i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??
please let me know, i'm really interested in the result!
I think that a month for a game is too short when you must learn AGS too in this time.I would make it a bi-monthly competion.
I sucked at drawing whether on the computer or on paper(my entry into the last sprite jam was probably a huge embarrassment but at least it looked like what it was, an axe.) How about instead of a beginner's bmags, a beginners sprite jam because the last one was one of the easiest I have seen for ages and that's why I felt I could at least enter. Or optionally you could have both.
A beginner's sprite jam could have both a slightly longer time limit but as the quality of the graphics of the main reasons for choosing winners, beginner's, like me could submit not so brilliant sprite without concern that theirs would be the worse and it'd encourage beginner's to improve their sprite drawing skills, eventually they'd like to move up to the regular one in most cases. In addition to this the specifications for the sprite jam could be simpler things to draw than the usual sprite jam ones, the most current one was an excellent example but many more can be thought of if you try.
I realise some may perceive this as a possible hijacking of this thread and that I have hostile intentions, in that I squash the authors idea in order to get mine chose. This is mostly untrue. While I think my idea is better I support the idea of beginner's areas for most competitions here and bmag is one that I would support. I'd just like to see sprite jam get a similar deal. Having beginner's competitions, spin offs of the main ones is a great way of getting people who have little drawing/audio making, etc. experience to give it a try, when before they might have usually decided not to due to the great ability of the people entering the normal comps. Also this could very well lead to them gaining interest in continuing to practice whatever form of creativity they enter a beginner's competition for and then perhaps eventually if they stick with it they may even one day be good enough to win a prize in the normal comps.
After all these activities are supposed designed to"Practice your art, music, writing and game making skills in the forum competitions." and most of the people who enter these comps from what I've seen need little practice in certain areas, whereas beginner's need lots.
yes, i was thinking bi-monthly also......
sprite jam eh? if you wish, you can pm me and we can discuss it further. there could be a number of different competitions the beginner could enter.
Hmmm....
I don't want to sound rude or anything but I don't see the real point of either of these.
The point of entering the sprite jam and the MAGS competitions is not to solely to win - it is to have fun. Sure, a winner is decided, but a bit of competition makes people try a bit harder. As much as I love it (and have only participated in one thus far), the mags competition doesn't get a heap of entries. My concern would be that having a "kiddie pool" (not intended as offensive, ps :)) version of these would pull away entries from the main competition. If you want to make a short little game in a month, make one, without relying on a group of others doing the same thing. People will play it. You won't be in the draw to winning a competition, but you'll be a winner because you've released a game.
With regards to the sprite jam - if you really want to learn how to draw better, post in the Critic's Lounge. If you just want to have a bit of fun and draw sprites to a theme, enter the sprite jam. You mention you feel that some rulesets are quite complex, and I'd like to point out that you can draw simple versions of practically anything, should you choose.
I don't really see how any of the competitions are not "Beginner friendly" - unless of course you wish to win, which I don't see as being the point of the activity.
This may have been slightly longer than $0.02 pays for, but I like to get my money's worth :).
Well if someone knows of a tutorial for drawing computer sprites and/or images using GIMP I'd love to know because most are Photoshop based and without the program how can I follow them properly. I know GIMPShop is designed to emulate Photoshop's interface but I don't know if it'll work well enough to work with the tutorials. Also I don't have a scanner, not to mention the fact I draw at least just as bad on paper as I do on a computer.
One a more relevant note, in the last Sprite Jam, the only competition here I ever entered, someone said it was mainly based on graphic quality as to who wins or get 1st or 2nd runner up. If this is really the case in general with Sprite Jam than beginner's haven't a chance because I've looked over many of the former Sprite Jams and most of the entries were done by people who could draw on a computer really well. Of course it's not just about winning but let's get a little bit real, human nature means we want to win, if only a little bit. It doesn't take away from the fun but you can't have a competition without people wanting to win, as I said human nature.
