel and rides off into the sunset...?
[close]

Crimson Wizard

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 14:33:44
1. A man has 17 camels. As he's close to death, he speaks to his three sons: "Mustafa, you shall inherit half of my camels. You, Babar [heh], shall receive one third of my camels, and Amir, I give you 1/9 of them.".
So it happens that the old man dies, and the sons are in a dilemma: They can't part them up without killing one camel. What should they do? Well, coincidentally, as they sit out on the street and discuss, a wise man in a luxurious wagon driven by a camel comes by and hears them fighting over their heritage. He decides to help the three brothers.

Question: What will the wise man do?

Okay, lemme guess...
Spoiler

He added his own camel to their 17, thus having 18 in summ. He then divided those 18 as their father required (half = 9, third = 6, ninth = 2, total 17, and returned his own camel back.
[close]

By the way, I must say that
Spoiler
this puzzle actually remind me of a programmer's integer division problem :)
[close]


Crimson Wizard

#19
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 14:40:28
tzachs: If the first person simply repeats the colour of the hat in front then the person in front will know what colour their hat is.. thus saving at least 99 of the 100 and gives the last one a 50 50 chance.
Calin, you're completely wrong. If the person repeats the colour of the NEXT guy, he will save himself only if he has SAME colour. Thus 99 of the 100 is not the LEAST saved, but MOST possible saved. Least saved is actually 1, the first in the line (one who does not have anyone in front).

Calin Leafshade

oh yea i see what you mean.. if they alternated then they could save half... but that would be pointless since they have a 50 50 chance anyway.

Ali

Or they could use Calin's method and have a simple code to use when guessing.

"I think it's X"  tells the guy in front he's wearing white. "My hat is X" tells him it's black.

Iliya

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Fri 09/04/2010 15:05:48
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 14:40:28
tzachs: If the first person simply repeats the colour of the hat in front then the person in front will know what colour their hat is.. thus saving at least 99 of the 100 and gives the last one a 50 50 chance.
Calin, you're completely wrong. If the person repeats the colour of the NEXT guy, he will save himself only if he has SAME colour. Thus 99 of the 100 is not the LEAST saved, but MOST possible saved. Least saved is actually 1, the first in the line (one who does not have anyone in front).

I think that the answer is around this: they decide to to start guessing first only who are seeing black hat infront. Then those who are not hearing answer from the guy behind should know that their hat is white. I can't explain it well.

Crimson Wizard

Quote from: Harg on Fri 09/04/2010 15:12:41
I think that the answer is around this: they decide to to start guessing first only who are seeing black hat infront. Then those who are not hearing answer from the guy behind should know that their hat is white. I can't explain it well.

This raises another question: how were they allowed to give answers? Maybe witch wanted them to answer in certain order.

BTW, Ali's variant is interesting ;) it actually gives a chance to save 99 of 100.

NsMn

Wiz and Ali: Yes, you're correct. As I've said, the riddle is pretty old.

Quote from: OneDollar on Fri 09/04/2010 14:18:21Hah, I didn't solve it I just rewrote Crimson's answer ;D. I've seen the puzzle before though.

OK, Googling brings up this one:

There are an even number of coins on a table, and there are the same number of coins with heads up as tails up. Your task is to separate the coins into two piles, where the number of heads up in each pile is equal. The problem is you are blindfolded and can't tell which way up each coin is facing. How do you do it?

Aha! I don't really have the solution, but foudn out something else:

Spoiler
It must have something to do with another condition, like Stupot said. Imagine you e.g. have 3 coins with heads up and 3 with tails up - well, try making these two piles then. You would always have 2 coins w/ head up in the one pile and 1 in the other.
[close]

tzachs

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Fri 09/04/2010 15:22:27
This raises another question: how were they allowed to give answers? Maybe witch wanted them to answer in certain order.
To make things clearer:
they do have to answer in certain order: the guy in the back (who sees the rest) has to answer first, then the one after him and so on until the last one (who sees no one). Plus, they are not allowed to say anything other than 'guessing' the color of their hat, so they can't deliver any other messages to their comrades. Also, after guy x guessed his color, guy x+1 will not know if guy x was correct or not...

