Any ethical limits?

[Ozzie]

Hell, Agatha Cristie's world-famous classic novel, "Ten Little Indians" was originally called "Ten Little Niggers"

To be honest, I'm not tolerant towards intolerance.

That's a paradox. If you're not tolerant towards intolerance, that makes you intolerant, which means if I was to follow your sentiment I shouldn't be tolerating your intolerance towards intolerance. And you shouldn't be tolerating my intolerance for your intolerance for intolerance. If that makes sense. So, basically, everyone should kill each other.


We all have our little intolerances. It's natural. My uncle's lactose intolerant... I'm not all up-in-arms about that...

Yeah, I'm sure the world would be a much better place if we would be all tolerant towards racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, misogyny...
Sure.

[Radiant]

actually, I can't remember a single game in which someone was married...

King Graham is married. So are Guybrush Threepwood and, Sonny Bonds. Even Larry Laffer is married at least twice, albeit not for very long, and Roger Wilco will apparently marry Beatrice in SQXII.

[Emerald]

Yeah, I'm sure the world would be a much better place if we would be all tolerant towards racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, misogyny...
Sure.

I'm sure it would. Do you really think you're solving anything by censoring/attacking people who think that way?

I know a guy who's the nicest, gentlest person you'll ever meet. He's thoughtful, optimistic and a pleasure to be around, but he is deathly homophobic. Like, he can't stand to be in the same room as someone who's acting gay. Once, he went in for a haircut, and upon discovering the barber was gay, ran out without looking back.
It's a completely irrational fear, but he can't help it. Should he be punished for that?

This whole 'politically correct' thing is an exercise in hypocrisy.

[Stupot]

Hence the term 'homophobia'.
You should lock your friend in a room full of gay chaps for 24 hours so that he can overcome his fear... a similar thing was done with tarantulas for a girl who had been arachnophobic... but she was cured, and now they call her the 'Black Widow'... which upset more people so she was forced to use the term 'Ethnic Unmarried Lady', but anti-sexism groups lobbied to have her change 'Lady' to 'Person'.

she killed herself yesterday... which upset even more people.

[MrColossal]

actually, I can't remember a single game in which someone was married...

King Graham is married. So are Guybrush Threepwood and Sonny Bonds.

the deletion of a comma begins a descent into horribly awesome slash fiction...

[Emerald]

Which upset more people so she was forced to use the term 'Ethnic Unmarried Lady', but anti-sexism groups lobbied to have her change 'Lady' to 'Person'.

That's another thing that pisses me off. All this 'Happy Holidays', and 'African American' crap.
It's 'Christmas' and 'Black'.

I have a friend (yes, another one) who's from Africa. We call him 'AJ' because even he can't pronounce his own name (Azerhaji-something...). It's hilarious, because he's got a strong Dublin accent - he's never even been to America (in fact, he's only ever been to Africa like once or twice), and people call him 'African American'.

And the whole 'Happy Holidays' and 'Holiday Tree' and all that other bullshit is a total double-standard. You go to Israel, you expect synagogues and menorahs. You don't say "Ehh, how about we call it a 'Holiday Candlestick'?"

[Radiant]

That's another thing that pisses me off. All this 'Happy Holidays', and 'African American' crap.
It's 'Christmas' and 'Black'.

And don't even get me started on "S.O."

[Andail]

Yeah, I'm sure the world would be a much better place if we would be all tolerant towards racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, misogyny...
Sure.

I'm sure it would. Do you really think you're solving anything by censoring/attacking people who think that way?

I know a guy who's the nicest, gentlest person you'll ever meet. He's thoughtful, optimistic and a pleasure to be around, but he is deathly homophobic. Like, he can't stand to be in the same room as someone who's acting gay. Once, he went in for a haircut, and upon discovering the barber was gay, ran out without looking back.
It's a completely irrational fear, but he can't help it. Should he be punished for that?

This whole 'politically correct' thing is an exercise in hypocrisy.

Yeah and I know this person, he's the best, kindest, most lovable creature God ever conceived, and he can't be in the same room as women, coloured people, gypsies, homosexuals, dwarves or Irishmen. He actually starts throwing stones at them. But he can't help it, and can we blame him? I mean, we have to be tolerant towards his abnormality.

[Radiant]

I know a guy who's the nicest, gentlest person you'll ever meet.

...

Once, he went in for a haircut, and upon discovering the barber was gay, ran out without looking back.

Actually, if this is the nicest person whom you'll ever met, I wonder what kind of person you normally meet. This would rank among the nastiest people I know, and I know quite a lot of people.

[twin-moon]

King Graham is married. So are Guybrush Threepwood and Sonny Bonds. Even Larry Laffer is married at least twice, albeit not for very long, and Roger Wilco will apparently marry Beatrice in SQXII.

Police Quest 2, that's indeed an example of good writing. But what I meant was that most games feel empty, i.e. without a character background. Then again, people play adventure games for the puzzles, so it's not always that important.

On topic: my father is a rascist and he makes 'African American' sound like an offensive term. (I translated since we're not americans, but you get the point.) That's my two cents on the whole P.C. thing.

@Radiant: S.O.? Sexual organs?

