AGS Awards 2013 Ceremony discussion

[Andail]

This attitude (insolent, if I may say so), just costed us the lone developer of the AGS Awards game (and previous MAGS organiser, blog writer, etc.). Can you say you two were more active in and for the community as he has been?

I really hope that wasn't actually a reply to my post, Bicilotti, because it doesn't make sense in a number of ways.

[Myinah]

So I'm not allowed to vocalise an opinion without working on a new awards ceremony game? Wow. I didn't realise my freedom to speak was based on giving free labour to an awards ceremony I was willing to boycott if necessary. I never said anything about wanting a game made specially for the awards, Bicilotti, so how about no? How about I am allowed to speak and contribute regardless. Don't be so ridiculous. And why would I want to work with someone who seems to hold such disdain for my views?

I would be happy to attend an entirely IRC awards ceremony if no game was made. I never asked for anything other than the lesbians to not be included, so I'm not sure why you are calling me out for having an opinion like I'm demanding a new AGS Awards game be made.

Dualnames chose to devote time to a well made engine. Many aspects of last night were wonderful and he should be congratulated for his excellent work. However I'm not going to ignore the fact that Dualnames has decided that getting upset about the lesbian gif is pathetic because he himself had no qualms with it. I am guessing you feel the same way. That is fine, you run the awards your way if that's what you want to do and I wont attend. I'm making a reasonable request for change, not being nasty or getting personal. My refusal to be segregated to an IRC boils down to the fact that it doesnt actually fix the problem of the content. Just because I cant see the lesbians doesnt mean I dont know they are there. I have no issues with a solely IRC ceremony, but why should women be pushed out over such a stupid gif? A joke didnt work, big deal. You apologised so why not take it out and move on instead of telling the people who dont like it to gtfo, or throwing your toys out the pram and leaving AGS?

I will stand by my opinion, respectfully disagree with yours and continue to make games.

[abstauber]

Take of this post what you think. This is my last one in this forum, I hope that makes you happy. So long and thanks for all the fish.

If rage-quitting is your way to deal with criticism, so be it. But I hope that you'll cool down and learn to relax.

btw. somebody should split this topic. (Done! -Snarky)

[ddq]

The ceremony reflected incredibly poorly on AGS as a community. The people defending the offensive immaturity in this thread make it seem like an accurate reflection.

[Grundislav]

Honestly, I was also a little put off by the constant "your mom" jokes and general immaturity, so much that I stopped paying attention after about 20 minutes. I appreciate that a lot of work and time were put into making the awards happen, but this year seemed like the most unprofessional one of all.

[bicilotti]

The ceremony reflected incredibly poorly on AGS as a community. The people defending the offensive immaturity in this thread make it seem like an accurate reflection.

Guess who was making a joke on the criticised joke two years ago.

(again: I have participated via IRC only this and last years, so I can't judge. And whatever offends/alienates newcomer to our community, we must change. But this seems hypocrisy)

[ddq]

Yep, two years ago. That is a past me. In the last two years, I did what duals should have done: left AGS and grew up.

[Snarky]

Three years, actually...

[Problem]

This attitude (insolent, if I may say so), just costed us the lone developer of the AGS Awards game (and previous MAGS organiser, blog writer, etc.). Can you say you two were more active in and for the community as he has been?
Does that mean he should be above criticism? Not at all, Sirs, not at all. But...  is really irony everything you got for him?

Honestly, I don't care. I didn't say anything rude, instead I've expressed my appreciation for his work twice in this thread. Most of the criticism here was remarkably low-key, and everyone seemed to agree that Dualnames did some great work with this award game. So I don't really get why he acted so offended in the first place. It's his decision if he takes such harmless criticism personally and makes such a drama out of it.

[Yeppoh]

Well. To be fair. He has the right to be offended about the weight this thread has put on the lesbians issue as much as the ones who had the right to be offended about the jokes around said lesbians during the ceremony.

[selmiak]

But beautiful women are nice to look at. If there are 2 of them, even better. I don't understand how a lesbian doesn't like to look at beautiful women. And even worse, they were't even nude!
So what's the fuzz all about? It's fun as a joke here and there, but the whole thing was very present and overdone, but also I think it was ment as an appreciation to the lifetime achievement winner. But I'm sure Ponch didn't ask for that, so I don't want to drag him in here in any way, rather congratulate again, it was Duals way of showing his praise I think. There are thousand of other and probably better ways to do this, but the person pushing the buttons got carried away and maybe had too much of the gin, I don't know. I'm not offended by this in any way, but I notice it was overdone.

Maybe next year we should include gay men making out? Will everyone feel comfortable with this?

If then there can still be beautiful girls this seems like an interesting experiment, I'm quite interested in the reactions to this. Also in my reaction. And also no nipples please
One of the reactions will probably be: cat wanted this. If you can life with that, I'm all for controversial social experiments

[Myinah]

Selmiak, here is a suggestion for you. Open google, click images, type "beautiful lesbians" in the search bar. Now you dont need it in the AGS game because you can have them on your very own computer! A revelation, I know! Then everyone can enjoy the awards and you still get to look at pretty women without making people uncomfortable and the awards seem juvenile.

[Calin Leafshade]

Dualnames Meltdown #14

I know that I, for one, will be incredibly insulted that you removed some lesbian images from something. So insulted.

[Yeppoh]

I feel like an outcast. Why do always people hop in a trendy bandwagon without me? I want to be offended too!

Duals, put button up shirts in the next build for the next Awards! I don't care if I'm the only one. Those things are disgusting!