Quote from: Calin Leafshade
oh yea i see what you mean.. if they alternated then they could save half... but that would be pointless since they have a 50 50 chance anyway.
Calin, this method will save 50 people for a 100%, and the other 50 will have 50% of making it which is way better then just having 50 50 chance, so it is an improvement.
Still, there are even better solutions...

Calin Leafshade

Quote from: tzachs on Fri 09/04/2010 17:02:52
Still, there are even better solutions...

Kill the fucking witch.

Done.

Crimson Wizard

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 17:34:54
Quote from: tzachs on Fri 09/04/2010 17:02:52
Still, there are even better solutions...

Kill the fucking witch.

Done.
Yeah. 100 men vs some stupid witch. Meh.  :=

Ali

Shut up, you guys. She'll hear us!

NsMn

So? She's a woman.


*BA-DUM DISH!*

LRH

More riddle action!

Oldie but goodie:

A man is enjoying some food in a pub and after some time he goes up to the bartender and asks for a glass of water. The bartender immediately pulls out a shotgun from behind the bar and aims it right at the man's face! The man pauses for a moment, stunned, but then smiles and thanks the bartender. The bartender smiles as well and puts away the gun.

What the hell just happened?!

(Also I'm pretty sure someone made a game with a bunch of riddles...hm.  ;))

Calin Leafshade

A man gets into a swimming pool, naked with some man-eating sharks and walks from one side of the pool to the other without being hurt. How?

LimpingFish

@Domithan:

Spoiler
The man has the hiccups.
[close]
@Calin:

Spoiler
He is the messiah.
[close]
I only ever heard one riddle that I can actually remember the answer to, so:

A man lives on the the top floor of a five-storey building. The building is equipped with stairs and an elevator. Every day the man goes out to buy groceries. He takes the elevator from the top floor to the ground floor. Every day, on his return, he takes the elevator to the second floor and walks up three flights of stairs to the top floor. Why, oh why?
Steam: LimpingFish
PSN: LFishRoller
XB: TheActualLimpingFish
Spotify: LimpingFish

LRH

Because
Spoiler
He's a midget and can't reach the top floor's button?
[close]

Calin Leafshade

A box with no hinges, key or lid, but precious treasure within is hid.

LimpingFish

@Domithan

Spoiler
Correct!
[close]
Steam: LimpingFish
PSN: LFishRoller
XB: TheActualLimpingFish
Spotify: LimpingFish

Crimson Wizard

#36
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:02:06
A man gets into a swimming pool, naked with some man-eating sharks and walks from one side of the pool to the other without being hurt. How?

Spoiler

He just crosses a 90-degrees corner really fast?
[close]
:P


Calin Leafshade

nope, straight across the middle, right past the sharks

Crimson Wizard


Oh wait, another answer:
Spoiler
there's no water
[close]

Calin Leafshade

nope, full of water, in fact the sharks are circling him.

NsMn

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:06:13A box with no hinges, key or lid, but precious treasure within is hid.

Spoiler
That doesn't work with "precious", it has to be "golden", Calin.
[close]

But, for your other puzzle:

Spoiler
He doesn't walk THROUGH the pool. The puzzle says he goes "from one side to another".
[close]

Anyway, here's another riddle for you:

5 men and 3 women are in a dark room, no doors and windows, the walls are 1m thick, there's a locked emergency exit. There's a tube in the middle of the room; 2m high, and in this pipe there's a tennis ball, nearly as wide in diameter as the tube.
Hidden in this ball is the key for the exit. The group has: 30 cm of wire, one short piece of wood, one bottle of sand, some shells and a pocket knife. How can the people escape?