[Candall]

That raises an interesting question.  Maybe he truly is homophobic in the clinical sense.  Maybe his reaction, psychologically, is the same as an arachnophobe discovering that the barber is actually a giant spider.

Okay, that was silly.  But do you get my point?  Maybe he wasn't issuing a judgement on the barber at a personal level, just acting out of a crippling fear.  True terror vs. utter dislike.

Some people are afraid of milk.  Some people juggle geese.

[twin-moon]

That raises an interesting question.  Maybe he truly is homophobic in the clinical sense.  Maybe his reaction, psychologically, is the same as an arachnophobe discovering that the barber is actually a giant spider.

You can be conditioned to be homophobic, just like you can be conditioned to be afraid of spiders.
Still, you're responsible for what you do with it.

[Emerald]

Actually, if this is the nicest person whom you'll ever met, I wonder what kind of person you normally meet. This would rank among the nastiest people I know, and I know quite a lot of people.

Nasty? Since when does avoiding a certain type of person make you Hitler-cum-Stalin?

He obviously didn't wait all the way through his haircut, and then run out on the bill...

[Radiant]

Nasty? Since when does avoiding a certain type of person make you Hitler-cum-Stalin?

I said "nastiest people I know". I'm happy to inform you that I don't know any Hitler-cum-Stalin people.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

It's interesting to point out that a lot of people are unfairly classed as homophobes because they disagree with that behavior and lifestyle for moral/religious reasons.  I'm rather against forcing people under threat of labels to adhere to current trends towards what is and is not acceptable. 

It's just as easy to discriminate against those who are against something as it is to discriminate against those who are for it.

[PixelPerfect]

Yeah and I know this person, he's the best, kindest, most lovable creature God ever conceived, and he can't be in the same room as women, coloured people, gypsies, homosexuals, dwarves or Irishmen. He actually starts throwing stones at them. But he can't help it, and can we blame him? I mean, we have to be tolerant towards his abnormality.

I said "nastiest people I know". I'm happy to inform you that I don't know any Hitler-cum-Stalin people.

I think walking away and throwing stones are two different things. And if you can say that a person is "nasty" for not being able to cope with certain types of people then I think you're pretty judgemental yourself. We don't all have to sing cumbayaa hand in hand to get along. Let people be people and chill with the P.C. stuff.

[Radiant]

I think walking away and throwing stones are two different things. And if you can say that a person is "nasty" for not being able to cope with certain types of people then I think you're pretty judgemental yourself. We don't all have to sing cumbayaa hand in hand to get along. Let people be people and chill with the P.C. stuff.

Just like Emerald, you're putting words in my mouth and not listening to what I'm actually saying. In a wonderful stroke of irony, that makes you judgmental, since because of cognitive laziness you're pigeonholing people based on a hasty first impression, rather than actually trying to comprehend them. In other words, if you think I'm PC by any stretch of the word, you really don't know who I am.

[Andail]

Oh come on, running out from a barber shop just because you notice the barber might be homosexual is a very provocative act.   
It's a loooong way from holding hands and singing cumbayaa to making public displays of resentment.

Let me draw up a chart for you:
1. Not coping with a certain type of people, like rather not be friends with them = ok, but it doesn't make sense.
2. Making public statements, like choosing to sit as far away as a black person on a bus or leaving a room because there's a gay person in it = narrow-minded and stupid.

I dunno, I'm just allergic to the claim "you're intolerant because you don't tolerate intolerant people!!" It's just silly. This has nothing to do with political correctness, it's about understanding that everyone deserves to be treated like a freaking human being, regardless of colour or sexual preferences. If you didn't learn this in school, it's your loss. Try to change. 

[Emerald]

This has nothing to do with political correctness, it's about understanding that everyone deserves to be treated like a freaking human being, regardless of colour or sexual preferences. If you didn't learn this in school, it's your loss. Try to change. 

But they can't help it. It's not a choice. Just like gays can't help being attracted to men, homophobes can't help being afraid of homosexuals. It's usually deeply ingrained in their psyches by poor relations with their fathers - just like any other irrational fear.

If someone had a fear of Irish people, I'd be fine with them sitting on the other side of the bus - I certainly wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable.

It's just as easy to discriminate against those who are against something as it is to discriminate against those who are for it.

That's exactly my point. The only difference is what's "socially acceptable" and what isn't.

A hundred years ago, being a 'nigger-lover' was politically incorrect, and I bet it would be people like you guys taking to the streets during Nelson Mandela's speeches, because that's what was 'taught in school', as you say...

[OneDollar]

Oh come on, running out from a barber shop just because you notice the barber might be homosexual is a very provocative act.

Okay, say someone has pogonophobia (the fear of beards). Whenever they see someone with a beard they turn around  and walk the other way. If they enter a shop and someone with a beard also enters they leave. Are they being provocative towards bearded people? What about someone with vertigo. They refuse to take a look at the view from your 23rd floor apartment. Are they doing it because they don't like you, because they hate the view? People in these positions are fully aware that any problems are their own, they avoid people or situations because they themselves have a problem, not because there is something wrong with the people or situation. You're only saying that because its about homosexuals, and they're part of a big messy patchwork of political correctness.

Then again, I've never understood the use of 'homophobia' as an equivalent to, say, racism and sexism.