All I'm saying is by introducing perhaps just one trial beginner's sprite jam where anyone who has proven they have fairly good computer drawing skills are ineligible to enter can entice those that would perhaps otherwise(like myself, yes I do admit that) not dare enter such competitions usually, not just because they probably wouldn't win but because(and again this goes for my entry in the previous sprite jam) be embarrassed to submit, essentially beginner's work, especially when the skill and talent of the other contestants is not intentionally but realistically right in front of them in the thread. It could encourage people who have wanted to learn to draw on a computer or are just learning and suffering from low self esteem a reason to keep going, you can forget the trophies and just say who the winners are, make it more about the person who looked like they tried their best regardless of how crappy their image looks rather than how wonderful it looks but may have been easy as to do, example I drew a sprite of a portable TV the other day, passable and nice but easy to draw because of the design, mostly straight lines and round patterns, I did the whole thing in MS Paint.
doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?
Quote from: BOYD1981 on Sun 06/04/2008 13:35:03
doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?
Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before, I don't know if there is a term for what
Andorxor was referring to but it's obvious he meant once every 2 months.
@RockChick
I feel that I have never actually seen a tutorial on how to draw a sprite that has helped me draw a sprite at all. The times I have improved have been through practising and through posting work on the critics lounge, and then listening to people's advice. This hasn't made me into a pro artist, but it has taken me further than just looking at tutorials would have.
With regards to drawing in the Gimp and such - it is rarely your equipment that holds you back. I use the Gimp and GraphicsGale, and hey, I love those programs, but when I draw sprites, 90% of the time I draw them in MS Paint. I have no idea why, either. But I cannot draw better in the Gimp or Gale, so I don't feel that MS Paint (as annoying as it can be at times) should ever hold back the quality of your sprites.
With regards to being embarrassed to enter a competition - why? Your art, if you put the effort in, is a representation of your current skill, and people will respect that. They might offer criticism, and that can seem harsh at times, but generally we all want you to get better. If you truly want to get better, I strongly recommend the critic's lounge. I learnt pretty much everything I know when it comes to graphics by posting in there.
Mods: If this seems inappropriate or offtopic, I'll gladly take it into PMs. Just say the word.
Quote from: Ben304 on Sun 06/04/2008 13:50:03
@RockChick
I feel that I have never actually seen a tutorial on how to draw a sprite that has helped me draw a sprite at all. The times I have improved have been through practising and through posting work on the critics lounge, and then listening to people's advice. This hasn't made me into a pro artist, but it has taken me further than just looking at tutorials would have.
With regards to drawing in the Gimp and such - it is rarely your equipment that holds you back. I use the Gimp and GraphicsGale, and hey, I love those programs, but when I draw sprites, 90% of the time I draw them in MS Paint. I have no idea why, either. But I cannot draw better in the Gimp or Gale, so I don't feel that MS Paint (as annoying as it can be at times) should ever hold back the quality of your sprites.
With regards to being embarrassed to enter a competition - why? Your art, if you put the effort in, is a representation of your current skill, and people will respect that. They might offer criticism, and that can seem harsh at times, but generally we all want you to get better. If you truly want to get better, I strongly recommend the critic's lounge. I learnt pretty much everything I know when it comes to graphics by posting in there.
Mods: If this seems inappropriate or offtopic, I'll gladly take it into PMs. Just say the word.
I shall ask you a question, can you or could you ever sketch on paper or on a computer an even somewhat decent looking image that included more than straight lines, shapes that are offered with MS Paint, etc? If the answer is yes then while I understand you are trying to help me you can not compare yourself to me as I can do neither. If the is no, then please enlighten me as to how you first(before any critic lounge posts) did you manage to do so without using any tutorials? Because that would certainly put us in the same boat at one time. Please note while this post may sound condescending and perhaps a bit antagonising, that was by no means my intention, I am a wannabe writer and sometimes my dramatic flare can surface in forum posts.
I wanted to say what Ben said earlier but the site was down or something... ???
anyway... It's so true. Tutorials can point you in the right direction and show techniques but in the end practice makes perfect. If you practice alot you will get better. It's like that with everthing really. :)
Just don't be shy to post in competitions and such. I've been a fan of the MAGS for a while and I've seen alot of entries that were just rubbish. But the authors kept trying and got better.
