Forgive me if there's already a thread like this, but I've been thinking about puzzle design lately and wondering what kinds of puzzles to avoid.
What kinds of puzzles in adventure games do you think are overdone? I don't necessarily mean illogical puzzles - just the kind that pop up way too often.
Here's a few I'm tired of seeing:
- Feed an animal to make it your fwend for life. (It just doesn't work that way. I've fed lots of cats, and most of them never give me a second look.)
- Distract a guard to get past him. (So you're telling me the evil genius/warlord didn't have enough foresight to hire competent henchmen?)
- Use a key that you found lying in the middle of the floor two feet from the key's corresponding door. (I KNOWS HOW 2 MANAG INVINTOREY LOLOL!!11)
- Escape from a room. (This only really bothers me if it's the first puzzle. I want to do some exploring first!)
- Save the world. (If done right, this can be a good basis for a storyline. However, I'm tired to seeing fantasy and sci-fi games where you know two minutes into the game that the fate of the universe is at stake instead of learning this gradually after twists and turns.)
- Do something with a mouse/mousehole. (HONK-SHOE.)
Anything where you have to find a key to get into a room, to find the next key to get into the next room, to find another key, yada yada. This is more common in little puzzle games of the move-crates-and-get-to-exit type. I'd go so far as to say that the appearance of a Gold Key anywhere in the game had better have a damn good excuse.
I don't know if it's overdone really, but I dislike puzzles which hinge on a typically nice character doing something mean and destructive, which happened a lot in Grim Fandango -- Manny may be willing to shoot people, but he doesn't usually act like the kind of guy who would pour scalding coffee on a mildly offensive bystander or force his best friend to vomit. It would be fine in a game where the main character is just nasty in general, though.
I think that recipes in nearly any form -- especially gathering ingredients for a magic potion -- are pretty tired in the genre.
And of course, crate stacking is a trope that just has to die.
Every time I finish an adventure game that doesn't have a maze/labyrinth in it I crack a beer and toast the designer.
Getting a key from the other side of a locked door by using a small stick and a piece of paper. Way too obvious.
I don't know where does that trick originally come from, but its mere existance in a game makes me respect the designers a lot less.
Oh come on, mazes aren't very common in adventure games anymore! They're ripe for abuse....er, use again!
The only puzzles that really bother me are the ones that clearly are in place to pad the game rather than provide something fun/different/interesting to do. That and the 'get this for this person to get that for someone else' type puzzles.
Quote from: Laukku on Mon 26/01/2009 08:09:56Getting a key from the other side of a locked door by using a small stick and a piece of paper. Way too obvious.
It seems that this is still considered quite clever outside of adventure gaming circles. I just saw it used in Neil Gaiman's recent novel 'The Graveyard Book' and groaned my way through the page or two of meticulous performance of the task.
I always wanted to make a locked door puzzle where the newspaper-pencil trick seemed the obvious solution but (of course) didn't work due to real-life obstacles such as, well, door sills. I mean, how big does the gap under a door have to be not only to fit an old-fashioned key but sometimes also a bloody newspaper like in 'Post Mortem'?
Get item...use item...talk to character...pass arbitrary barrier...get item...use item...talk to character...pass arbitrary barrier...end boss...get item...use item within time limit...watch cutscene...end.
With a decent plot and backstory, and well developed characters, this isn't always a bad formula.
But with bad storytelling, this becomes a nightmare.
Great storytelling + Bad puzzle design = Good Game
Great storytelling + Great puzzle design = OMG HOLY GRAIL UNPOSSIBLE
I agree, there isn't a "bad puzzle" as such (safe the hush puppy puzzle in Simon 2), because if you wrap it up with a good explanation, you can get away with so many cliches!
What I hate, though, is the "use and dispose" approach. You go through a lot of trouble to get a certain item, then use it once and know that you will not need to glance at it a second time- because it did its job and is now dead weight.
Sam&Max did a good job here by making you use the extendable hand several time (with a magnet/cup/glove attached), and DOTT at least had some "fun items" (like the ink) you could use on all characters for a snapy response.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Mon 26/01/2009 09:18:20
Quote from: Laukku on Mon 26/01/2009 08:09:56Getting a key from the other side of a locked door by using a small stick and a piece of paper. Way too obvious.
It seems that this is still considered quite clever outside of adventure gaming circles. I just saw it used in Neil Gaiman's recent novel 'The Graveyard Book' and groaned my way through the page or two of meticulous performance of the task.
