AGS Awards continued...

[alkis21]

I'm probably breaking a few forum rules by doing this, but I hope moderators will understand my position and give me the right to defend myself. The "Awards nominations" thread was locked before I had the chance to answer quite a few direct attacks to me. Now there is a locked thread in the forum, full of insults and inaccuracies about me, right there for everyone to read. It gives a completely wrong picture of me and I respectfully ask for the opportunity to set things straight.
So.. first of all, I don't understand why some people are being so hostile against me. I think my post was expressed in a very polite manner. I was not looking for a fight and I didn't want to cause any trouble to the web site of a community I appreciate and admire. If we're going to continue this discussion, I'm sure we can do it in a civilized way.
Before I forget... please stop using the words 'Alkis' and 'pimp' in the same phrase.
Vel, you are right, most of my post in this forum are about Other Worlds. I know this doesn't look nice and believe me, I would love to join other discussions, but I'm afraid I don't have too much time in my hands. I try to read most of the threads though. If you look more carefully, you would notice that most of those posts are in the Hints and Tips section, where I tried to help people solve some puzzles. Almost all of my other posts were posted IN THE SAME THREAD. I fail to see how this can be considered "over-advertising" (I'm not saying the word). If that was my intention, I would have annoyed you with my game long before it was published, flooding the forum with posts about it. Instead, I was silent except for a brief period when I released a demo.
Why did I make Other Worlds? Because, like most people here I suppose, I've always wanted to make an adventure game. Praise and awards? Well, it's not like I get any money from it, so it feels nice to hear that some people liked it. Okay, maybe I was enthusiastic and I wanted to talk about my game. I didn't realize it was a crime.
I would like to point out once more that I was not *complaining*, I was *disappointed*, I thought the difference was obvious but I'm probably mistaken. I never said OW should have been nominated; I never said it was better than other nominees; I said that I was sorry it didn't get enough votes for "Best Story" and "Best Puzzles". How is that a complaint? Did I say "why did you vote for game X instead of mine, OW was better"? Of course not, that would be stupid!
LucasFan.. wow. You should work for a tabloid. I've never seen such a complete distortion of reality. Selecting sentences from specific posts to make me look bad? Do you dislike me that much? I really can't imagine what I did to provoke that kind of behaviour.
In my defense:

-About "My intention was to create the best amateur freeware game ever": I never said I succedeed, did I? I only told you what my intention was.

-About asking people to vote: A vote can be a positive or a negative thing. I was thirsty for feedback, that's all. I didn't say "vote if you liked my game". I wanted to know what people thought of it.

-About stating the number of people who downloaded it: So I felt good, and I wanted to share. I thought people would be happy to hear that an AGS game got noticed.

-About the Czech review: The fact alone that I posted about a negative review should tell you a lot.

-About my response to Ogre: Why don't you post what *exactly* he said? Ogre attacked me personally (much like you're doing now), not my game. Here's what he said:

"Who asked you to interfere? Hush, back to mama! A guy who doesn't even know my name and calls himself Alkis21 feels offended by me and cries a river... oh, poor boy!  You published a game with horrible graphics and now can't take the critics but cry for mama? If you release something for the public you must face the fire or keep it for yourself because you'll never be able to satsify everybody as you statedt yourself. "Eat or die" is a saying we have here, so don't be such a sissy. Whimps like you give me the creeps. You were not even trying to defend yourself you were just crying.. so again; Hush back to mama little kid!"

Now that puts my response to him under a totally new perspective, doesn't it? But of course you couldn't include his post, you had to make me look bad.
(for the record, the guy sent me an e-mail afterwards in which he apologized for everything he said)

In conclusion.. what can I say. I will only say that AGS was a God's gift to me, and I like this forum very much, too. If I offended some people by talking about my game too much I apologize, I honestly did not realize I was doing it and I would have stopped had I been told to. I'll try to join more discussions if that's what it takes to be accepted as a legitimate member. The last thing I want is people who think of me as a troublemaker. I'm ready to admit that I made mistakes, but I think some of the posts were too harsh and I would be delighted if the people who wrote them took the time to think them over.

