Krikey, they're all at it. Yesterday I noticed that Al Lowe is turning to Kickstarter to help fund the Leisure Suit Larry remakes (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1451923705/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again), and then today it turns out that Jane Jensen is using it to fund her new game studio (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1005365109/jane-jensens-pinkerton-road-2012-2013-csg), which sounds more like a dodgy adventure game time-share scheme.
lol...Why am I not surprised. It's a shame because these higher profile (or celebrity) developers are going to put a strain on kickstarter for start-ups (imo).
This is getting really old to be honest. :-X
Maybe Kick starter should get a reviewing process? Maybe all this jumping up and down on the band wagon is good.
I'd be more impressed if Al would do a new game rather than a carbon copy of the first Larry with improved graphics.
QuoteI'd be more impressed if Al would do a new game rather than a carbon copy of the first Larry with improved graphics.
I agree, this will be the third version of Larry 1. ???
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 05/04/2012 01:56:42
lol...Why am I not surprised. It's a shame because these higher profile (or celebrity) developers are going to put a strain on kickstarter for start-ups (imo).
I agree, I think nobody of the "after Schaffer" party thought through of how saturated things will become and instead maybe they thought of going with the wave.
Although this pledges are somewhat (at least in some ratio) indications of how well adventure games sell.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 05/04/2012 01:56:42
lol...Why am I not surprised. It's a shame because these higher profile (or celebrity) developers are going to put a strain on kickstarter for start-ups (imo).
No way, it's helping them out. A lot of small games by unknowns on Kickstarter are getting funded by people who only have accounts because Doublefine got them there. I heard that. From the FACT GOD.
Hmmn... This Jane Jenson thing. Best pitch video ever? Best pitch video ever.
Quote from: Radiant on Thu 05/04/2012 09:53:08
I'd be more impressed if Al would do a new game rather than a carbon copy of the first Larry with improved graphics.
From the FAQ:
I love the game but I would pledge more if you guys made a brand new Leisure Suit Larry game instead of a re-make of LSL 1We would LOVE to make a new version of Leisure Suit Larry!! We thought about making LSL 4 (the missing floppies) or 8, or even 69!! The problem is, Codemasters, the publisher that owns the rights to Leisure Suit Larry and sold them to us wants to see what we can do with the game first. They said if we do a good job at a re-make then we'll have total freedom to do what we want on the next game.
Quote from: Corby on Thu 05/04/2012 10:11:40
I agree, this will be the third version of Larry 1. ???
Fourth if you count Softporn.
Why not just make a new game, Al, instead of treading the same tired ground? Make a fresh lounge lizard for today's audiences or go in a completely new direction. Larry has pretty much done everything he can do except genre jump at this point (oh no, I hope I didn't give them an idea to do Leisure Suit Larry: Boobs and Dinosaurs or Larry's Space Boner Adventure).
So Codemasters want Al Lowe to remake LSL1 to prove he/his team can do it before they let him make an original LSL title. And only then will they release the rights, rather than give him a budget to work with to produce a new title straight up - presumably Codemasters are still getting the profits from both possible games? What weird video-game company beauracracy.
"Hi, I'm Al Lowe, I invented LSL. I'd like to make a new one."
"LSL? Let me check with accounts. Yeah do we have an um, LSL there? Huh? Oh, it was a computer game? Yes I've got a man here who claims he wants to make a new one. Thanks. Sorry sir, apparently we'll need to see a demo first before we can discuss this further. Did you say you make videogames?"
He and Jane Jensen should be getting deals straight out IMO. I suppose going it alone and just trying to re-aquire rights is worth helping to fund. It could almost be interesting to see this begin to dismantle the mainstream video-game scene a little, point n click genre has always been good at that - re-writing the books :) No damage, I just mean in terms of studio focus towards these kind of projects, they won't take that risk - which gives the smaller studio the oppurtunity to flourish. P&C has a big garden with several big guard dogs in it, luckily keeping the harsh finger of mainstream gaming at bay for a long time, hopefully further still.