So go for it!
Quote from: Nagania on Sun 06/04/2008 05:10:55
i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??
I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.
Rock Chick,
I suck at drawing on paper. I've been practising a lot lately, but the honest truth I am awful at it.
How did I manage to do it before the critic's lounge?
Badly :).
But I stuck with it. And wasn't afraid to ask for help, and more importantly, listen when help was offered. To my eternal shame, I still ignore good advice to this day, although not if I can help it. I'd like to think that if I listened properly everytime I was offered advice, I'd be good at art by now.
I've drawn my fair share of absolutely horrible sprites - still draw plenty of them. But the more I tried, the easier I found it to make them a little less horrible. I'm not ashamed when I draw something bad. I see how far I can take it on my own, and when I cannot take it any further than that, I ask for help. I keep in mind that nobody can draw well overnight, but a bit of advice from someone more experienced can help me step in the right direction.
Never mind about appearing condescending - you've a right to say how you feel. If you want help, I sincerely recommend the critic's lounge, once again.
Oh - just noticed CJ posting while I was typing this. I agree - enter the MAGS competition. The time I did it, I had loads of fun and emerged with a great deal more experience.
Sorry if I seem to be dragging this thread WAY offtopic.
Quote from: Ben304 on Sun 06/04/2008 14:58:16
Rock Chick,
I suck at drawing on paper. I've been practising a lot lately, but the honest truth I am awful at it.
How did I manage to do it before the critic's lounge?
Badly :).
But I stuck with it. And wasn't afraid to ask for help, and more importantly, listen when help was offered. To my eternal shame, I still ignore good advice to this day, although not if I can help it. I'd like to think that if I listened properly every time I was offered advice, I'd be good at art by now.
I've drawn my fair share of absolutely horrible sprites - still draw plenty of them. But the more I tried, the easier I found it to make them a little less horrible. I'm not ashamed when I draw something bad. I see how far I can take it on my own, and when I cannot take it any further than that, I ask for help. I keep in mind that nobody can draw well overnight, but a bit of advice from someone more experienced can help me step in the right direction.
Never mind about appearing condescending - you've a right to say how you feel. If you want help, I sincerely recommend the critic's lounge, once again.
Oh - just noticed CJ posting while I was typing this. I agree - enter the MAGS competition. The time I did it, I had loads of fun and emerged with a great deal more experience.
Sorry if I seem to be dragging this thread WAY offtopic.
Well I did a very simple graphic in MS Paint the other day and have just posted it in the critics lounge but it was mainly made with the straight line tool and the shapes tools, drawing sprites for example seems almost beyond my reach, I feel it requires the ability to have a very steady hand with the mouse whilst using the pencil or a similar drawing material and I don't seem to have that. I think a mixture of tutorials, competitions, the critics lounge and obviously and I have known this the whole time, regular practice, if you don't practice regularly at something, especially something you're only learning or are not very good at you might as well not bother. I learnt that lesson in training for certain things and in high school(btw, in Australia our high schools have years 7(usually 12 year olds) to year 12(usually 17 year olds) students and no middle school like the USA. I sometimes wonder what it might have been like to attend a middle school but since I hated school(for social reasons, I have a social phobia so I was considered a freak and therefore ending up wagging school lots) if I attend Middle school I would have probably found a way to drop out before I even got to high school. I dropped out of high school without even completing year 8 but a few years later I was allowed to do correspondence work and eventually finished high school with average results, yes this is off topic and now people may think I'm a freak but if that's the case I don't care, I am who I am!
Also since I can't even draw a sprite entering a MAGS competition would be pointless.
Quote from: Pumaman on Sun 06/04/2008 14:56:15
Quote from: Nagania on Sun 06/04/2008 05:10:55
i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??
I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.
