There has been a lot of discussion about the panel review of the McCarthy Chronicles.
I think it's best we discuss the function of the panel review in a new thread.
One problem for me is, that its some kind of distortion of competition. Some games get a quick good panel rating and that boosts the download a lot. But other games have to wait several months. The panel review is a sole opinion that influences the advertence for a game a lot.
I thought that the user ratings and good comments are the main influence for high downloads. But since I have released a game with a really high user rating (86%) and nice comments there must be something wrong with my theory. Even games with a one-cup-rating and comments that basicly say "this game is unplayable" have about the same number of downloads.
Well, I'm not sure what influences the dls the most, but it seems like the panel review is a stronger factor than the user ratings and in my opinion the user ratings are more representative.
I think the whole point of it being a 'panel' is that it isnt a sole opinion. it's the opinion of the 'panel' which should be more than one person.
If its just a single person offering their opinion then yes i agree the ratings are arbitrary.
Also i think its the purpose of the panel to review a games 'quality'. The rating system is to allow gamers to find games with a high degree of polish and professionalism. I think this is slightly different to a normal review but perhaps im wrong on that.
As for the order in which the panel reviews the game ideally it should be a kinda FIFO system but really you cant force the panel to review a game they dont want to play particularly.
Just opened a thread here.... (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=39595.0) :-
Quote from: Leon on Wed 16/12/2009 09:52:14
Just opened a thread here.... (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=39595.0) :-
I'm not sure whether the topic is more 'generel' or 'adventure related'.
But we should close one and discuss this only one time.
I thought it had more to do with organization, although it can be adventurous... ;)
Since it's about judging AGS-Games I thought it's adventure related. But I see the discussion goes on in the other thread, so let's close this one.
Quote from: Helme on Wed 16/12/2009 09:30:58
One problem for me is, that its some kind of distortion of competition. Some games get a quick good panel rating and that boosts the download a lot. But other games have to wait several months. The panel review is a sole opinion that influences the advertence for a game a lot.
I thought that the user ratings and good comments are the main influence for high downloads. But since I have released a game with a really high user rating (86%) and nice comments there must be something wrong with my theory. Even games with a one-cup-rating and comments that basicly say "this game is
I honestly don't think the panel's rating doesn't affect the download count/game's "success" by as much as you are suggesting (Not to say it doesn't, and not to undermine the significance of having such a thing). Take for example A Second Face - The Eye of Geltz is Watching Us (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=detail&id=1115); despite it having a middling rating of 3 cups, it consistently outperforms games with higher panel ratings in terms of download count, and as you mentioned, often low rated games will get similar downloads to middling rated ones.
Again, not to suggest it isn't a factor, but I believe it's one of the smaller factors regarding download count (if we're using this as a measure of "success").
The interesting thing is, "A Second Face" was initially rated 5 cups and later degraded to 3 cups
Quote from: Ben304 on Wed 16/12/2009 11:58:51
Take for example A Second Face - The Eye of Geltz is Watching Us (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=detail&id=1115); despite it having a middling rating of 3 cups, it consistently outperforms games with higher panel ratings in terms of download count, and as you mentioned, often low rated games will get similar downloads to middling rated ones.
A Second Face has 3 awards including best game. Comparing dls of a multiple award winner or of a pick of the month with other games is tricky.
Before releasing 'Cold Meat' I assumed that User ratings are much more important than panel reviews for the dls, but at least for the last months, it's not true. Maybe I overrate the influence of the panel. I just want to understand what makes games interesting to download, but I'm stumped.
And I take dls as a measure for advertence. Personally the most important thing for me are the comments. It shows that a game moved someone.
Quote from: Helme on Wed 16/12/2009 12:50:33
I just want to understand what makes games interesting to download, but I'm stumped.
Really? In my opinion, it is a mix of having good comments, a summary that draws the player in and of course a screenshot that shows a game that makes you say "I want to play that" (I know it's probably controversial to suggest that graphics are such an important factor, but having a good screenshot is very important when I look for games to play, I am sure I'm not in the minority here).
Probably the biggest factor, though, is where your game gets mentioned. Games that get attention outside of the AGS community generally get way more downloads than those that don't get mentioned outside of this circle.
Quote from: Ben304 on Wed 16/12/2009 13:03:01
Really? In my opinion, it is [...] a screenshot that shows a game that makes you say "I want to play that" (I know it's probably controversial to suggest that graphics are such an important factor, but having a good screenshot is very important when I look for games to play, I am sure I'm not in the minority here).
I don't think it's going too far at all to suggest that graphics are a major factor to do with downloads. I mean, let's face it, while graphics don't make a game, they pimp the hell out of it. If someone has beautiful artwork in their game, people are going to want to download it, because the effort put into the game is in plain sight and it looks more professional as a whole.
Eye-candy is the only element displayed in a screenshot, not the music or gameplay, so when you look at the synopsis of the game, you might say "That sounds like an interesting story" and a good screenshot will suggest that it is told well also.