But goddamn. Yes watering it down is right, I swear all news now is just kickstarter projects. I'm guuilty too :P This is a good way to help society. My friend is disabled and needs 20,000 to be able to walk again via an operation in America. I need 2000 to get my business working. You can see why 500k and 3m point & click kickstarter projects piss me off as much as impress me.
Quote from: m0ds on Thu 05/04/2012 12:18:37
But goddamn. Yes watering it down is right, I swear all news now is just kickstarter projects. I'm guuilty too :P This is a good way to help society. My friend is disabled and needs 20,000 to be able to walk again via an operation in America. I need 2000 to get my business working. You can see why 500k and 3m point & click kickstarter projects piss me off as much as impress me.
I wonder if there is a kind of Kickstarter clone specialising in helping people fund personal charitable causes, such as operations in America... if not, there bloody well should be.
Has Al Lowe actually bought the rights, or has he just purchased permission to remake an existing game?
If he's got the rights, then surely Codemasters can go f*ck themselves, and Al can make a new game?
The charity argument has come up before and... eh. I'm giving around $100 across three charities a month, which I think isn't too bad considering I'm only guaranteed $208 a week with my part time work right now. So my conscious is clear as to whether I'm allowed to spend the rest of my money frivolously.
I think it comes up with Kickstarter because the line is blurred between charity and consuming. Everyone giving money is basically paying for a product (assuming that conditions are honoured) and I see it more as cutting out the middlemen producers than a charity for game developers. The money is provided by the customers BEFORE the game is released, the game is developed with that money. Everyone gets what they want! Unless the developers want a profit. Perhaps. Nobody's gotten that far yet. :P
I'll be collecting a few more pay slips and weighing up what I need to spend on annoying real life crap before deciding on what I'll help Kickstart - I'm pretty sure I'll be funding LSL, though, and my interest is very taken with Shadowrun Returns (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns)
Also, I'd have to assume Al Lowe does not have the rights and I'd guess he doesn't have the means to purchase them. Josh Mandel and the SQ7 pursued the idea of purchasing Space Quest as a property when Vivendi were selling off the Sierra IPs, and the quote at the time was "Unless somebody has an eccentric millionaire relative, it ain't gonna happen".
I don't know if that's just a matter of Vivendi playing hard ball, though, because apparently the Shadowrun guy obtained the rights back to the series which I thought would have been tougher what with it being used by Microsoft recently..
Larry I will most likely back, to what extend I have no idea since I don't own an iphone. Now if it was certain it would land on PC I'd back them just as much as I backed Double Fine, both for them to make another game and to compensate for all these times I pirated their games. I'm not starving for another of Jane Jensen's game, seeing as I could just give Gabriel Knight a third try if I wanted more of her, so I won't bother with her kickstarter.
QuoteSo Codemasters want Al Lowe to remake LSL1 to prove he/his team can do it before they let him make an original LSL title.
It's not Al and his team. It's Replay Games and Al. It's Replay Games that asked Codemasters if they could revive Leisure Suit Larry ages ago, Codemasters agreed for a remake, and later on Replay Games asked Al and (even later) Josh if they were interested in working with them.
It would have been better if they got Al involved right off the bat but I suppose Al was not interested in interrupting his retirement to experience yet more refusals from publishers and investors. It's a bit like Catch-22. You need Al to get a sequel and you need approval to get Al.
See it from the bright side, it won't just be an HD treatment, we'll get more jokes, puzzles, locations and girls, and if it's successful, they won't have to remake another game ever again.
QuoteI don't know if that's just a matter of Vivendi playing hard ball
Vivendi's dead. It's Activision that owns it all now, except Larry. And the Shadowrun guys are in a much different situation, they're dealing with a pen and paper RPG company, not Activision, and they offer an up to date, multi-platform RPG, not an old school PC adventure game, like most people proposed when they tried to deal with Activision.