CJ(I have no idea why you choose a different username on these forums) only a very small handful of beginners like myself would bother entering such a competition for the reason I mentioned earlier on. The evidence can be found in looking at many previous competitions and the quality of the entires and who entered, how can you be sure such a thing is a key reason why beginner's would not bother entering? A beginner's competition, a trial and for just one competition, a drawing based one, at least would give you and others a chance to see if that is the case. If it attracts few to no entries I'm probably wrong and you're probably right and you could scrap the whole thing but if a whole new bunch of people came out of the woodwork and submitted entries(given that seasoned artists were not allowed to submit entries, however there's no reason why they'd want to) then there just may be something to what I was saying. All I'm asking is you give the idea a chance.
Nothing is stopping you from starting an unofficial competition for example here in the Adventure chit-chat forum. But still, the whole point of every contest in the Competitions forum is, aside from having fun, to learn how to do these things.
And no, I did not bother to read the ridiculous amount of text in this thread so someone probably mentioned this already. In that case, consider this post a backup for those arguments.
Quote from: Pumaman on Sun 06/04/2008 14:56:15
Quote from: Nagania on Sun 06/04/2008 05:10:55
i was just wondering if anybody here would be interested in or consider taking part in a monthly ags competition, (mags), for beginners only??
I don't really see much point in having a separate competition for beginners. There's nothing to stop you entering the normal MAGS contest, and whilst you probably wouldn't win to begin with, it would give you the practice you needed to improve and then be able to win later rounds of the contest.
I'm gonna have to go with CJ on this. I find the best way to learn is to dive in head-first. There's nothing like a dead-line to make me learn things faster and keep me focused on it! That's just my two cents.
Also ...
Quote from: BOYD1981 on Sun 06/04/2008 13:35:03doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?
And...
Quote from: rock_chick on Sun 06/04/2008 13:45:13
Quote from: BOYD1981 on Sun 06/04/2008 13:35:03
doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?
Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before, I don't know if there is a term for what Andorxor was referring to but it's obvious he meant once every 2 months.
Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).
So says wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-monthly) so say we all :)
I borrowed a book from the library about 3 years ago on drawing sprites for computer games. It goes into a lot of detail and was very helpful. Anyhow it is now available as a free download. Ignore the fact that it is called 'Designing Arcade Computer Game Graphics' it is aimed at game graphics in general.
Download here (http://www.gamemaker.nl/feldman/full.zip)
Quote from: Pablo on Sun 06/04/2008 15:39:03
Nothing is stopping you from starting an unofficial competition for example here in the Adventure chit-chat forum. But still, the whole point of every contest in the Competitions forum is, aside from having fun, to learn how to do these things.
And no, I did not bother to read the ridiculous amount of text in this thread so someone probably mentioned this already. In that case, consider this post a backup for those arguments.
I didn't think such a thing was allowed and despite not reading all the text in this thread your idea had not already been brought up. However even if it were allowed, wouldn't it been seen as offensive to CJ or other mods and possibly lead to conflicts?
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 06/04/2008 15:39:48
I'm gonna have to go with CJ on this. I find the best way to learn is to dive in head-first. There's nothing like a dead-line to make me learn things faster and keep me focused on it! That's just my two cents.
For some that is very true for others a deadline leads to stress and can make someone rush an entry(therefore entering an entry not as good as it could be, especially when it comes to beginners).
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 06/04/2008 15:39:48
Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).
So says wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-monthly) so say we all :)
That's no different than what I said, 6 times a year would mean one every 2 months considering there's 12 months in a year. In fact here is a quote from the wikipedia article you provided a link for that says almost exactly what I said.
"that is published every two months, that is six times each year." The article you linked 2 referred to magazines but the same principle would apply to other things.
However I still feel the MAGS competition is a bad idea for a beginner's competition(I can already imagine people rolling their eyes and thinking I'm going to go on with the Sprite Jam again but I can surprise too), sure sprite jam is a good example but so is the colouring ball and the background blitz. Any of these for beginner's would be a better idea than a beginner's MAGS competition.
Quote from: rock_chick on Sun 06/04/2008 15:56:03
I didn't think such a thing was allowed
Can you see a rule anywhere that says "Don't start new competitions in ANY forums without permission"? Because I can't. Such activities have been started in the General Discussion forum before and that's actually probably the best place to put it. Of course it's not gonna gather as much attention as it would in the Competitions forum but it's better than nothing.