[Calypso]

Edit: Apart from being objectifying and alienating to some community members, it was just... kinda tacky and out of place, you know? When you think of AGS, is "gratuitously sexualized" something that comes to mind? To me, it doesn't seem to represent what the community is about. Such a shame, when stuff like pixel Daft Punk really made it seem like a proper AGS party.

Honestly, I was also a little put off by the constant "your mom" jokes and general immaturity, so much that I stopped paying attention after about 20 minutes. I appreciate that a lot of work and time were put into making the awards happen, but this year seemed like the most unprofessional one of all.

I have to agree with this. Please, let's not make all this seem like it's some kind of a "hardcore feminist" issue (e.g. pretend like only females have a problem with some of the content), when that's clearly not the case. A lot of male members expressed similar views in this thread. Also, even if there WERE just females voicing their opinions, it shouldn't be devalued or dismissed because of that (unfortunately, it happens pretty often around the internets).

I don't understand all the unnecessary rage. The OP was very polite and didn't dismiss the ceremony as a whole, just expressed her views regarding certain aspects of it. Personally, I'm new to the forums and didn't get the lesbian joke at all - I didn't know what it was even about. I read the explanation for the first time in this thread. Still - not very funny, if you ask me, and it seemed very out of place and random. I don't know how many other newcomers were present there and how they felt about this, but to me, it felt kind of segregating.

I have nothing against humor (and I personally love black humor); I even think that it definitely has a place in the AGS ceremony, that the ceremony should include joking around and shouldn't be entirely serious. But, unfortunately, some of the jokes reminded me of my grade school years and not in a good way. And some of the jokes I wasn't even able to get as I wasn't present during the previous ceremonies. It's not like animated gifs and photos of two girls making out are known memes (the animated gif of Orson Welles, on the other hand… I laughed about that one). In the end, all the pointless sexual content just ended up looking very… immature. And btw. I also thought about the fact that there might be some actual lesbians present and was wondering how they felt about this (and cringed). Glad I got my answer.

I also don't understand the hostility towards people that are just expressing their opinions towards certain aspects of the ceremony. Why so much anger? It would be great to be able to have a civilized discussion about this. Instead, this thread escalated quickly into people announcing that they're leaving. I'm sure everyone appreciates what Dualnames (and other contributors to the application) have done. It was lovely and I made screenshots just to show other people how sweet it was. I also enjoyed the music, which was a very nice addition. It was generally a great idea and I definitely appreciate it.

Edit: Added additional stuff to explain myself more in depth.

[Peder 🚀]

Spoiler

[close]

*

[Mandle]

Or perhaps place a button to give everyone the power to censor images for themselves, be it for any reason such as: being offensive, kids-being-in-the-room, parents-being-in-the-room etc.

I was actually looking for such a button at the time so this is a great idea! I woke up at 5AM to attend the awards and it just so happened that my wife woke up just as the scene in question started to play on the screen. She didn't see the scene in question, but if she had she would have been sure to think I had been up all night watching porn. In this particular case this was simply not true!

We also have younger members in the community. I never saw a lower age limit (13+ etc) when you sign up for AGS so adult content should be pre-warned about at least.

So yeah, if controversial humor is to be included please give a way to self-censor it in the future.

[Ogon]

Kiira's seemed very appropriate and helpful, but I couldn't disagree more with just like every post made by Myinah except in parts for the first one (still over the top) Edit: actually, not even that one. That is all.

[BrutalSlakt]

(My comments are not strictly to the people I quote)

My friend AprilSkies told me it was all based on Eternally Us. I thought it over and, well, it still didn't make much sense to me. 

I don't always share Dualnames humour, but that does not mean I can decide what his jokes are about.
As Monsieur OUXX has already explained, the joke wasn't "tihi boobies" etc.
It's ok to not like the joke or not understand it etc, but deciding what his joke is about?
It's not really up to anyone else than Dualnames.
The joke originated with Eternally Us, and then people kept asking for lesbians.
He wanted to make the community members happy, just as you are asking of him now,
if it was wrong then, why should he do it now?
It was pointed out here in the thread that the audience cheering for lesbians wasn't appreciated also,
but this seems to have turned into some one way rage against Dualnames and that is just not fair at all.

What's even worse, you put on screen images of stereotypical lesbians.
Actually, they weren't even lesbians: they were just straight girls making out for the sake of male audience.

We surely have different views of what is a stereotypical lesbian, but does that really matter?
And why does it matter so much if they are not lesbians?

the gay for pay lesbians

Dualnames had women test the ceremony and say their opinions on the lesbian part (which they were ok with),
I also don't care about that part. So I'm quite uncomfortable that this thread is making it seem
like every woman in this community has a problem with it.
(though I guess not every woman since you only awknowledge two sexual orientations)

What I do have a problem with, especially when you are speaking up for women, is this negative attitude towards women that get paid to do sexual acts with other women regardless of their orientation.
Regular actors pretend to have other orientations all the time,
I don't mean that you should have a negative attitude towards them,
I'm just saying it's very hypocritical if you don't.
Maybe this is seen as off topic but since it seems to be a very important statement,
I feel it's ok for me to comment on this.

[Calypso]

Spoiler

[close]

*

What did you hide there, Peder? It just shows an empty spoiler...

Also, it seems like Dualnames deleted all his posts. Again, I think this kind of reaction wasn't necessary. Nobody wanted to "start a drama" - there will always be people that have different views and opinions and if they voice them politely, that should be viewed as fine. Instead, it was viewed as a personal attack and something to get extremely upset about. As if anything positive that was said about the ceremony suddenly doesn't have any effect.