[scotch]

I don't think you come across as a pimp at all, in fact, I had never heard of your game until that post (one reason why I didn't nominate it) so you can't have been pimping very much.  People read your post wrong that's all, it's time to let it lie though.

Oh, and I will check out your game soon.

[Potch]

Why did the other topic get locked?

[Kinoko]

Because it had all gotten a little out of hand, I think.

Alkis, I'm sorry you were so offended and I'm sorry we were all so harsh, but my comments stil stand. I was just trying to get you to realise that obsessing over scores and votes will only lead to disappointment. I DO think you were obsessing a bit too much. I DON'T think that's a crime, but it's not good for you. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier in general when you let things go and only think about the good comments you get from the game, and accept the bad ones as genuine criticism and try to use it to improve. Even when people are being narky (and a lot of people on the internet are just like that no matter what the issue), it's best to let it slide.

[alkis21]

That was a fair post, Kinoko. Thank you.

[Problem]

Sometimes I got the impression that you felt insulted be any kind of criticism. Not everyone who criticizes your work wants to insult you. I believe that criticism is the most important thing if you want to improve. It's nice to hear that people love your work, but it doesn't get you anywhere. Helpful criticism is everything you need to improve, maybe you should change your attitude towards that. Noone wants to insult you (except of some idiots you'll find in every forum, but just ignore them)

[SSH]

I think Other Worlds did have a low profile on these forums and hadn't been pimped here. Here's my suppositions as to why maybe it hadn't got a buzz about it:

1. It hadn't had a build up beforehand. Now, Cirque de Zale didn't either, it also "just appeared" on the forums but the difference was:

2. Other Worlds' screenshots don't sell the game. Now, this is no fault of alkis, but 90% of AGS games that have sprite-type characters over photographic backgrounds are crap. OW and EEF are the only really good examples I can think of. Cirque, on the other hand, looked just like a classic Lucas game, and that look is very popular around here.

3. More on the build-up: many games generate their best buzz not from their GiP thread, which can tend to be drowned out by dross, but rather by the Critics Lounge (2nd most popular board on AGS, remember) on background, animations, etc.

4. You released at the end of the year, while 7DAS, A2, CdZ were all earlier, so had time to build up a fan base. While year-end-releases benfit Oscar candidates, it does tend to hinder AGS games. Also, the game-of-the-month feature had ToaK and CdZ. And BJ3, A2, ToaK and 7DAS had "big name" AGSers behind them.

5. You had a good review on JA+ which some people will see as a big minus, 'cause they hate JA+

EDIT:

6. Kinoko is female which will automatic double all interest on the forums in anyone's game. See also Ola's PoE and Dart's involvement in ToaK. Or maybe its just that females are on avearge twice as good at making games? 

EDIT 2: re-reading that edit makes it look really sexist, actually. I don't want to imply that CdZ only got interest becuase of the gender of the author. It's a really great game!

[Andail]

sorry, I locked the thread because it turned into some three-four people bringing quotes from other forums defaming you, and you were nowhere to be seen.

Personally, I think you need to move on now, Alkis, you're after all an adult, and most people who insulted you were probably kids.

[auhsor]

I agree with what Geoffkan SSH (oops...)  said. I havn't heard of your game, for all of those reasons. I'm sure your game is great and I would play it if I had time, but yeah I personally don't think it's right to complain that you didn't get nominated. I think the reasons you didn't are because of what Geoffkan said. Generally people who are pretty involved with other aspects of the community here will be more likely to be able to "sell" their game here to regulars.

[alkis21]

This is going much better than the previous thread, finally we have a civilized discussion on the matter. SSH's post in particular was very useful. Dear 'Problem', I am not "insulted by any kind of criticism", in fact in the previous thread there wasn't any criticism on my game, just on my personality. I have accepted all kinds of criticism from various people, and some negative opinions have resulted to very fruiftul conversations. I like to reply to criticism with arguments; when people say "The game's graphics are crap", I reply "True, sorry, that was the best I could do, I was not aiming for graphics anyway". When they say "the puzzles are crap", I ask them which puzzles they did not like, and I explain the logic (or absence of logic) behind them. Often people take my replies as "not accepting criticism", I guess they would prefer it if I bowed my head in shame and apologized for wasting their time with such an awful game. I'm going to reverse what you say and ask: Is negative criticism above criticism? Don't I have the right to disagree with it?
Andail, I am a moderator too (in a different forum) and I would have done the same thing had I been in your shoes. As for being an adult... we all become children again when we're playing computer games, I guess the same thing applies to when we create them.