Of course I'm not a moderator and not responsible for any forum rules, therefore it is possible that I could be horribly wrong about this. But I doubt it.
Quote from: rock_chick on Sun 06/04/2008 15:56:03
However even if it were allowed, wouldn't it been seen as offensive to CJ or other mods and possibly lead to conflicts?
I can't see how it could offend any of these people you mention. It's not like it could have a damaging effect on the community. Quite the contrary.
Well as a beginner myself I would be interested in hosting such a completion, however as the host I would not be allowed to enter and since I am merely a beginner I question whether I would be qualified to pick the winners. On he other hand, who better to pick beginners entries for winning positions than a beginner themselves. Also if the idea too off, the winner would be encouraged to start another event and I would be allowed to enter.
The competitions board isn't so much somewhere to prove your worth as just to have fun. People won't care if you draw terrible sprites, write horrible music or make bad MAGS games. The idea is to motivate you to do things you wouldn't normally do, put a little effort in and learn a bit, as well as just have a laugh.
I think a month is more than enough for a MAGS. Short enough to wait for a new topic, long enough to get the work done. If it were any longer people would lose focus and chances are something would come up in real life. In fact even if you can't finish a MAGS game, at least you've tried. One of the most valuable lessons it teaches beginners and experts is to think small. If you struggle on every aspect of making a game you will have at least something complete as long as you aren't too ambitious.
If you haven't released a game before I thoroughly recommend entering a MAGS, whatever the quality of your finished game, as long as it is your best effort.
I am talking about sprite jam, background blitz and the colouring ball for beginners not MAGS.
I said that in the post just before yours. Maybe someone should get CJ over here to read that post so he tell me whether I'm allowed to do such a thing, whether I'd need to rename the games and if I could would it make people take me less seriously in the future.
Guys, gals, countrymen. The most important thing is this:
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/bimonthly
Everyone is right!
wow, alot to read....
the point of this competition, as alot of people havn't seen to grasp, is so that beginners, who aren't particularly confident can enter into a much less confronting competition than mags.
also, instead of having only 1 month, the beginner has two, which gives them more time to experiment and learn, but they still have a deadline, which they indeed need to learn to reach.
in the normal MAGS competition, how many excuses aer there where people say: "Oh, didn't get it finished in time, maybe next time."
We don't want beginners to learn to make excuses, do we?? We want them to learn skills.
I appreciate everyones opinion, I think I will attempt to procede with the competition, and if it isn't popular, so be it!
Hey anything but the MAGS one! Please!
On the other hand you're the man.
Maybe someone decides to enter MAGS. He makes all the stuff he needs and starts to write the game. As time goes by he realizes that he can't finish it in time. He just has to say: Okay, I didn't make it in time to enter MAGS. But heck!, I have come so far, I will finish it nonetheless. Look at Modalles' "Duty and Beyond". It was intended to be a MAGS game (IIRC), but he didn't make it in time. So he released it afterwards, and it has an 89% overall rating.
What I'm trying to say, is: It's not about the competion, it's about games. MAGS doesn't want to get you started, it wants to see, if you can make it in a month. You don't win anything, after all; it's just for yourself.
My advice for beginners: Try to bring up a small and polished game, e.g. like JBurger' "La Croix Pan". It's his first, it's short, but great nonetheless.
And why should there be a beginner's Sprite Jam or BB. What for? Sure, when certain users enter, they're likely to win. But as I said: It's not about winning a competition, it's about making sprites and backgrounds. Keep in mind, that there are several voting categories in BBlitz. One e.g. is for usability in games. Creating a usable BG hasn't something to do with good graphical skills.
Quote from: nihilyst on Sun 06/04/2008 23:02:34
And why should there be a beginner's Sprite Jam or BB. What for? Sure, when certain users enter, they're likely to win.
Well for for both or any beginner's competition there should be clear rules that make anyone who is clearly not a beginner not allowed to enter for that very reason and usually it wouldn't be too hard to figure out whose a real beginner and who isn't. So if a non beginner submits an entry they are thrown out of the competition, their entry is void and then a database of these jerks can be kept for future reference, and very few AGS forum members would want to risk that type of shame. Plus most non beginner's would probably not be so pathetic as to stoop that low.