I always wanted to make a locked door puzzle where the newspaper-pencil trick seemed the obvious solution but (of course) didn't work due to real-life obstacles such as, well, door sills. I mean, how big does the gap under a door have to be not only to fit an old-fashioned key but sometimes also a bloody newspaper like in 'Post Mortem'?
You obviously have neglected to watch the Ben Jordan Film, where this puzzle is recreated, in all its glory.
Indeed. And if you think about it a little more, you'll realise what BJ does in that movie is completely impossible & unprobable...any ideas why? :=
I'd say the "you need one thing off someone so they make you do 3 things for them" puzzle is very cliche. But I can hardly complain. I've just written one into my game :P
The paper-under-door-to-get-key-puzzle is way older than adventure games. I remember reading it in a children's detective book that was written in the fifties.
I think any puzzle can work excellently if presented in a good context and for a logical reason. Any puzzle can be awful if it's just random and illogical.
Some typical puzzles (or puzzle-types, really) I don't like:
* Pixelhunting. It encourages the player to click everywhere on the screen not to miss something, and it ruins the gameplay.
* Repetative clicking. Ok, so if I click on the character a fourth time, he'll tell me the secret.
* Extremely realistic/technical puzzles. Like "use knife to remove isolation from cable, use pliers to twist cables around eachother, combine batteries with screwdriver, etc etc". Heck, if I want to mend a radio, I can do that in real life.
* Surprise-effects-puzzles. This is quite common even in professional games. Items have hidden qualities that don't make sense, and to discover the effect you must try everything on everything, and that also ruins the gameplay. For some reason, Space Quest comes to mind, even though I can't point out a specific puzzles right now.
You know, I don't think I've ever encountered the paper-under-door puzzle in an adventure game. They didn't seem to be in any of the famous ones that could possibly have it (Gabriel Knights, Indiana Jones, etc).
I do remember reading it in some Enid Blyton book as a kid, though (Famous Five?). Heh.
About clichéd puzzles....I dunno. Once I get the mechanism of the puzzles in a game, I'm pretty much put off that aspect of the game. I mean, you realise that you are getting this item to give to this person, who will give you this item to give to this person who will give you this item to use with this other item to get past a superficial and pointless obstacle.
Quote from: Babar on Mon 26/01/2009 13:37:06
You know, I don't think I've ever encountered the paper-under-door puzzle in an adventure game. They didn't seem to be in any of the famous ones that could possibly have it (Gabriel Knights, Indiana Jones, etc).
It's at least in
Broken Sword 3 and in
Mystery of The Mummy. The former is reasonably famous.
Quote from: Andail
The paper-under-door-to-get-key-puzzle is way older than adventure games.
Yes, I knew that. And that's the main reason I consider it to be cliché.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Mon 26/01/2009 09:18:20
Quote from: Laukku on Mon 26/01/2009 08:09:56Getting a key from the other side of a locked door by using a small stick and a piece of paper. Way too obvious.
It seems that this is still considered quite clever outside of adventure gaming circles. I just saw it used in Neil Gaiman's recent novel 'The Graveyard Book' and groaned my way through the page or two of meticulous performance of the task.
Does anyone watch The Mentalist? Just a few weeks ago, the mystery of the week involved a girl dead in a room with a guy that had been locked from the inside. The guy inside claimed to be innocent, but since the room was locked from the inside he was thrown in jail. Well, luckily for him, the "brilliant" mentalist came and noticed that there was significant room under the door to pull the old newspaper under the door trick with the added twist of putting a string back through the lock, tying it to the key, and pulling the key back into the lock from the other side. "OMG!" the police all shouted, "He might be innocent afterall!" ::)
Quote from: ProgZmax on Mon 26/01/2009 08:38:29
Oh come on, mazes aren't very common in adventure games anymore! They're ripe for abuse....er, use again!
I agree. I think the hate directed towards mazes in adventure games have been due to repeated misuse. Poor implementation and a lack of proper integration into the story have given them a bad rap. I took the general hate directed at mazes as a challenge, and have included one in Resonance to demonstrate how I think they should be done. And if that strikes fear into your heart, then I urge you to wait and see it, because you haven't seen a maze done like this in an adventure game before!
From my own attempts at design, these are a few of the clichés I found myself writing in, to quickly dispose of.
-Replacing a fuse with a paperclip
-Fixing some kind of machinery in a dull, spare parts, sort of way. I don't think there's anything wrong with this per se, but every time I wrote it down I was just copying the spark-plug puzzle from FOA, so it was ripped from the design document.
Also, any puzzle which requires you to do something particularly long-winded for a fairly common item. Like completing a very long quest for a box of matches or something, when in real life, you'd sooner just go out and buy some. So"Unnecessary constraints on items" is my gripe, or being arbitrarily limited to a set of items (unless the player is in an enclosed space/unable to travel to look for other items).