(it's another old one, I know).

Calin Leafshade

#41
Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 18:30:16
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:06:13A box with no hinges, key or lid, but precious treasure within is hid.

Spoiler
That doesn't work with "precious", it has to be "golden", Calin.
[close]

Did it from memory.. bite me.

Quote
But, for your other puzzle:

Spoiler
He doesn't walk THROUGH the pool. The puzzle says he goes "from one side to another".
[close]


Nope. he walks straight down the middle, through the water.

Quote
Anyway, here's another riddle for you:

5 men and 3 women are in a dark room, no doors and windows, the walls are 1m thick, there's a locked emergency exit. There's a tube in the middle of the room; 2m high, and in this pipe there's a tennis ball, nearly as wide in diameter as the tube.
Hidden in this ball is the key for the exit. The group has: 30 cm of wire, one short piece of wood, one bottle of sand, some shells and a pocket knife. How can the people escape?

(it's another old one, I know).

Why is the sex important? If they use their penises for ANY purpose I'm never speaking to you again.

EDIT
Spoiler
they ask Jigsaw why the new saw movies seriously lack imagination
[close]

Anian

#42
Are those shells as in gun ammo or as in sea shells? In any case, I'd bet ya Bear Grills would get out of there, not to mention MacGuyver.  :P

@Calin: gender is improtant cause the room is dark and, let's face it, there's no better pick up line than "You know, we might not ever make it out of here..."
I don't want the world, I just want your half

NsMn

Gun ammo....  YEAH, YOU WISH!

It's normal sea shells. Oysters to be specific.

LRH

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 18:48:15
Gun ammo....  YEAH, YOU WISH!

It's normal sea shells. Oysters to be specific.
Aw, well damnit. If I had mussel shells we'd be out in an instant :<

NsMn

*giggles*.

C'mon. The answer is stupidly easy.

Snarky

Quote from: tzachs on Fri 09/04/2010 14:22:52
100 men are being kept captive by a big, bad, ugly witch. The witch tells them: "Tomorrow I'm gonna put you in a straight line, one in front of the other, where each one will see all of the guys in front of him and not the guys before him.  I will put a hat on each of you, it will be either black or white, with no other limitations (it can be 50/50 or 100/0, everything goes). Each man, from the last in the line (the guy who sees all the rest) until the first one (the guy who sees no one) will have to guess the color of his hat, if he succeeds, he lives,  if he fails, he dies."

The 100 guys have all night to plan together their tactics. What do they need to do in order to rescue the most guys possible (and what is the most guys possible to be rescued)?

The last guy in line (first to answer) guesses white if he sees an even number of white hats, and black if he sees an odd number. That allows the next person to subtract the number of white hats he sees and deduce his own color. Using this information, then next person can deduce his color, and so on.

This guarantees 99 of them to escape, and gives the 100th man a 50:50 chance.

tzachs

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:02:06
A man gets into a swimming pool, naked with some man-eating sharks and walks from one side of the pool to the other without being hurt. How?
That's not the question, the question is, why?

And maybe:
Spoiler

He's going in with a man that eats sharks?
[close]

Ali

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 18:53:44
*giggles*.

C'mon. The answer is stupidly easy.

Spoiler
If there's no door, they walk out through the space where the door would be.
[close]

Dualnames

Here's a cool one. If the answer is 42, what's the question? :o
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

NsMn

@Ali: Hee hee. No  :P

@Dualnames: I knew this was coming... the question is 13,37 by Pi.

Anian

Quote from: Snarky on Fri 09/04/2010 18:55:08
The last guy in line (first to answer) guesses white if he sees an even number of white hats, and black if he sees an odd number. That allows the next person to subtract the number of white hats he sees and deduce his own color. Using this information, then next person can deduce his color, and so on.