I'm pretty sure they are having the PC in mind, with "XBLA, PSN, Android, iPads, iPhones, Windows Phones, Kindle, Linux and of course, Mac!" as an extra.
Quote from: Jared on Thu 05/04/2012 13:26:39
I don't know if that's just a matter of Vivendi playing hard ball, though, because apparently the Shadowrun guy obtained the rights back to the series which I thought would have been tougher what with it being used by Microsoft recently..
I think Microsoft just stopped paying for the rights, It's not like they did much with them. The MW and MC series ended up with the online communities IIRC.
Regardless of how everything turns out with all the celebrity developers barging out the smaller independents, all this kickstarter nonsense might drag the mainstream industry back to genres that it's long neglected (adventure games being one of many.)
Quote from: Eggie on Thu 05/04/2012 11:32:49
Hmmn... This Jane Jenson thing. Best pitch video ever? Best pitch video ever.
Sounds like someone has a little crush on Jane's daughter!
Quote from: Kweepa on Thu 05/04/2012 23:13:57
Quote from: Eggie on Thu 05/04/2012 11:32:49
Hmmn... This Jane Jenson thing. Best pitch video ever? Best pitch video ever.
Sounds like someone has a little crush on Jane's daughter!
She's pretty hot. And not a shabby actor either.
Quote from: Stupot+ on Thu 05/04/2012 23:58:02
She's pretty hot. And not a shabby actor either.
And pretty good pipes on her as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzNe41iLijQ
I only have a crush on Jane herself, and her husband when he wears that pigtail wig.
Quote from: blueskirt on Thu 05/04/2012 20:38:31
It's not Al and his team. It's Replay Games and Al. It's Replay Games that asked Codemasters if they could revive Leisure Suit Larry ages ago, Codemasters agreed for a remake, and later on Replay Games asked Al and (even later) Josh if they were interested in working with them.
It would have been better if they got Al involved right off the bat but I suppose Al was not interested in interrupting his retirement to experience yet more refusals from publishers and investors. It's a bit like Catch-22. You need Al to get a sequel and you need approval to get Al.
See it from the bright side, it won't just be an HD treatment, we'll get more jokes, puzzles, locations and girls, and if it's successful, they won't have to remake another game ever again.
Thanks for explaining blueskirt. Copyrights, rights & acquisition stages...always interesting! I'll have to read into it more before casting judgements... but this is definitely why indie gaming has a lot of strengths (and always will), lots of beuracracy higher up. Creative aspects also suffer because of those higher up problems. Hopefully it won't for these folks, but is that be a reason behind Jensen's kickstarter studio? More creative control over games?
Quote from: blueskirt on Thu 05/04/2012 20:38:31Vivendi's dead. It's Activision that owns it all now, except Larry.
Sorry, I probably screwed up with the tense I used in that sentence - I know Vivendi's not around now but at the time Josh Mandel and SQ7 were dealing with Vivendi. Around the time of the acquisition they were selling off the Sierra IPs - I don't know if they actually offloaded any other than Larry (since I think Telltale bought King's Quest more recently..)
QuoteAnd the Shadowrun guys are in a much different situation, they're dealing with a pen and paper RPG company, not Activision, and they offer an up to date, multi-platform RPG, not an old school PC adventure game, like most people proposed when they tried to deal with Activision.
So I guess Microsoft did give up the rights then? It's great news for gamers, anyway. I always like to see a creator get the rights to his own property back, and I get the feeling something awesome is going to come out of it.
I think it's a measure of how big I nerd I am that I'm instantly twice as interested in a project when the developers promise a level editor...
UPDATE: Wow, Shadowrun Returns is already funded. 28 hours.
Also I see what people were saying about Jane Jensen's daughter. If Jane's smart she'll ad a 20,000 reward for a date with Raleigh :P
I think Jane Jensen's pitch video is my favorite so far.
