AGS Awards continued...

[Potch]

OH... well that makes sense.  Thanks Dave.  I've been coming to this site for a really long time, just to play the games... since I never really posted much, I still consider myself to be a noobie... there's still a lot I don't know.

[MrColossal]

and besides, out of hundereds of users there are only like 5 who are openly against JA+, it is in no way an AGSer thing.

[Kinoko]

I actually hate it when people just tell me out of the blue things like, "You should have made the graphics better". If I were in the critic's lounge, fair enough, but it seems like people don't realise that when I do graphics, I didn't perposely make them crappy... that's the best I can do! @_@ Or at least, the best I could do at the time. I probably could have improved one thing here and one thing there, but overall, that's my limit.

[alkis21]

To Helm: I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Until recently, I never really “got” the animosity toward JA+.  So what if they like Myst and don't like Monkey Island?  Apples and oranges.  They are two different styles of games, and if they prefer one over the other so what?  It's their opinion.

We should keep in mind that while JA+ consists of quite a lot of people, every review is written by just one person. So the phrase "they like Myst and don't like Monkey Island", as indicated by the respective reviews, does not necessarily apply to the majority. The MI reviews (as well as the Indiana Jones ones) are awful because they were written by a very young person in the early days of the site. But what should the owners of the site do if they disagree with a review? Censor it? That wouldn't be right. Anway, there is a number of reviewers in JA, you just have to spot the ones that more or less share your interests and read their reviews carefully. I highly recommend Aya and Agustin Cordes, for instance. The ones I don't agree with.. well, their reviews are helpful as well, because I know that when they hate a game, I will probably like it.
And let's also not forget that in addition to the reviews, JA also has a forum, and most of the regulars there are very friendly.

[Totoro]

but it seems like people don't realise that when I do graphics, I didn't perposely make them crappy

Kinoko, I HATE YOU 
Your graphics look really really nice, when reading your statement a lot of people with less graphic abilities, like me, will get really depressed.
Mmh, well okay I don't hate you, because your game is far too nice to hate you 

[Problem]

Well, I just think some of their reviews are not fair. You can't just say: "It's a quality game, but I don't like the genre" and give it a C.
You wouldn't let an FPS fan review "Lemmings", so why let a Myst fan review monkey island?
I think their ratings are very random, let's see:

Other Worlds: A
Two of a Kind: B  (I agree the review was terrible, the reviewer didn't seem interested in the game at all)
Monkey Island: C

This isn't meant as an insult to these two excellent AGS games, but I think this can't be right. So Monkey Island is much worse than other worlds?

Of course not all revies on JA+ are bad, some are really good to read. But still, something is completely wrong with how they rate games.
But that's just my opinion.

[alkis21]

I totally agree with you. That's what happens when a site has reviewers of totally different ages, backgrounds and likes/dislikes. You can't compare two reviews from two different writers just because they're on the same site. You can only compare reviews from the same reviewer.
The thing is, I should not complain, because I know for a fact that if I go into the trouble to write two A+ reviews on the Monkey Islands, Randy would have no problem uploading them. I just don't enjoy writing reviews that much.

[Vel]

The two reasons why JA+ is not so bad:
1. The Gabriel Knight 3 review by Ray Ivey
2. The Inventory

Well, imo.

[DragonRose]

Actually, Randy would. People who have previously been boggled at reviews have requested to write new versions, but they want to show a single "JA+ score." Which would make sense if they had a stricter review policy in the first place, but their reviews are just so divergent
And Vel: Why do you hate the Inventory?

[Vel]

Those are the reasons for which JA+ is NOT so bad imo...

[BerserkerTails]

I just go to the official Inventory site to read the Inventory now.

www.theinventory.org

[Vel]

Why yes, that's what I do, but it was hosted only on JA back in those days...

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

You wouldn't let an FPS fan review "Lemmings", so why let a Myst fan review monkey island?

But then, Lemmings isn't an FPS, and both MI and Myst are adventure games, like it or not. They're just different styles of the same genre. Shouldn't the same person review Fallout, Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima 1, Nethack, Adom, Blood Omen, and etc? They're all RPG's, basically. And while we're at it, Waxworks, Elvira and Quest for Glory.

[Vince Twelve]

Personally, I don't see why one man (or woman) couldn't write a perfectly good review for any game of any genre regardless of his personal disposition towards that particular genre.

If a game reviewer is responsible, he will review the game based upon its strengths and weaknesses as a game.  Sometimes these strengths and weaknessess are common to the entire genre to which the game belongs, but this doesn't mean they should be ignored (or overvalued) because you're a fan (detractor) of that genre.  The important thing is that these strengths and weaknesses are not reviewed based on the reviewers taste, but based upon their objective merits.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there are a lot of responsible, unbiased reviews floating around JA+...

[Kinoko]

but it seems like people don't realise that when I do graphics, I didn't perposely make them crappy

Kinoko, I HATE YOU 
Your graphics look really really nice, when reading your statement a lot of people with less graphic abilities, like me, will get really depressed.
Mmh, well okay I don't hate you, because your game is far too nice to hate you 

Hehe, thanks You know what I mean though. Everyone has different standards, and my art is in no way perfect, particularly in cirque. There's a lot of art in that game that's very "I threw this together in the back of my shed using spare parts"... even though it was as good as I could really do at the time, you still get the occasional comment of, "You should have done this better". If people are just saying "The graphics are so-so" or even "I hate them" - fine! They're perfectly valid comments. Just telling me to do them better is just like asking a cat to try harder to fly.

I'm reminded of a great Homestar quote - "I said GOOD graphics!"

[DragonRose]

Vel: Apparently, I have selective reading today. Whoopsy!

[Gregjazz]

Yeah, I actually remember seeing the thread about Other Worlds in the "Completed Game Announcements." Let's face it, Other Worlds doesn't have amazing art, so I moved on. First impression is very important in games, and the art has a very big part in that.

Personally I don't take reviews too seriously, because they are based on the opinions of a very small amount of people (and most of the time only one person's opinions). Same with any sort of awards. Awards are cool to get and everything, but come on, the point of making free adventure games isn't about the awards, is it?

[alkis21]

"Other Worlds doesn't have amazing art" is un understatement. It's like saying that Myst is not an amazing adventure game.  I just thought that if some people were eager to overlook the mediocre graphics, they would be satisfied by the overall quality of the story & puzzles. Lucky for me, some were. After all, my favorite AGS game (Pleurghburg: Dark Ages) doesn't have amazing art either.
Back to the reviews discussion.. all reviews are objective by definition. The difference bettween a good and a bad reviewer is that the bad reviewer will fail to explain the main features of a game, he will only go on and on about how amazing or how awful it is, without really helping the reader to understand what it is about. The good reviewer, on the other hand, will be able to describe the game adequately and will basically help the reader decide whether he/she will like the game or not. For instance, I've seen 90-95% (or A- to A+ if you prefer) reviews of Myst clones that were very good, because although I didn't agree with the score, the text helped me understand that I wouldn't like those games.