[Vel]

Alkis, I am not criticising your game, for I have not played it. I just don't like that you complain (or 'show your disappointment') for it not being nominated. Hey, Im sure it'll get a heap of JA+ awards!
Anyway, it's really not about the awards themselves, its about the people enjoying your game. As long as there are such, you shouldn't worry about scores, awards and so on.

[Dave Gilbert]

Kinoko is female which will automatic double all interest on the forums in anyone's game.  See also Ola's PoE and Dart's involvement in ToaK.

Hm.  So by pimping ToaK I am also pimping Dart?  Now I feel kind of sleazy...

[AGA]

Kinoko is female which will automatic double all interest on the forums in anyone's game.  See also Ola's PoE and Dart's involvement in ToaK.

Hm.  So by pimping ToaK I am also pimping Dart?  Now I feel kind of sleazy...

Well she is over 18, and it is legal in parts of (all?) Canada...

[Helm]

Yes, alkis, if you want my opinion, when somebody criticizes your work, you should not fight back, at any case. Take the critique silently, ponder on it, consider which bits are factual, and disregard what you think doesn't stand. There's nothing to be gained by arguing if indeed that puzzle or this graphic are not in fact bad, because that impression has already been made to the person that brings it up, and discussing it until the end of time is not going to change that. I'm attending art school and the first thing I learnt there was to take critique without arguing the points people make, always say thank you for it, and also, sleep on it. If you argue every bit of critique you don't agree with, you risk coming off are very reactionary and defensive.

[Potch]

If I may ask. (kind of off topic... sorry)  Why do AGSers dislike JA+?  I just don't know much about the other gaming sites.  I stick mostly with this one... so just wondering.

[Snarky]

Have you had a look at the JA+ site?

[Potch]

Briefly, a couple of times.  I didn't spend much time there.  What am I missing? 

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

<leans in to pay closer attention to the conversation, because also doesn't know why does JA have such a bad fame in these forums, being one who (despite having been disappointed by the ToaK one) likes to read their reviews>

[Pumaman]

I would just like to point out that if a thread is locked, it is not good form to start another one to continue it -- it has been locked for a reason.

If you want the chance to reply to a locked thread, PM the moderator who locked it and ask them nicely to unlock it for you.

[Dave Gilbert]

Until recently, I never really “got” the animosity toward JA+.Ã,  So what if they like Myst and don't like Monkey Island?Ã,  Apples and oranges.Ã,  They are two different styles of games, and if they prefer one over the other so what?Ã,  It's their opinion.Ã, 

I started reading JA+ pretty regularly back in 1999 or so.Ã,  I was always very impressed with the quality of their writing and their love of the adventure genre as a whole.Ã,  The fact that they reviewed other game genres never bothered me, as they usually discussed games that would appeal to adventure gamers (I doubt I would have even heard of ICO without JA+).

However, I think that since they've been uncontested for so long they're beginning to get lazy.Ã,  It's like they don't care anymore.Ã,  You used to be able to count on JA+ for a review, a preview, or some adventure-related news every single day.Ã,  Now, it seems that the site is more interested in stockpiling walkthroughs, affiliates, and exclusive screenshots then delivering quality information that adventurers actually care about..Ã,  Their writing quality has suffered.Ã,  Some of their recent reviews have been quite vapid, to say the least.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased, since their review of “Two of a Kind” was so devoid of content that they might as well had a picture of a goat instead of a review, but it's a good example of what the site has become.Ã,  It's the fate of many.Ã,  They've forgotten what made them so enjoyable to begin with and are now threatening to collapse under their ever-expanding weight. I hope it doesn't happen, since they have the ability and chutzpa to reach out to a mainstream audience.Ã,  They could have helped drive the genre forward, but instead they chose to sell out.Ã,  It's sad.Ã,