Hi, i'm selling these fine leather jackets.
And, at the same time - I was wondering if anyone has got any more commercial game plans by using AGS?
I mean, could The Adventures of Fatman be hailed a success? So far as the reviews went, it seemed so. But I don't know whether Mike made his budget back.
Has it prompted anyone to consider making a commercial quality game? I know of one person (who I wont name for fear that I think they told me to keep their project secret :P) who is considering creating a commercial AGS adventure game, but he can't get the right team just yet.
I'm just interested to know if anyone else has plans.
:)
m0ds
Okay, m0ds, you can buy my next game off of me if you really want... ;)
But no, I don't think there are any more yet. I think eVOLVE once considered making 'The Case' commercial (correct me if I'm wrong) but hopefully he decided against it.
Well, one reason I asked is because I think they're great fun to work on and I'd love to work on more in some way or another :)
m0ds
Wouldn't it be a good idea to form some sort of publishing company?
I mean, if Socko sells another hundred copies, and if GASPOP eventually gets a title to the shelves, or if ILB releases a commercial game, they'd all have to establish their own, new PR, and start from scratch when it comes to advertising and getting recognition.
Either the publishing company could just be a name, like
AGS Productions (or something more imaginary) which people would lable their products, or it could actually be a company with guys taking care of the CD manufacturing and distribution etc.
Of course, the creators' names - GASPOP or ILB or Socko
would still be there as the developing company.
So, like most commercial games, there'd be one developing company and one publishing company, where the latter would be the same for all ags-games, and quickly gain a really big reputation and a famous name.
Perhaps it's too ambitious? Too complicated?
Well, at the moment I think it would be just too unnecessary. It would be awesome if we had enough commercial AGS games going through to justify a publisher, but I can't see there being enough volume at the moment.
Well, that game Undeniable is planned to be a commercial game. The only thing is that I work only with 1 other guy, and the demo wich is about 5% of the full game will be released 8october. So If the game is proceeding as we are planning to, it should be done somewhere May 2004.
The game I'm planning at the moment might end up commercial if it ends up as I like to... Will take time though. Will probably start with a really crude version with my own quick gfx and then try to get a good artist or two to rework the backgrounds and characters. Don't want to say too much about it though...
I think the publisheridea is interesting for many reasons, although the idea that "it would be the same for all ags games"(Umo) sounds unneccessery n monopolic.
Some reasons:
(i) Developers who dislikes all kind of involvement in businessproceedings, like myself, could hand it over to experienced, skilled and willing people.
(ii) Would most likely reduce the costs/risks for the individual developer.
(iii) Reduced costs/risks would mean that more people would probably consider going commercial. (questionable premise being that this is a good thing).
(iv) A benefitial consequence of (iii) would be that the standard in AGS games would in some aspects probably be raised in general. A less wanted could be cynical commercial thinking.
(v) Marketing would be smoother, hence bigger publicity. A bigger market would generate greater incomes and who knows, maybe some day we d have a professional AGS gamedeveloper among us.
Any thoughts?
Hmm, seems I'm confused as to what commercial really means. If you mean selling a game you're making yourself, that would be me. If you mean getting a publisher to create CDs for you, I can't afford that obviously, nor would it be necessary, as I have a CD writer. :P
I simply mean selling a game you've made, no matter whether you or someone else publish it :)
As for a publisher, loominus, did you ever hear about those N-Bongo guys? Not sure of their URL...
Sadly, Adventure games in general are not selling well.
As one man once said: It doesnt matter if your material is better, it's about convincing people that they need mine that is less good.(or something like that :-\)
So that means it is all about marketing.
m0ds: LOL its Ngongo-B ;D
Exqueeze me, JetXL, but I beg to differ.
As I understood it, Runaway: The Road to Adventure is doing quite well. And that's a very new adventure game. Syberia also sold very well, from what I heard. And with the recent development (Jane Jensen, Sam & Max2, etc.) I think adventure games have proven that they do sell.