This guarantees 99 of them to escape, and gives the 100th man a 50:50 chance.
But this works if there is the same number of black and white hats, I might've missed where it says that.
I don't want the world, I just want your half

OneDollar

Quote from: OneDollar on Fri 09/04/2010 14:18:21
There are an even number of coins on a table, and there are the same number of coins with heads up as tails up. Your task is to separate the coins into two piles, where the number of heads up in each pile is equal. The problem is you are blindfolded and can't tell which way up each coin is facing. How do you do it?

@Stupot
Yes, you have to divide all the coins into the two piles.

@Stupot and NsMn
There can be any number of coins, there's no hidden conditions.

And no, you don't balance them on their edges ;)

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 18:30:16
5 men and 3 women are in a dark room, no doors and windows, the walls are 1m thick, there's a locked emergency exit. There's a tube in the middle of the room; 2m high, and in this pipe there's a tennis ball, nearly as wide in diameter as the tube.
Hidden in this ball is the key for the exit. The group has: 30 cm of wire, one short piece of wood, one bottle of sand, some shells and a pocket knife. How can the people escape?

Spoiler
Emergency exits will open from the inside even when they're locked?
[close]

NsMn

@OneDollar

Spoiler
What? They do? I've never seen one that can always be opened from the inside. Just imagine it's a locked oor then  :P
[close]

Snarky

Quote from: anian on Fri 09/04/2010 19:02:59
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 09/04/2010 18:55:08
The last guy in line (first to answer) guesses white if he sees an even number of white hats, and black if he sees an odd number. That allows the next person to subtract the number of white hats he sees and deduce his own color. Using this information, then next person can deduce his color, and so on.

This guarantees 99 of them to escape, and gives the 100th man a 50:50 chance.
But this [only] works if there is the same number of black and white hats, I might've missed where it says that.

No, it works regardless. It's based only on the fact that there are only two colors available. The last man counts the number of white hats in front of him. Let's say he comes to an even number, so he says "white".

The man in front of him counts the number of white hats he sees. If it's an even number, he knows that his own hat can't be white, if it's an odd number he knows it must be white.  Let's say he sees an odd number, so he also says "white".

Now the next man counts how many hats he sees. He knows that the last man saw an even number, but that the man behind him was wearing a white hat, so without his it must have been an odd number. Let's say he sees an odd number, so he knows he can't be wearing a white hat himself, so he says "black".

...And so it goes. Each man must remember what the first man to speak said, keep count of how many white hats he sees himself, and how many people behind him (apart from the first one) have said "white". That's enough to deduce the color of his own hat.

Of course, they could make a rule about counting the black hats instead; it doesn't make a difference as long as they're all counting the same thing.

OneDollar

#55
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:02:06
A man gets into a swimming pool, naked with some man-eating sharks and walks from one side of the pool to the other without being hurt. How?

Spoiler
He's at Seaworld, going through the shark tunnel?
[close]

@NsMn
Is the tube fixed to the floor?

LRH

Sometimes a visual helps.


Calin Leafshade

basically I was lying about the sharks.. its just an empty pool..

LRH

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 19:57:00
basically I was lying about the sharks.. its just an empty pool..
???

Best riddle ever.

Questionable

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Fri 09/04/2010 18:02:06
A man gets into a swimming pool, naked with some man-eating sharks and walks from one side of the pool to the other without being hurt. How?
They're Banking Shark on Vacation in the Virgin Islands?