Big Momma's Adult Games Society
well done you have successfully created a stupid joke!
Quote from: Tuomas on Mon 07/04/2008 00:55:05
Big Momma's Adult Games Society
You just made an ass out of yourself because Nagania is a MAN, perhaps in your haste to overwork your few brain cells you forget to check his profile. ;D
ladies and gentlemen lets all stick to the topic yes??
i realise tuomas has issues but lets just concentrate on the thread.
One really has a stick up one's ass, doesn't one?
Quote from: rock_chick on Mon 07/04/2008 01:08:02
Quote from: Tuomas on Mon 07/04/2008 00:55:05
Big Momma's Adult Games Society
You just made an ass out of yourself because Nagania is a MAN, perhaps in your haste to overwork your few brain cells you forget to check his profile. ;D
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjA0NTI1MzcxOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTE4ODkyMQ@@._V1._SY400_SX600_.jpg)
Also, I prefer donkey to ass, if you don't mind.
Woah, bit of a harsh reaction to a harmless joke, boys and girls. Let's not get too serious hey?
Regarding "only beginners" competitions.
Who is going to decide where the line is drawn between beginners and experienced people? What if a new guy to drawing or the forums puts a lot of effort in, spends hours perfecting his sprite, tweaking and polishing, and then enters it in the competition, only to have people disqualifying it because it is too good? That's not going to make any friends.
Not saying it won't work, just interested to know how you plan to define it with only minimal feelings hurt.
Quote from: Ben304 on Mon 07/04/2008 01:46:35
Woah, bit of a harsh reaction to a harmless joke, boys and girls. Let's not get too serious hey?
Regarding "only beginners" competitions.
Who is going to decide where the line is drawn between beginners and experienced people? What if a new guy to drawing or the forums puts a lot of effort in, spends hours perfecting his sprite, tweaking and polishing, and then enters it in the competition, only to have people disqualifying it because it is too good? That's not going to make any friends.
Not saying it won't work, just interested to know how you plan to define it with only minimal feelings hurt.
Entires wont be disqualified because their too good, only people found to be not real beginners will be and there's other ways to find that out than how good their entry is.
i'm kinda relying on people beeing honest. if one is really good, we're not going to disqualify it for skill!
and anyway, if someone doesn't win, it doesn't matter, as long as they know they've done a good job, which we will be sure of telling them.
as i have said, we kinda rely on people to be honest whether they are beginners or not.
by beginner, i have said they have had four or less months experience in AGS.
no more than that.
So consider I've been kind of a user for 4 years, but haven't done anything that would make me less newbie than the beginners, would I qualify?
Tuomas kind of beat me to it, but anyway:
Quote from: rock_chick on Mon 07/04/2008 01:55:18
Entires wont be disqualified because their too good, only people found to be not real beginners will be and there's other ways to find that out than how good their entry is.
I'm intrigued. What ways? How do you define a "beginner"? This is a big problem that will no doubt stir up a lot of controversy if this idea is developed further.
Is beginner someone who has no experience in game creation? Or is it someone who just started using AGS? Because in that case the person could have years of experience behind them and could make an awesome game even though hasn't made games with AGS before.
I'd really like to hear your definition on this.
In a sense you could have something that serves as a starting point, as I assume this is partly. Picture a beginners class on the Spanish language. Would you attend after 15 years of studies on that area or as a native? Probably not in your interest then. To keep it newbie only, you might want to present topics that don't draw experienced people in, not that I would consider it an issue at that, with the name and all. A game of one puzzle would probably be something of the line here, but still a bit vague and uninspiring. A whole game though might intrigue a lot of people, and when it comes to creating a whole game, well, a month might be not enough for a complete newbie who's still elarning the basics of AGS.
It's 2 months you fool, MAGS is one month.
Nice attitude. Actually Tuomas is right: he was saying that the MAGS, which is only a month, might not be enough time.
