Age old question: Action Sequences within Adventure Games

[Quintaros]

My own preference as a player is to never have control taken away from me.Ã,  I'm pulled out of the experience by cutscenes in which my character takes actions that I didn't get to make him do.Ã, 

As a designer I try to create the experience that I would want most as a player.Ã,  But I also want to create an experience that would appeal to the broadest audience possible (at least in terms of gameplay…perhaps not story-wise).

I know a lot of purist adventure game players detest action sequences in their adventure games.Ã,  So how many of you AGSers are purists?Ã,  Would you rather have a cutscene depict an action sequence or have the chance to play through it yourself?Ã,  The stock answer to this question is that action sequences are okay as long as I make them skippable.Ã,  But if everyone who plays is going to skip it anyway, why should I labour to program it?Ã, 

I suppose what it could very well come down to as a player is, “How good are the action sequences?”.Ã,  I'd rather have 2 tools that each did 1 task well, than 1 tool that did both tasks poorly.Ã,  Ã,  If you are an action enthusiast, would a weak action sequence in an adventure game be better off skipped?

[Vel]

Well in my opinion action sequences are OK, just as long as the player has to actually do something and think quick(not as in BS3, when you just had to press the button quickly) and he either gets back to the last safe place after he dies or there is a clear indication that this place is perfect to make a savegame.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Me says no action sequences at all, unless they're done like BS3 - about the only action-sequence-packed game I really enjoyed. It was a "token" thing, just there so they could say "hey, the player had control". VERY limited control, but that's OK, because it's an ADVENTURE game I'm playing. It also had other action sequences, like chases, which, though numerous, were all short (and very action-packed!).

Bottom-line: methinks BS3 made it perfect. Disclaimer: this is just me.

[Ponch]

Although some people really seem to hate them, I don't mind action sequences one bit. The first Gabriel Knight zombie attack sequence actually shocked me enough to make me sit up straight! It was so out of left field and unexpected (though totally appropriate given the scene) that I was completely surprised when I suddenly found myself running for my life in an african tomb.

Shadow of the Comet had another nice catacomb chase that I remember rather vividly. Given all the Lovecraftian styled languidly paced research and somber nosing about with dusty, musty things prior to that scene, I have to admit I liked the chase through the catacombs with that giant man/worm close on my heels.

Action scenes can give a game just the right "oomph" if it fits the scene and doesn't feel tacked on. Too much action, however can get in the way - witness the demolition derby bit in Full Throttle. I mean, I knew how to solve the puzzle but the other cars wouldn't leave me alone long enough to do it!

On a related note, I liked Full Throttles "Old Mine Road" puzzle where the action sequences actually had a simple puzzle element built in: You had to figure out what weapon would be best used against which opponent. Clever and fun.

But any action scene should have either an auto-save before hand or a clear set-up that danger is imminent and you should think about saving your game. That just shows the player that you're not out to get him or waste his valuable playing time. (And yes, I know that my own game The Armageddon Eclair didn't have auto-saves before it's arcade bits. I didn't know how to do that at the time!)

Just my two cents

- Ponch

[Vizzerdrix]

I personally don't mind having some action sequences in adventure games, sometimes it help to keep to create the atmosphere and keep the game realist. Full Throttle would probably have been totally different if it wasn't for the biker fightings.

Best suggestions I can give you, but you probably already know about 'em:
If it's possible to die during the sequence, warn the player before the sequence to give him the possibility to save his game. Add a "skip action sequence" button for those who don't like 'em, and make a little animation to show what happen during the sequence when you skip it. There's nothing worst than skipping a sequence and don't have a clue about what happened during the sequence. Final advice, don't put an action sequence near the end or at the very end of the game, that's frustrating, and it remove most of the satisfaction you get when you finish a game.

EDIT:
Note to self, next time, take less than 45 minutes to type a reply.

[Babar]

I never understood what so many people had against action sequences. I always thought of them as a fun break from regular play, and enjoyed them alot. People should realise that the character they are controlling is supposed to be in a simulated world, wear things could very well happen in real time.
There are so many action sequences in games, fitting so well into the gameplay that some people don't even notice them. Sam 'n Max- the Wak-a-rat game, Curse of Monkey Island- the canon firing bit. Some places were the game would be odd if they didn't have action- Full throttle, Indiana Jones.

The thing about these was that you could not die if you lost. But even if you die, it shouldn't matter. Perhaps one thing that action sequences should have is a restart button as well as a skip button. If the player feels like they are about to lose (or have lost), they should be able to try again.

[Potch]

Well, I have never liked action sequences in adventure games.   Mostly, it's because I have never been good at them.  The reason I always liked adventure games, was because I could actually play them and win!  I have just never been any good at anything else.  I mean, every once in a while, I'll play an action game, not get very far, and give up.  then I go back to my adventures.  I like using logic to solve the puzzles, rather than using reflexes (which on me have never been that great!).  Especially games involving fighting... like Quest for glory and KQ8.  I finished those, but I didn't like them as much as other games that didn't have that. 