Quote from: Dualnames on Fri 09/04/2010 19:00:17
Here's a cool one. If the answer is 42, what's the question? :o
DAFS n00b


@NsMn

The best thing to do would be to piss in the tube, now it would take roughly 30-38 full bladders to COMPLETELY overflow the tube put we don't need that. The bottle of sand should have the volume of several fuller bladders and will increase the volume. The shells are almost entirely worthless as they won't be able to get behind the tennis ball, even once it is free floating, I would fold the wire in half and twist the ends, then wrap both end of the wire around your hand, in the middle. This will create an ellipse , shape it into a circle, ideally the same size as the inner diameter of the tube. Now, lower the wire in careful to not not drop it and wiggle it around the (now elevated) tennis ball. Once you are underneath pull equally from both of the twisted ends, this will force the wire to tighten and ultimately shrink the size of the circle you created in the wire. With maybe 2 attempt you won't completely collapse the wire circle and will simply shrink it instead. now you can gingerly lift the tennis ball the remaining few inches/centimeters (the ball should be just under a foot away or higher.)

Once the ball is out you can cut open the tennis ball using the knife, at this point crush up the sea shells, throw the framents into the air and shout "Confetti" as you unlock the door and escape.
All my trophies have disappeared... FINALLY! I'm free!

Questionable

Quote from: Domithan on Fri 09/04/2010 19:51:36
Sometimes a visual helps.



I thought the pipe was 2m high? If this is accurate it completely throws off my calculations...
All my trophies have disappeared... FINALLY! I'm free!

LRH

Quote from: Questionable on Fri 09/04/2010 20:04:56
Quote from: Domithan on Fri 09/04/2010 19:51:36
Sometimes a visual helps.



I thought the pipe was 2m high? If this is accurate it completely throws off my calculations...

Author's Note: Not drawn to scale. In fact, 'drawn' in about 37 seconds.

discordance

Here's the riddle I always pull out on these occasions. It's super old but maybe somebody hasn't heard it yet! (Hope springs eternal.)

So there's this explorer dude (named Bill) traveling through the vast wilderness of Hedge Maze Country.  He's trying to get to a small village called True Happiness (his grandma lives there). He happens to know that Hedge Maze Country is inhabited by two tribes. The tribes are identical except for one important feature: The first tribe always tells the truth, and the second tribe always lies. Never heard that one before, have you? :)

After a long time he comes to a crossroads that isn't on his map. He knows that one route leads to True Happiness, and the other to Despair and Destruction, but he doesn't know which is which and doesn't want to waste hours of his life going to wrong way. Luckily, there's a tribesman standing at the crossroads, so Bill decided to ask him which is the right road. The thing is that Bill likes to make little challenges for himself. He doesn't know whether the tribesman is from the Truth Tribe or the Lying Tribe, but he's only going to ask the tribesman one question. Based on the answer, he will know which road leads to True Happiness.

What is the question he asks?

NsMn

As I did try to ask this before:

Spoiler
"What would the other tribe say if I asked them what the path of Happiness is?"
[close]

Only problem: IT DOESN'T WORK!

discordance

Yeah, there's a much better answer than that :)

OneDollar

#65
Quote from: Questionable on Fri 09/04/2010 20:03:47
The best thing to do would be to piss in the tube

If you kill one of the people with the knife, there'd be more than enough blood...

Alternatively sit around and eat oysters until the puzzle setter gets frustrated and tells you how to do it.


Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 20:13:04
As I did try to ask this before:

Spoiler
"What would the other tribe say if I asked them what the path of Happiness is?"
[close]

Only problem: IT DOESN'T WORK!
Why not?
Spoiler
If the guy's lying he'll tell you the opposite of what the truthful tribe would say, ie the opposite of the right path. If he's telling the truth he'll tell you what the lying tribe would say, ie the wrong path. Either way you take the opposite path to the one he says.
[close]

NsMn

BOOM.

That was the sound of my brain exploding. And that means something, as I'm a genius.

Still, yes, Q is right - the people simply pee in the tube until they can grab the ball. Every other condition is completely useless (even though they could've also killed someone else with the knife and use his blood).

Questionable

Quote from: NsMn on Fri 09/04/2010 21:39:14
BOOM.

That was the sound of my brain exploding. And that means something, as I'm a genius.

Still, yes, Q is right - the people simply pee in the tube until they can grab the ball. Every other condition is completely useless (even though they could've also killed someone else with the knife and use his blood).