Key on door...definetely cliched.
(If any of you didn't happen to catch the thread, a strongly related topic has come up before on the forum, which became >this post (http://www.americangirlscouts.org/agswiki/Bill_of_Adventure_Gamers'_Rights)< in the AGS Wiki.)
There's one thing I just remembered has been annoying me to no end, something that seems to be used in damn near every horror game (most of the examples I'm thinking of are Flash games or shooters, but I think the same rule applies in adventure games) -- the %^&*% INSANE PERSON'S JOURNAL ENTRIES.
Usually they're pages scattered all over the game, yet curiously in chronological order. They all tell the EXACT SAME STORY: Part One, "Oh, I love my new house/job/asylum cell, but that one person I love dearly is acting strange..."; Part Two, "Strange noises and events continue, poor Bill was killed with the passcode in his pocket, I'm worried about Loved One, I hear screams in the night"; Part Three, "I pray only that someone will find this record and end this terrible evil, it's coming to get me now argh argh argh".
The worst part is that the damn things never advance the story, because the Disturbed Journalist is always too busy being ominous and vague to actually write any details worth knowing. But you usually have to read them anyway, because sometimes -- SOMETIMES -- there will be vital puzzle information in them.
Well, at least, the writer thinks that putting clues in the journal entries means you'll have to read them, put that isn't exactly true -- in fact, all you have to do is scan the pages for numbers, pictures, and lists of capitalized (or bold, or otherwise distinct) text, because the text itself has never been used to convey any more information than character names. What's scary is that I don't know of ANY exceptions to the rule of "scan for numbers, pictures and lists".
Anyway. Done venting. But I can't believe I didn't think of this last night, it annoys me so much. ::)
PS regarding good writing salvaging a bad puzzle: Similar issues come up in any artistic field -- it's always true that a stylish, original, or just plain clean and honest approach can salvage something that's become hackneyed. But lists like this are still a very useful tool, not as "Things that Must Never Be Done", but as warning signs -- if you spot an old overused trope in your work, it's a warning to pause and ask whether you ARE doing something fresher, better, or even deliberately sarcastic with it, or just putting it there because "that's what goes in this sort of scene".
PPS regarding the key-n-paper trick: maybe I'm just being provincial, but has anyone even built a door with this kind of lock in the last thirty years? The only place I've ever even seen a keyhole you could look through was on the basement door of a very old house -- all the other locks in the house had been replaced with modern ones, which you just can't poke a key out of.
Admittedly, a lot of games are set in very old houses, often set back when the houses were new. But even then...who locks a door and leaves the key in it?
Quote from: Jack Hare on Mon 26/01/2009 21:10:02
But even then...who locks a door and leaves the key in it?
The same person that leaves the most powerful weapons and lots of ammo in a small room directly in front of the evil mastermind's secret hideout.
The same person that puts a sign next to the evil mastermind's secret hideout, saying in big flashing letters: "Teh Evulz Mastamidns Secrit Hidout!"
The same person that outfits feeble minions with incredibly powerful artifacts and weapons that they drop when dying, yet are unable to use to defend themselves.
The same person that litters the wilderness with treasure chests, all of which can be opened with a simple, cheap skeleton key.
The same person that somehow arranges it so that all members of your party have this ONE special ability that makes them indisposable for the game to finish...
In other words, GAME DESIGNERS.
And you can't trust these, they still believe that you can heal wounds by STEPPING on a medikit.
Quote from: Ghost on Mon 26/01/2009 21:23:57
Quote from: Jack Hare on Mon 26/01/2009 21:10:02
But even then...who locks a door and leaves the key in it?
The same person that leaves the most powerful weapons and lots of ammo in a small room directly in front of the evil mastermind's secret hideout.
The same person that puts a sign next to the evil mastermind's secret hideout, saying in big flashing letters: "Teh Evulz Mastamidns Secrit Hidout!"
The same person that outfits feeble minions with incredibly powerful artifacts and weapons that they drop when dying, yet are unable to use to defend themselves.
The same person that litters the wilderness with treasure chests, all of which can be opened with a simple, cheap skeleton key.
The same person that somehow arranges it so that all members of your party have this ONE special ability that makes them indisposable for the game to finish...
In other words, GAME DESIGNERS.
And you can't trust these, they still believe that you can heal wounds by STEPPING on a medikit.
You're a poet.