Quote from: Jared on Fri 06/04/2012 02:24:55
Quote from: blueskirt on Thu 05/04/2012 20:38:31Vivendi's dead. It's Activision that owns it all now, except Larry.
Sorry, I probably screwed up with the tense I used in that sentence - I know Vivendi's not around now but at the time Josh Mandel and SQ7 were dealing with Vivendi. Around the time of the acquisition they were selling off the Sierra IPs - I don't know if they actually offloaded any other than Larry (since I think Telltale bought King's Quest more recently..)
I think Telltale bought a license, not the IP, like they did for Tales Of Monkey Island. As for the other IPs, other than Leisure Suit Larry, the only other Sierra IP that isn't owned by Activision is Gold Rush.
It's funny but now that I think about it, I have the strange feeling that before long we'll see some fan teams using Kickstarter to acquire license and fund remakes and fangames.
Also, hurray for Shadowrun Returns, now that was a game I was waiting for a long time.
Big difference between owning and licensing something. Naughty of Replay Games to insinuate that they owned the rights to Larry when they'd only licensed them.
As for Kickstarter, well... it seems to be appealing (and very successful) for veteran game designers who are overlooked by modern publishers, doesn't it. True, that could end up damaging its original purpose, but there you have it. Hopefully though it'll still be a good avenue for new game makers to use as well, although they're likely to need to have more to show upfront first.
And Blueskirt? Vivendi Games isn't dead. It's Activision Blizzard, yes, but it's still a subsidiary of Vivendi SA.
New update from Al Lowe here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF_yvZ5l0oI&feature=youtu.be). He addresses a brief FAQ I gather from feedback so far, clarifies that Replay Games has the license, clarifies that the ultimate goal is to get the ball rolling for a whole new game, and re-iterates that he had absolutely nothing to do with the last two 'Larry' Games. Oh, and he gives Jane Jensen a shout out.
The biggest problem for Al, and one I hadn't thought of until right now, is probably Magnum Cum Laude and Box Office Bust. The gap between those and Love For Sail (way back in 1996!) is so big and they were such high-profile failures and gaming media punching bags, that a lot of younger people would think of those games when they hear 'Leisure Suit Larry'.
And it must be terrible to keep getting associated with games you didn't even get consulted on..
Cool cheers Jared! Good to see point & click's can still be big business. Cheaper to make an original title though surely! It seems the 90's designers are all bouncing back. Each with a second mortgage to pay off it seems ;D
You seen the size of Jensen's crib? The barn alone could probably fit my house inside it severalfold.
BTW, has anyone ever read any of her novels? I knew she'd done novels of Gabriel Knight, but didn't realise she had a few other books too. Might check them out.
Update on Larry: new rewards (T-shirts included) and the official forums: http://forums.replaygamesinc.com/
Ooh, another update and this one is kind of a big deal. An interview with Rock Paper Shotgun (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/10/happy-as-larry-al-lowe-on-remaking-his-classic-game/#more-103200) with Al Lowe and Paul Trowe who's heading the project and a former Sierra employee...
(All emphasis has been added)
QuoteRPS: You worked on a bunch of other Sierra games, I know you worked on the Police Quest games, did lots of programming and dialogue for those. Do you have any ambition to bring… In your Kickstarter you’ve talked about wanting to bring back all those classic series, but is there any in particular that you have a real passion for, that you’d really like to give another chance to?
Al: In my book, the number one would be Space Quest because I just love Scott Murphy and Mark Crowe, I thought that humour was just… I thought it was better than mine, y’know (laughs). I really liked it a lot, I thought it was just that wonderful sardonic and creative and wry humour, I just loved it. I just love stuff like ‘Thanks for playing, you’ve been a real pantload’. That was one of my favourite lines in all games.
RPS: [...] Do you think that would be a game you could bring back and get them on board with?
Paul: I already spoke to Scott. Scott’s down for Space Quest. Mark works for Pipeworks, which is a Foundation 9 company. Foundation 9 is a very large independent studio and Mark said that that would be a direct conflict of interest for him, but if you recall in the last Space Quest, which was Space Quest 6, it was all Scott and Josh.