You see- I was assuming that each of them had or was cpable of getting a full bladder once. If they're trapped in a room there probably wouldn't be much more than one full bladder each, unless there's a tap nearby. Bladders + Sand, only gets the tennis ball slightly less than 2/3 up the pipe, so either they need more piss, a wire, or they could each give up about 3 pints of blood for an extra 7 liters and over flow the pipe and all walk out feeling a bit light headed but more than just alive: free!



@Ali:

So they can't say any word besides the color of the hat, so to expand on your thesis they simple say the color of the hat a specific way. If they ASk the color of the hat:

"White?"  That means the guy in front has a Black hat. However, if they state the color of their hat:
"White." That means the guy in front has a White hat.
"Black?" = Next guy having Black.
"Black." = Next guy having White.

In this case you can certify a 99 survival rate with the first man (the captain/leader willing to gamble his life) having a 50/50 chance. That's the greatest quantity you could GUARANTEE, but they all might live.


@NsMn:  He's right it does work, but I would ask: "Which direction would someone from the opposite tribe tell me is the way to Happiness City?" Lets assume that LEFT is the right way and that RIGHT is the wrong way. If this man is a truth-teller he will tell me that a Liar would have me go RIGHT. If he is a liar, he knows that a truth-teller would tell me to go LEFT (being the correct direction) and so he will instead lie about this and tell me to go "RIGHT." At this point you can stab him, gain 5XP, level up, loot his corpse and travel LEFT (or the opposite direction of wherever they told you to go.)

There is a similar riddle:

Four men on Safari are kidnapped by a savage tribe. The tribal leader says that these men will serve as a sacrifice to gain favor with the Lizard God, Hemotauk. But he tells the men that it is ritual to have them decide their own fate. He will let them speak their minds collectively one one matter and if it determined that they speak a lie they will be boiled alive, one at a time. If however, what they speak is determined by the elder council to hold wisdom of truth, they will only be burned alive, one at a time. The tribe had a feast to celebrate the coming visitation by the lizard god, who was to eat the cooked and prepared bodies of the men. Throughout the night they discussed many plans of action and finally resolved on one. The time came and the tribal leader asked them to gain favor with the spirits: "Speak the truth and your death will be less painful and make a more delicious meal for the lizard god! Lie to us, and be slowly boiled and gain disfavor with Hemotauk, thus you will be forced to wander the eternal space between the stars, never becoming ones yourselves, always longing for death. SPEAK NOW!" The leader of the men cleared his throat and spoke a statement so powerful the tribal leaders determined to free the men and instead sacrifice the Tribal Leader by boiling him alive! What did the men say that set them free?

And no- they did not say: "We promise to blow the shit out of each and every male villager and then NEVER RETURN, if you set us free!"
All my trophies have disappeared... FINALLY! I'm free!

Snarky

Quote from: Questionable on Fri 09/04/2010 22:11:28
So they can't say any word besides the color of the hat, so to expand on your thesis they simple say the color of the hat a specific way. If they ASk the color of the hat:

"White?"  That means the guy in front has a Black hat. However, if they state the color of their hat:
"White." That means the guy in front has a White hat.
"Black?" = Next guy having Black.
"Black." = Next guy having White.

In this case you can certify a 99 survival rate with the first man (the captain/leader willing to gamble his life) having a 50/50 chance. That's the greatest quantity you could GUARANTEE, but they all might live.

It sort of defeats the purpose of the problem, though, and besides, I already posted the correct answer.

To make it slightly more difficult, what if the witch gave them hats of THREE different colors? What is their best strategy, and how many men are guaranteed to live if they follow it correctly?

(Once you solve it for three colors you should be able to generalize to any number of different-colored hats.)