Quote from: Scarab on Wed 16/12/2009 14:34:28
If someone has beautiful artwork in their game, people are going to want to download it, because the effort put into the game is in plain sight and it looks more professional as a whole.
To add to your point. Having beautiful artwork doesn't necessarily mean that the game is going to be good. I mean if you could make a game with Mozart's greatest hits playing in the background, but that doesn't always mean you will have everything else in the game of that standard. Although a game with Salvador DalÃ's artwork, Mike Otfield's music and an Egar Allan Poe story then you have a game on your hands.
It's all down to judgement and personal opinion at the end of the day. If you are willing to play to find hidden gems(which are subjective to the player's needs) then it's your win, if you don't and only play games that have been given a Pimp overdose then, fair choice. Although personally I like to play with coal to find a diamond. Even if that diamond isn't perfect I still have fun at the end of the day.
Quote from: IndieBoy on Wed 16/12/2009 14:58:04
Quote from: Scarab on Wed 16/12/2009 14:34:28
If someone has beautiful artwork in their game, people are going to want to download it, because the effort put into the game is in plain sight and it looks more professional as a whole.
To add to your point. Having beautiful artwork doesn't necessarily mean that the game is going to be good. I mean if you could make a game with Mozart's greatest hits playing in the background, but that doesn't always mean you will have everything else in the game of that standard. Although a game with Salvador DalÃ's artwork, Mike Otfield's music and an Egar Allan Poe story then you have a game on your hands.
It's all down to judgement and personal opinion at the end of the day. If you are willing to play to find hidden gems(which are subjective to the player's needs) then it's your win, if you don't and only play games that have been given a Pimp overdose then, fair choice. Although personally I like to play with coal to find a diamond. Even if that diamond isn't perfect I still have fun at the end of the day.
Which is why I mentioned it would be a controversial point ;D
I think I was just elaborating. Sorry Ben. Got to get my post count up ;)
I think the point Ben was making was not that nice graphics make a game better, but they are likely to persuade people to download it, more than a game with lesser graphics.
Which is why I added to Scarab's point. (3 posts up in one day :=)
Quote from: markbilly on Wed 16/12/2009 15:26:59
I think the point Ben was making was not that nice graphics make a game better, but they are likely to persuade people to download it, more than a game with lesser graphics.
You made that point so much more elegantly there than I managed to with my post :D
Quote from: Scarab on Wed 16/12/2009 14:34:28
...graphics don't make a game, they [just] pimp the hell out of it...
Quote from: IndieBoy on Wed 16/12/2009 14:58:04
...Having beautiful artwork doesn't necessarily mean that the game is going to be good...
Quote from: markbilly on Wed 16/12/2009 15:26:59
I think the point Ben was making was not that nice graphics make a game better, but they are likely to persuade people to download it, more than a game with lesser graphics.
You know what gents... I think we're all arguing the same point... 8)
For Celtic Chaos 2, I took a lot more effort into the visuals, especially into the backgrounds. Let's see if that effort will work out. :-\
Ah, but players will always come for the eye candy, and leave just as quick if there's nothing else. In a community where so many oldfashioned, retro-drunken, EGA-worshipping guys clubber together, I always liked to think that graphics aren't the first thing people look at.
That would be boobs.
Quote from: Ghost on Wed 16/12/2009 18:42:15
In a community where so many oldfashioned, retro-drunken, EGA-worshipping guys clubber together, I always liked to think that graphics aren't the first thing people look at.
Well, I also hoped that this is true.
Quote from: Ghost on Wed 16/12/2009 18:42:15
That would be boobs.
I knew I missed some important key to succes ::).
I too think it's more than just a matter of cup rating. The way the game is presented, the screenshots, the persons behind the games, building a hype before the release, having a fan community, being the pick-of-the-month, winning AGS awards and more importantly, promoting your game outside this forum, on places like TIGSource, Indiegames.com or other adventure game communities... all this affect the number of downloads much more than the cup or user rating do.
What blueskirt said is 100% true. If you want more downloads then you really need to circulate beyond the confines of the ags forums. You can't keep hoping that cool people from Yesterday's Salad, etc, will do all the work for you by coming here :).
Thanks for the hints for other game-communities. Seems like I have to learn some things about PR.
QuoteThat would be boobs.
Slaughtered boobs to be precise ;)
I think McCarthy does deserve a 4 cup rating, it's indeed a must play.
Sorry Dually but i dont believe McCarthy to be a 4 cup game. It simply doesnt match the production quality and the enjoyment of the other 4 cuppers
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Thu 17/12/2009 17:27:08
Sorry Dually but i dont believe McCarthy to be a 4 cup game. It simply doesnt match the production quality and the enjoyment of the other 4 cuppers
First only Snake has the right to alter my nick :D
Secondly I'd love you to answer on my reply on the other topic.
lol... sorry sir.
But Dual, we called you Dual on stickam. :=
Boobs...stickam... I think the conversation is really now in this thread:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=39595.0
;)