I'm still not so sure though, I think 2 months is just too much planning for a beginner. The graphics and design will start to go stale and people will lose interest. Since beginners improve rapidly, you want to give a short timescale to get to grips with everything without too much future planning. A new game is always motivation, and starting from an experienced foundation will keep that motivation going much longer.
Don't forget that people have made games in under an hour before (although terrible), and the OROWs (one room, one week) had a great turnout, and some of those were very highly polished. A one room game is a great MAGS format for unconfident people.
If you're set on making a beginner's competition you can just not allow the same person to win too frequently.
Quote from: CodeJunkie on Mon 07/04/2008 02:44:14
Nice attitude. Actually Tuomas is right: he was saying that the MAGS, which is only a month, might not be enough time.
I'm still not so sure though, I think 2 months is just too much planning for a beginner. The graphics and design will start to go stale and people will lose interest. Since beginners improve rapidly, you want to give a short timescale to get to grips with everything without too much future planning. A new game is always motivation, and starting from an experienced foundation will keep that motivation going much longer.
Don't forget that people have made games in under an hour before (although terrible), and the OROWs (one room, one week) had a great turnout, and some of those were very highly polished. A one room game is a great MAGS format for unconfident people.
If you're set on making a beginner's competition you can just not allow the same person to win too frequently.
Okay I realised he was talking about MAGS but saying a newbie probably wouldn't be able to finish within a month kind of supports my case. The attitude is because he was a jerk earlier and rarely seems to stop being one today.
An entrant can only enter twice so I don't think the same person winning too much is an issue.
Within 24 hours my reputation here has been rapidly going down hill merely because I support a new idea, it's a bloody joke.
Besides it's a trial run, if it attracts little to no interest from sincere beginners(and the debate ranges on as to who a real beginner is) it will have failed and be abandoned but at the end of the day it was tried.
It disappoints me that you'd accuse somebody who supports much of what you're saying of being a jerk.
An entrant can only enter twice? You're hoping that we get enough new people in that will contribute to this competition that two entries only per person will be enough to sustain a competition? It would be absolutely fantastic if this is the case.
With regards to your reputation going downhill because you support a new idea... I disagree. If somebody's reputation goes down, I feel it is more a case of how they support the idea, not the idea they choose to support.
I still fail to see the point of the activity, but good luck with it still :).
Quote from: Ben304 on Mon 07/04/2008 04:03:44
It disappoints me that you'd accuse somebody who supports much of what you're saying of being a jerk.
An entrant can only enter twice? You're hoping that we get enough new people in that will contribute to this competition that two entries only per person will be enough to sustain a competition? It would be absolutely fantastic if this is the case.
With regards to your reputation going downhill because you support a new idea... I disagree. If somebody's reputation goes down, I feel it is more a case of how they support the idea, not the idea they choose to support.
I still fail to see the point of the activity, but good luck with it still :).
Haven't you lead this page and the one before it, Tuomas has on occasion been a jerk to me and has in no way supported me!
You know what I'm starting to think this whole beginner's contests is a silly idea myself, I'm moving on.
I think this thread is great, its the first time that a female AGS member has followed in the footsteps of yodaman, Elliot Hird, Flukeblake, LJUBI, etc. Go equality!
My advice is to deal with personal issues in PMs rather than threads, as it makes everyone look bad to air dirty laundry in public.
I can understand not wanting to enter some competitions becuase there are people who keep entering and always win. I managed to win MAGS once waaay back, but I know I could never win any of the music or art competitions, because the standard is so high. MAGS is probably the easiest for a newbie to win, becuase it relies on a good idea being executed to a reasonable standard and on hard work, rather than 1337 art skills. (If you doubt this, check out my MAGS entry, Pixel Hunt!)
Quote from: rock_chick on Mon 07/04/2008 02:57:14
Okay I realised he was talking about MAGS but saying a newbie probably wouldn't be able to finish within a month kind of supports my case. The attitude is because he was a jerk earlier and rarely seems to stop being one today.
Well it kinda depends on the newbie in this case. I could say on my own behalf I might probably not be able to finish a game within a month, but of course I can't speak for other people.