Just my two cents. :-)

[Mr Flibble]

What about Fate of Atlantis? I loved the action sequences is those.
Instead of saying "You cannot walk here because the guard is too strong" FoA lets you chance it, and try to beat the guard. And for the really hard guards, there was always a way around. Like crushing Arnold with the boulder, or whipping a gun out of hands.
And the car chase was cool, because it felt like a Hollwood Blockbuster car chase.

The Last Crusade action sequences were a little more formulaic. For example, if you want the money for the Zepplin, you need to fight the white haired guard (theres two BTW) but you can only do this if you got the first aid kit from down the hall.

[Radiant]

I don't mind action sequences per se, but they are often too easy to be a challenge. Also, they must be integrated in the story somehow; in too many games (SQ3, Future Wars) they feel tacked-on. Indy does a good job there, though.

[Abisso]

The answer can't be given properly if not knowing what kind of game yours will be.

As Babar said, fight action sequences in the Indiana Jones games were great, and, most of all, well fitted, or I could say "required". Fighting well, there, could give a different approach to the game, but it was not necessary, cause almost all fights were avoidable with a good use of the tongue, or the mind.

I think this is a perfect example of how to implement a/s in an adventure game.

Anyway, funny and laughing games such MI and DOTT, don't need a/s at all.

Game's style is the problem, so.

[quintaros at work]

The answer can't be given properly if not knowing what kind of game yours will be.

That's fair enough.Ã, 

Action is a neccesary element in my story and so its really just a question of whether its better to include the action element's as cutscenes or as playable sequences.Ã, 

Certainly I am not planning to tack on arbitrary action sequences just for their own sake.

[Radiant]

Certainly I am not planning to tack on arbitrary action sequences just for their own sake.

Of course that's been the downfall of several game companies - having some sort of manager (or marketer) who doesn't really have a clue about gaming, and who pushes the tacking-on of arbitrary hype. So enjoy being an indie!

[Andail]

The only really good action sequence was the mortal kombat parody in Space Quest 6.
Apart from that one, most of them are pretty superfluous.

[Afflict]

Actions sequences like broken sword were kinda cool you did something and then they play you a nice little cutscene...
I enjoyed the rather awesome looking graphics. (at the time)

But i might be confusing the following:
Actions sequence/ Cutscene.

Same thing?

[rharpe]

I feel that "action sequences" are essential. They help tell the story. It reminds the player from time to time what is going on. To direct a character through a whole adventure without a sequence would lose the players interest...   

[Scummbuddy]

yeah, there needs to be a specification as to if we're talking about cutscenes which are almost always a good idea, and action sequences, like ben on his bike through the old mine road, or sam and max using the whack-a-rat....

[quintaros at work]

yeah, there needs to be a specification as to if we're talking about cutscenes which are almost always a good idea, and action sequences...

I'm not certain how to be more specific.Ã,  People generally use commercial game examples to demonstrate their points, but I almost never know the game that they are referencing.

In my case, I am making a game that's story contains action elements.Ã,  That is to say that in the story, the protagonist will encounter situations where he must fight, flee, jump etc.Ã,  These sequences are important for maintaining the flow of the story and will be included in one of 2 ways.Ã,  Method 1) As a cutscene.Ã,  Control of the character will be removed from the player and the character's fights, chases, etc. will occur as a blocking animation.Ã,  Method 2) As a playable action sequence.Ã,  The player will maintain control over the character and have to perform the actions himself.

At any rate I feel as if I have my answer.Ã,  Most people who replied seemed open to playable action sequences with a few restrictions that are easy enough to meet.Ã,  Those who didn't reply, I assume are indifferent and won't really mind action sequences either.

[stuh505]

It seems the action sequences are often just like a form of puzzle with a time limit.  You have to jump behind the pedestal before the guard sees you...you have to step off the rock before it falls...you have to jump up and grab the eagle as it soars down.  These seem to still be logic-based puzzles in some cases.  In games with fighting, I think that this has a good side and a bad side.  The good side being that when you do the fighting, you are able to get into character more, because you contributed to winning the fight...it wasn't a predetermined cutscene.  The bad side is the fighting might be very poorly implemented in an adventure game.  I think that in general the action sequences help to ramp up the excitement of the game.

[milkanannan]

As has already been said many times over, action sequences are fine as long as they fit the feel of the game.

Remember how out of place games like "Astro Chicken" were?  Or remember at the end of Leisure Suit Larry 3 when you had to ride that log down those rapids as Patti?

Those mini-games just slowed the progress of great adventures.  But that's just my opinion - perhaps I am a prune lol

[nihilyst]

I didn't like the action sequences in Broken Sword 3. Just pressing a button or running away in time was kind of shit. And when you didn't get it, you had to watch the whole sequence from the beginning and do it again. That was frustrating.

Nothing against action sequences, when you don't have to repeat the same cutscene over and over again, if you sucked.

But I think it'll be nothing to say against adventures without any action sequences.