But more onto the subject: Nope. I don't plan to go commercial with anything I create. Because: a) they're not up to par with commercial stuff and b) I like making free stuff. :)
I'd love to do an adventure game..
But I need a decent idea and I nice team to do that..
Hey m0ds, tell your secret friend that I'm interested in helping out.. :)
This is a conversation I had with a friend.
jet;"I have a blister on my hand."
friend;"Because you don't have a girlfriend? Hahaha."
jet;"Haha. No I'm making a game."
friend;"What kind of game?"
jet;"An adventure game."
friend;"?"
jet;"Like Monkey Island, Space Quest, Sam&Max, Leisure suit Larry..."
friend;"? You should make a RPG. You can make a lot of money. Those peaple from blizzard are looking for peaple."
jet;"I know, but I'm not doing it for the money."
edit:hobbes, I will buy runaway, sam&max and neighbours from hell when I get the chance. But they won't change the programmers into milionairs.
I've been working on an AGS pinball game which will most likely have to be ordered by cd. I'm also tring to get (hopefully have got) a HUGE Iso game art deally on pixelation, but havnt been planning anything in ags... :-\
Quote from: m0ds on Fri 15/08/2003 09:34:08
Hi, i'm selling these fine leather jackets.
You too?? Wow, that's truly amazing...
Quote
And, at the same time - I was wondering if anyone has got any more commercial game plans by using AGS?
Why not?
Quote
I mean, could The Adventures of Fatman be hailed a success? So far as the reviews went, it seemed so. But I don't know whether Mike made his budget back.
Did he get good PR? I have no idea if he did any PR at all. PR is important.
Quote
Has it prompted anyone to consider making a commercial quality game? I know of one person (who I wont name for fear that I think they told me to keep their project secret :P) who is considering creating a commercial AGS adventure game, but he can't get the right team just yet.
Hmmm.. Was that person me? :o
If yes, then go ahead! Reveal it all!
It's the Foodbelly!!1 ;) :P
You can find some old info here:
http://www.justadventure.com/Upcoming_Releases/RogerFoodbelly/RogerFoodbelly.shtm
Commercial? Where's the love people? This used to be done for the thrill of keeping the flame burning, and suddenly we're all going commercial? Shame on you, greedy money loving fascists. ;)
But seriously, I don't think it's 'right' for me to sell a game made in AGS. When i get around to commercial prodcts, it's all going to be my work (or a team). At the very least I'd want to licence the engine or something.
- Punch
I think at the moment that the only commercial games I'd like to make would be for pocket-PC's. Although I've no idea how I would go about making AGS run on a pocket-PC (if it'd be possible at all!!) and if it meant making a lot of effort I probably wouldn't. Although it'd be exciting to make a pocket-PC adventure game. It's a market that's crying out to be tapped.
Also, I'm thinking of making a few limited edition copies of VPXT, and putting them in a little box on a charity shop counter. I figure that if I'm so confident about my game, and I'm always telling other people to feed the poor with their hobby, I ought to put my vegetables where my mouth is!
I was considering a more commercial approach to my game, and I doubt that anyone, if offered a publisher would turn it down, because for one you'll get your game out to even more people. Of course that's unlikely for this genre anyway, but what I had planned was to release a cut down version (no voices) online, because of the massive filesize it's heading towards already, and release a CD version with extras and voices, much like m0ds is planning for Kinky Island if I'm not mistaken...? :)
If I were to do a commercial game, and like m0ds I think I would love to be a part of the process, it does depend on the team though.
As for adventure games publishing n sales , If a games good its good. I know some people who simply do not like adventure games, but then they are the people that never liked em from the start anyway (must be some kind of birth defect). With the correct marketing a commercial AGS game could easily take off.
i think this quote is appropriate.. "It's a long shot, but it might just do it."
I have to agree with Jet, adventure games just won't sell, here's a convo I had
<Dmitri> hey, just outta curiosity, you guys ever played an adventure game before?