Al: Josh Mandel. And Josh is in on board here.
Paul: Josh was already on board, so in my opinion Space Quest 6 was one of the funniest ones out of all of them, so I think to make either Space Quest 7 or to reboot Space Quest 1-6, it’s more of a legal right than anything else. I’ve been friends with Scott ever since they closed Sierra, and once we announced that we were doing Leisure Suit Larry, I called Scott immediately and I said ‘If we get the rights to Space Quest, will you hop on board and do this with us?’ and he said ‘Absolutely, yes.’
Al: That’s good news.
RPS: [...] So Paul, something like the licence for Space Quest, which I believe is currently in the hands of Activision, who obviously don’t have any intention of doing anything with it, how difficult is that process to start?
Paul: What you’re saying is actually not true. It’s been licensed out already, and we’re in negotiations with the company that has it licensed out. And I want to say it’s looking good, but right now I’d give us 50/50.
Replay Games are pretty serious about bringing back Sierra games. He goes on to mention talking to Ken and Roberta about King's Quest which... well, I'd imagine would provoke mixed responses here. Most surprisingly, for me, Paul Trowe's response when King's Quest: The Silver Lining comes up..
QuoteRPS: So also with King’s Quest, they’ve been uncharacteristically generous in allowing fan projects. Have you seen the project the Silver Lining?
Paul: The Silver Lining wasn’t available for sale…
RPS: That’s right, yes.
Paul:And in addition it wasn’t really a King’s Quest. In my opinion they did an injustice to the King’s Quest franchise.
RPS: That’s interesting, why do you think that?
Paul: I just don’t think it held true to Roberta’s vision, just like I don’t think the Leisure Suit Larrys that have come out after Al wasn’t involved held true to Al’s vision. And that’s why I refuse to work on a Leisure Suit Larry game if Al wasn’t involved. I refuse to work on a King’s Quest game if Roberta’s not involved.
Which I thought was a surprisingly purist mindset, given that Ken Williams was happy to move series from designer to designer when it suited him. But, hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think somebody needs to ask Paul Trowe about Vohaul Strikes Back and Incinerations now! :P
EDIT: How come people always talk about doing more King's Quest but never more Quest For Glory when it's such a better series???
That does lend credence that all the Sierra properties Activision still own were licensed out to Telltale. Whether or not they planned on doing anything with Space Quest themselves, who knows?
QuoteThe biggest problem for Al, and one I hadn't thought of until right now, is probably Magnum Cum Laude and Box Office Bust.
I don't know. I think the biggest problem is how crazy fractioned the Sierra communities are compared to LucasArts communities. LucasArts, if you like one game, you will most likely like them all as the gameplay, mood and humor are relatively similar from one game to the next. Sierra, if you like one series you will not automatically like the others. There also hasn't been any Sierra version of Mixnmojo and Lucasforums to cultivate this sense of unity among Sierra fans, gather them and keep them talking about Sierra stuff.
While Double Fine had the support from the fans of LucasArts, Ron, Tim, Monkey Island, Sam and Max, Maniac Mansion, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango and Psychonauts and other Double Fine titles, Al and Jane will mostly rely on their respective fanbase. I have no doubt both projects, and Tex Murphy will meet their goals, but I doubt we'll witness the same overfunding craze of the Double Fine kickstarter. It's also clear that you could not pull off the same stunt for a lesser known title like Freddy Pharkas, Manhunter, Conquest or Laura Bow, with the current situation Sierra communities are in, at least not without revising your goal.
Hm, if they don't like The Silver Lining I wonder what they think of all the fan-made Space Quest sequels out there?
I don't think there's ever been a Larry fangame that wasn't a straight remake, was there?
Update #10: some awesome new goodies! :D
They added a new $150 tier for that much you get
1) physical game and game box
2) CD of the soundtrack
3) Lefty's breath spray,
4) Lefty's sexy lady "reveal" pen.