Chicky


Jim Reed

#70
Well, about the hat problem:
Let's say that we have 16 colours of hats!
Let's also say that each person can say only one colour and that there are rules about stating that colour, which prohibits any kind of voice or gesture or other similar act so they can't cheat.

Well, if the first mans mother was a librarian, they would all have big heads, and thus need no hats, but if all of this was happening in Russia, they would all have red hats. Simple! Also, if it was in Russia, they would all die or live, as they are commies and all of that.

Though you didn't say there was a time limit, so they could all keep silent and live forever.

Village:
Ask the man does he have a black or a white hat on his head. If he says "white", you need to go right, and if he says "white" you need to go up one level. You can also draw him a butterfly.

Now, for my riddle, what has three legs like a piano, has a piano looking keys, makes music like a piano, is standing in the middle of the room like a piano, but infact, it's not a piano or any kind of close relative to the piano?

Also, what has three legs like a piano, keys like a piano, sounds like a piano, but is standing on the wall?

Edit:
On second thought, if the hat people were all standing in a very dark room they could all say they are wearing black hats and as there is no way to check, they would all live. The very dark room would have to have a tube and a tennis ball.

Anian

#71
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 09/04/2010 23:29:25
It sort of defeats the purpose of the problem, though, and besides, I already posted the correct answer.
How is randomly chosen color of hats solved by counting the other hats and guess there's an odd or even number...your solutions assumes there's an equal number of hats, does it not?
I don't get it.
EDIT: oh, kept reading it wrong, my apologies
I don't want the world, I just want your half

NsMn

Quote from: Jim Reed on Sat 10/04/2010 00:56:13
Now, for my riddle, what has three legs like a piano, has a piano looking keys, makes music like a piano, is standing in the middle of the room like a piano, but infact, it's not a piano or any kind of close relative to the piano?

Also, what has three legs like a piano, keys like a piano, sounds like a piano, but is standing on the wall?

That's a tough one... is this really serious?
Spoiler
Is it a computer on a stool maybe...?
[close]

Jasmine

Quote from: Questionable on Fri 09/04/2010 22:11:28
Four men on Safari are kidnapped by a savage tribe....What did the men say that set them free?

Spoiler
"I am lying."
[close]

SSH

Quote from: OneDollar on Fri 09/04/2010 14:18:21
Hah, I didn't solve it I just rewrote Crimson's answer ;D. I've seen the puzzle before though.

OK, Googling brings up this one:

There are an even number of coins on a table, and there are the same number of coins with heads up as tails up. Your task is to separate the coins into two piles, where the number of heads up in each pile is equal. The problem is you are blindfolded and can't tell which way up each coin is facing. How do you do it?

I'm amazed no-one has answered this yet:

Spoiler

Divide the coins in to two equal piles and turn all the coins in one pile over.

So with 2n coins, pile A would have x heads then pile B would have n-x heads. Pile A would have n-x tails and pile B would have x tails. So turn all of pile B over and you have x heads on both sides.
[close]
12

Stupot

@SSH - D'oh! Damn, it's so obvious now you've said it.

Questionable

Quote from: Jasmine on Sun 11/04/2010 03:14:14
Quote from: Questionable on Fri 09/04/2010 22:11:28
Four men on Safari are kidnapped by a savage tribe....What did the men say that set them free?

Spoiler
"I am lying."
[close]

Good answer! I suppose that would work! Not the one I came up with, but that would actually work!
All my trophies have disappeared... FINALLY! I'm free!

Ali

What has twelve legs and walks in its sleep?

tzachs

Quote from: Ali on Sun 11/04/2010 13:46:18
What has twelve legs and walks in its sleep?

What has twelve breasts and walks in my sleep?

Ali


NsMn

@SSH & OneDollar ...Now I'm kind of pissed, it was obvious to me that you're NOT aloowed to turn them around.

OneDollar

@SSH
Yep, that's correct :D

@NsMN
You can do what you like to them, you just have no way of telling which way up they are.

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