<Riiko> o.o...
<Riiko> yes.
<Riiko> I lurve Metroid.
<Riiko> and Zelda.
<Dmitri> what about games like... Space quest?
<Riiko> I've never heard of that
<Riiko> oh, forgot Morrowind
<Dmitri> umm... Leisure suit Larry
<Riiko> nope
<Riiko> haven't played it
<Dmitri> as a long shot, Monkey Island?
<Riiko> no x.x;
<Dmitri> we were sor of in two different genres, Adventure games are all about problem solving with little to no actual action/mainstream arcade value
<Dmitri> *sort of
<Riiko> ohh
<Riiko> why did I forget that
<Riiko> x.o;
<Dmitri> what about Myst or Gabriel knight, played either of those?
<Riiko> played Myst a little
<Dmitri> ^_^
<Dmitri> Yay! Adventure games aren't dead :D
Edit: Posted with permission
If you can somehow slap an existing Adventure Game like SQ on a PS2, GameCube, or XBox, it may sell pretty well...advanced graphics, better sound/music, and voice acting...
But you can't just say adventure games don't sell so well with an IRC chat!
And Jannar, no - it wasn't you, because everyone already knows about RF :P
eV, I plan too. Let's see if it happens or not ;)
And, Punch - profit may be some people's ambition, but like Ionias', I don't think mine is. I'd just like to say in thirty years time that I released an adventure game that hit the shelves (even if its just the online shelves) because I think it's an achievment.
Distributing a freeware game is also an achievement, yes, but that involves making the game, zipping it, uploading it and buddabing.
Of course, I am more than happy to make freeware adventure games - but I'd love to make at least one commercial game. I can't explain why cos it's quite complicated in my head lol but it's something along the lines of a goal, and since I was a wee lad mine has still been to set up a company that creates point and click adventures.*
m0ds
* Yes, I don't understand what I mean too.
Commercial adventures are so overrated :P
Look at Gilbert Goodmate. As an amateur freeware game, it'd be, without a doubt, very successful. And i'm sure authors would feel great after completing such a huge project and get positive response. After all, the whole thing worked on their enthusiasm as they didn't get payed (in my opinion the difference don't lie in "commercial" or "freeware" title, but in whether people are getting payed *while* they are making the game or not).
But as they went commercial, the response was much less favourable- with some relatively bad reviews and constant complaining of people that the animations are stiff, that characers don't look good in comparison with backgrounds, that voice acting is bad, etc.. Boloney.
Not to say, i highly doubt they made any money with it in the end (if they did earn something, it certainly didn't pay off for 2 years (or more) they spent on making the game). In some interview they even said, they are completely feed up with adventure genre. No surprise.
My opinion is- if you don't get a *really* good deal with possible publisher/company, sponsor, or whoever... don't do it. Go freeware.
I'd like to know what 'selling well' means exactly.
I've always wondered if it's just that the industries standards for what's considered a success have increased, and that adventure games aren't actually selling any worse at all.
Generally, selling well means raking in more money than it cost to make and distribute, much like most other industries :)
Anachronox was a flop even though it was a really superb game (imho) because it didn't sell enough to make enough of a profit for it to be a worthy investment for the games publisher.
Equally, films like Fight Club, even though most agree it's a fantastic movie, was a flop because it didn't make enough money to equal the 63 million budget it cost. Of course overall it probably made money, due to DVD/Video sales and various other additions. Unforutnately though, in the games industry it just comes down to how many copies it sells when it's put on the shelves.