5) Lefty's shot glass
6) 4 Lefty's coasters,
7) softcover version of the Art of Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded
8) Leisure Suit Larry Brand Condom
9) Lefty’s Bar t-shirt
and they revealed what the t-shirt will look like... I think its a lot cooler then the Doublefine shirt...
http://i.imgur.com/cYvXg.png (http://i.imgur.com/cYvXg.png)
Well, barring some unforeseen incidents in the future Larry is coming back! Fully funded 6 days out from the finish line.
Now they're talking about things to do if they get to a million.... I doubt that's happening. But still! Sierra is making a comeback.
(Although Scott Murphy and Mark Crowe, for mine, having taken a bit of the thunder away..)
AL LOWE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have all the best wishes for him and jane and hope someday I can be like them. :=
Haha, no way they're getting a million, but they've got more than enough to [re]make Larry.
Jensen's campaign seems to be petering out a bit, but they should be able to hit the target in 22 days. I don't really like this system she's planning. I'd rather just buy each game as and when they come out.
I'm hoping Jane's one is going to pick up now they've pinned down an actual GAME to say they're making. This business of pitching it as a company start-up is messy and overly complicated and it's hurt them a lot.
I really want to play the new game though :'( Please pledge, folks...
They've successfully reached the 500000 level some days ago. And a new update:
"So, here's the easier one: at the $550,000 level, we will be maxing out the game responses along the lines I suggested in my video update. Tons more jokes, tons more responses for clicking on screen features, dialogue trees, inventory-on-inventory messages, and more story! We’ll load every existing nook and cranny with extra content because, as Al pointed out to us, the original was “kinda thin†on that.
Now, here's the big one: at the $650,000 level, we're doing something that will change the face of Larry forever (if only!): we're adding a new location, new puzzles, and a new girl with her own storyline! Is this the infamous female character that Al was forced to cut from the original 1987 version of Leisure Suit Larry 1? Or am I just making that up entirely to add a sense of mystery? Your guess is as good as mine!"
Now how's that? :=
We made it! We've reached $650,000 with less than one hour to go. That means a new location, with new characters and puzzles, more plot and jokes and a new girl to woo!
Woo! :=
Seem's Jensen has hit her target now, too. Which is good. I don't feel so guilty about not backing now.
What's this? Now they're suing someone? What the douche is going on with these kickstarters/companies/people ?!
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/172/
or
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/30/leisure-suit-larry-creator-wants-infringing-kickstarter-campaign-taken-down-exclusive/
So in other words they will end up using the money they raised with the kickstarter to fund this lawsuit..
Good point Peder. This is why I'll strictly only back personal projects.
EDIT: NO BABAR THAT IS NOT A SUBTLE HINT MUCH AT ALL LOTS
Quote from: m0ds on Wed 30/05/2012 17:34:04
What's this? Now they're suing someone? What the douche is going on with these kickstarters/companies/people ?!
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/172/
or
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/30/leisure-suit-larry-creator-wants-infringing-kickstarter-campaign-taken-down-exclusive/
Haha, well you might be suing Lowe, yourself soon, Mods.
Kinky Island rip-off?
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=46132.0
Help me raise 500,000 dollars and yes Stu, I will sue them ;) For being scary old men with too much obsession of sex.
Quote from: Stupot+ on Wed 30/05/2012 23:45:22
Haha, well you might be suing Lowe, yourself soon, Mods.
Kinky Island rip-off?
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=46132.0
But this is exactly what "Al" is suing Stupot, so obviously m0ds would be suing Ken Wegrzyn.
Ohh, I seee.
I started the other thread before I saw about this, and then clearly didnt look properly at the links.
Stu has run out of medication. Help me raise 500,000 bazillion million and I will get him one valium pill with it.
It's not about the money money money, Al don't need your money, money money - he just wants to make the world play, an LSL reee-make.