Quote from: rock_chick on Mon 07/04/2008 04:52:02Haven't you lead this page and the one before it, Tuomas has on occasion been a jerk to me and has in no way supported me!
One harmless acronym joke that was in no way pointed at you or anyone else! :P :-*
Quote from: Pablo on Mon 07/04/2008 02:02:52
I'm intrigued. What ways? How do you define a "beginner"? This is a big problem that will no doubt stir up a lot of controversy if this idea is developed further.
I'm wondering about that myself. For instance, among artists I'd rank myself a "beginner", even if in other areas I'd rank myself higher than that.
Also, I seem to recall several MAGS contests being won by beginners. Wasn't Trance-Pacific (who won best-of-2007) one of them?
Ok, first off: I'm sympathetic towards the idea of a MAGS for beginners.
Mainly because I think that after you've finished that first game, you're past that first psychological bump in the road, if you know what I mean.
So any competition helping you in that would be a plus.
(the rest is numbered for your convenience)
1. There's no way you can tell how 'experienced' or how 'noobish' someone is. They might have drawn cartoons, or programmed something in Pascal/Delphi, which gives them a major headstart.
You'll just have to trust people. I think anyone trying to fake 'noobishnish' to win a Beginners Competition, is sad beyond comprehension anyway.
The only rule that makes sense is setting a maximum of one/two entries.
2. Two months is a long time. One month seems ideal to me.
What about supplying graphics? Insta-game and RON spring to mind. That way people can focus on their story and programming.
3. And while I'm brainstorming: you could use a signup list where the competition starts when there are enough partakers, if after a while it seems take there are no people taking part.
Quote from: rock_chick on Mon 07/04/2008 02:57:14
Within 24 hours my reputation here has been rapidly going down hill merely because I support a new idea, it's a bloody joke.
You're just being enthusiastic about an idea, nothing wrong with that. Just try to keep it civil. Tuomas actually supported the idea in his post with the Spanish lesson metaphor.
Just ignore the witty/silly remarks if you don't think they're funny.
Ok, the numbering was a bit redundant.
Quote from: TwinMoon on Mon 07/04/2008 12:42:24
1. There's no way you can tell how 'experienced' or how 'noobish' someone is. They might have drawn cartoons, or programmed something in Pascal/Delphi, which gives them a major headstart.
You'll just have to trust people. I think anyone trying to fake 'noobishnish' to win a Beginners Competition, is sad beyond comprehension anyway.
The only rule that makes sense is setting a maximum of one/two entries.
You are right here.
But if one considers himself as a real beginner but still has what it takes to make a professional quality game, would he be then disqualified and sad?
Quote from: TwinMoon on Mon 07/04/2008 12:42:24
2. Two months is a long time. One month seems ideal to me.
What about supplying graphics? Insta-game and RON spring to mind. That way people can focus on their story and programming.
I remember at least one MAGS competition with a RON theme. I think maybe once a year there could be a MAGS with supplied graphics. If only we had more graphics packs for that purpose.
ok, obviously we've had enough negatives to point out that nobody agrees with the idea....
thats cool, i'll stop and put it behind me.
Quote from: Andorxor
I think that a month for a game is too short when you must learn AGS too in this time.I would make it a bi-monthly competion.
Quote from: BOYD1981
doesn't bi-monthly just mean twice a month?
Quote from: rock_chick
Not trying to be a smartarse here but you are spot on correct and silly of me not to notice it before
Quote from: Darth Mandarb
Actually no, bi-monthly means every other month (6 times a year).
Quote from: rock_chick
That's no different than what I said, 6 times a year would mean one every 2 months considering there's 12 months in a year.
etc...
May I step in and say that bi-monthly can mean both. The distinction is slightly better defined with years; we have
biennial which is every second year, and
semi-annual which is twice per year, but confusingly enough, semi-annual can also be synonymous to
biannual. When it comes to months, the term semi-monthly is most often used as twice per month, but there are lots of references to every other month as well, making it rather useless a word.
It seems best to avoid the terms altogether.
/offtopic
Since the person whose idea this originally was has given up on it, it might be good idea to simply lock this thread. No reason to rehash stuff that's already been said.