"it won't sell well" "adventure games are dead" bah be quiet
the IF community is kicking everyone's collective amateur asses and when's the last time any of those ever got sold in a store?
i have 2.5 scripts written for a series of adventure games I want to make and sell. I'm going to walk into electronic stores and say "wanna sell my game?" then i'm going to draw a little comic and stick it in the bag and walk into comic book shops and say "wanna sell my game?" then i'm going to go online and say "wanna buy my game?"
if at some point I want to try and sell more copies in stores [which may not be necessary at all, the internet is the greatest resource we have to sell and get noticed, use it to it's full potential and it will treat you well.[which is something i've been meaning to ask Ionias, if he's gone on a maniacle spree[teh pun] of selling himself on the internet, asking for reviews or try to get on various sites, even ones that really don't ONLY cover adventure games, there are people out there who love games, not just genres]] if at some point i want to make it into more stores maybe i'll just pick an FYE out of the phone book and start calling, shipping them there if they agree. or find a publisher online and save up and do it.
if there's anything i learned from college it's that i can't expect to be a millionaire in anything i do. all i can do is create what i want to create and make sure people see it by being agressive and persistent.
making my little comic books and selling them in new york city hasn't gotten me one job, having a site on the internet has gotten me the jobs. Getting into stores will be nice but selling on the internet is the way to go.
that was pretty long and rambling so i'll show a potential sprite for me new game:
(http://www.sylpher.com/kafka/junk/crimsonshade32.gif)
edit: ah hell, here's another i just made
(http://www.sylpher.com/kafka/junk/test.gif)
love,
eric
Camp Quest!
Nice rant tho, eric :)
:P
m0ds
MrColossal: Love the pose in the second sprite. Very cute. Reminds me of a guy I saw at the gay pride parade this weekend ;)
MrBig is right. Stores are overrated.
Ionias has the right idea. It's a little more work, but at least you've got complete control over everything, and you don't have to deal with pea brained game store employees.
the first guy is cool (although alarmingly lacking gentiles!)
The second guy looks like his hips are glued on at the wrong angle!! It'd be alarming if I wasn't so used to seeing it. I should probably get someone without a lazy eye to help me straighten mine out...
YOUR PICTURES ARE COOL!
EDIT:
I really love the thought of being able to get amateur games sold in shops (although probably not games shops, as they're often quite snooty). Just the idea of LOCAL computer games tickles me.
supposedly that's how sid meir got his start, he made a game for the ...something something... commodore or whatever, copied it to disks, printed the manual out on his dot matrix [ahhhh the sites and sounds of dot matrix] and walked to a game store and said "wanna buy my game?"
i don't see why not to go to game's shops. even if they are snooty go to another one in a different area, speak to the manager. convice them, give them hea---
heading.. Be a beacon
eric
wow, I bet you just mentioned talking to shop owners to set you up with a GENIOUS "giving head" gag later in the thread. You're wild man! WILD!
and i even referenced a movie with it!! I have my fingers in alllll the pies!
oh yea, here's a question, who would pay 3 dollars for Pleurburgh?
And who would pay 50 cents for 6 Day Assassin?
eric
I would, but you already know that, since we talked about it before.
I bet a lot of people would. The big issue is making transactions easy over the net. A lot of people are still afraid to use their credit cards, paypal is annoying etc...
see that's the problem, yea. making the transaction easier. which is a problem we as game creators can't change
i mean, 3 bucks for PB, 3703 times downloaded times 3 dollars = 3703 * 3 = 11109
50 cents for 6DA + 7506 times downloaded = 7506*.5 = 3753
if my math isn't totally retarded.
imagine a simple process of just clicking "download" and "agree" to pay 3 bucks for PB, which is WELL worth it. and chrille would get the mad money.
not that it's all about the monies
eric
It would be nice but so would a lot of stuff.
Truer words were never spoken.
oh yea, i've been meaning to mention
how come garage gothic and the captain [two gay males as i see it] and mods both assumed that the second sprite was gay?
when i drew him he was a male counterpart to the female character i was drawing at the time, he was straight as an arrow and very much attatched to the woman he was drawn for
what i find funny is that at the same time this was said we were saying how stereotypes in games and in life are stupid and that people shouldn't do it
just cause he's got a little slant in his hips doesn't mean anything but he's got a slant in his hips
explain yourselves
eric
I think it's worth mentioning that we would pay 3 bucks for Pleurghburg because we've ALREADY played it and we know it's great. See the problem there? You'll have a much harder time showing 3703 people who've never played it screenshots and then saying "Now pay 3 bucks and download it." It's not that 3 bucks is a lot of money, but it IS money, and people have to go through the trouble of getting out their wallets and a credit card (not to mention, I'm sure there were many who played that game who were of an age that generally doesn't have credit cards yet), while there are a ton of other AGS games they could get for free. The solution, of course? Make all AGS games cost money! ;D
Oh, come on Eric. You draw a character in a pose that is widely recognised as being camp, and then question why people assumed he was gay?
That's like drawing a guy in a beret with a string of onions round his neck, then wondering why people assume he's french.
Quotewhat i find funny is that at the same time this was said we were saying how stereotypes in games and in life are stupid and that people shouldn't do it
But it does show
why games use stereotypes in the first place, as apparently it's VERY easy to connote gayness through small visual signifyers. Congrats on creating a non-stereotypical straight character! :)
hehe, i'm not screaming against it nellie
it's just curious
and i think it relates to a thread in the critics lounge too where people are saying that a hero should look this way and not this way
just popped in me head and i wondered why
For the record, I didn't notice the campiness of it until it was pointed out.
When we don't have too good methods of letting our characters' characteristics shining through, we have to employ obvious symbols and stereotypes to make the player make the proper conclusions...
In reality, you can say "I had this hunch Justin was gay, you know, cause he had this look in his eyes when he spoke to Slade on the party yesterday", but in a game, we don't have access to that much means of story-telling, so when we have a gay character, we draw him like a female.
Pretty much like Eric did when he drew that camp dude on the previous page.
I've been battling this for a while, not just in game development but I'm involved in a lot of placements that cause you to wonder what Commericalism, and if its really up to par. Sure you can try to create things and hope people buy them, but Publishing is a whole new bag of worms, I've had Cd's and comics done before, but they've been sold chiefly on material costs, just to be able to do it. With the internet you don't really need to do that. Things like independent game creation using a Royality-free engine like AGS, or even a mod or somthing its usually (at least as I see it) a learning experiance. Is it really worth trying to sell your Vision, or have people see it. Its like making music and no being able to listen to it without paying a ticket at the door, or a painting locked up for non-paying Museum goers. If you can do it for free why not? Why keep it from the eyes of those who want to support it. If you want to make money in the video game industry, AGS is not really the way to do it. No matter how good your game is your still going to be look at as an amature, and when there are so many free games, why would someone buy your game when there are 500+ with the same engine, and virtually the same game play experience.
How i've always thought is everything I do is for my portfolio, would ever be a commerical artist? I don't think I would, but thats cause I know I'm an amature. People see my visions as that.. but the fact they see my visions is good enough for me. If I was to look at making a game that was purposefully for making money, I'd look for an adventure (or any game) from the ground level. And look at making a game outside a preexisting engine. Yes I agree there are a lot of versitiliy with this engine and there are a lot of ways to make it diffrent. but using the AGS engine seems to be given the attitude of free.
I've almost broke even with my game sales. I've sold 125 copies to date and I'm still getting about 1-3 per week. I have only pimped myself on the "pure-adventure" game sites. I only gave out free review copies to any other game sites if they asked me. (example: Gamer's Hell) So I guess I could have been more aggressive with the PR, but I reached my goal. Honestly, I didn't think there was any market for a 320x200 adventure game. Guess I proved myself wrong. Not only was there a market but I made enough cash to build a sound studio and order some niffty shrink wrap stuff for my next game.
Oh... yes there will be a next game! ... I would love it if you could do the soundtrack on it m0ds. But it is to soon for that yet, as I'm still experimenting with other styles and I might switch over from AGS to DarkBASIC as the next project may be 3d. Not sure yet tho ... so don't flame me! :)
Here is a screenshot from when I was playing around in flash:
(http://www.socko-entertainment.com/temp/cartoon_test.gif)