Ugh. I'm with you on the journal entries, Jack Hare. The worst thing about them is that they rarely read like normal journals; even if I was being haunted by some scary something-or-other, that wouldn't be the ONLY thing I'd write about, at least in the beginning. :P And yes, most of them tend to tell the same story.
Simon the Sorcerer had a poke-key-through-lock puzzle as well, but in that case I think it was well-placed.
Ah come on! I already put a mouse hole in my game... >:(
But its ok. It isn't a mouse that its inside it and isn't a key or a iten...
and no, it have something, and its live! *evil grim smile that should have on smile bar*
Quote from: Ghost on Mon 26/01/2009 21:23:57
Quote from: Jack Hare on Mon 26/01/2009 21:10:02
But even then...who locks a door and leaves the key in it?
The same person that leaves the most powerful weapons and lots of ammo in a small room directly in front of the evil mastermind's secret hideout.
The same person that puts a sign next to the evil mastermind's secret hideout, saying in big flashing letters: "Teh Evulz Mastamidns Secrit Hidout!"
The same person that outfits feeble minions with incredibly powerful artifacts and weapons that they drop when dying, yet are unable to use to defend themselves.
The same person that litters the wilderness with treasure chests, all of which can be opened with a simple, cheap skeleton key.
Hey, those kind of remind me of the Evil Overlord List (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)! ;D
Quote from: Trihan on Tue 27/01/2009 00:04:59
Simon the Sorcerer had a poke-key-through-lock puzzle as well, but in that case I think it was well-placed.
Shhhh!
I'm playing that now, and so far gone unspoiled. :)
Apart form keys, screwdrivers and crowbars are the most clischee items.
In 'Ben there, dan that' i found it really funny, that they just spoiled those extrem clische puzzles by saying something like:
"I can't remove it with my bare hands"
"What do you need?"
"A crowbar"
QuoteExtremely realistic/technical puzzles. Like "use knife to remove isolation from cable, use pliers to twist cables around eachother, combine batteries with screwdriver, etc etc". Heck, if I want to mend a radio, I can do that in real life.
I'll disagree with Andail on this. I actually quite enjoy puzzles that involve constructing or repairing something from a variety of parts in a logical manner as long as the payoff is worth it. In Boyd Quest I added an optional sequence where you can troubleshoot and repair an arcade game with the help of a manual, some tools, and the machine's dip switches/test functions. The payoff is you get to play the game if you fix it ^_^.
I just find the puzzles where ordinary tools are employed just as they're designed in real life a bit boring.
After all, establishing a completely mundane and realistic game "universe", filled with real-life emulating puzzles, often results in very strange challenges. As a poster said above, if everything is so realistic, why doesn't he just buy the necessary items in a shop?
Of course, one could have a setting that doesn't feature normal cities with normal economies, and many games do take place on deserted islands or locked basements.
But still..."use screwdriver on screw"...I dunno, it's not my idea of having fun.
Oh damn! I got a screwdriver in my game too! But its not to use with a screw! *evil grim that should have on the smile bar*
One way to solve the crowbar/screwdriver problem (which I remember from somebody's article) is to replace items like crowbars and screwdrivers with other items that can accomplish the same task, yet serve a different purpose.
For example, in Grim Fandango (PUZZLE SOLUTION ALERT!), Manny has to swing over a pit by assembling a grappling hook. Instead of finding a normal "grappling hook" inventory item and tying it to the rope, you find a statue of a small potted plant. The potted plant has the same hook and shape, but you don't expect to use it on the rope because it already serves a different function. So, you tie it to the rope and swing across anyway. Cliche-inventory item removed-->Puzzle innovated-->Problem solved.
yeah, i done this on my game, and some point on my game (no, it will not make you frustrade) is when the player think the puzzle is solved, he figure out it isnt too simple...
Quote from: TheJBurger on Tue 27/01/2009 23:58:19
One way to solve the crowbar/screwdriver problem (which I remember from somebody's article) is to replace items like crowbars and screwdrivers with other items that can accomplish the same task, yet serve a different purpose.
Do you happen to remember the name of that article? I'd love to read it.
Quote from: MoodyBlues on Wed 28/01/2009 12:52:52
Quote from: TheJBurger on Tue 27/01/2009 23:58:19
One way to solve the crowbar/screwdriver problem (which I remember from somebody's article) is to replace items like crowbars and screwdrivers with other items that can accomplish the same task, yet serve a different purpose.
Do you happen to remember the name of that article? I'd love to read it.
Sorry, I can't find it right now. I can't remember if somebody said it here on the AGS forums, or if it was an interview with Tim Schafer. Either way, this article by Yahtzee (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,522) nearly says the same thing.
Quote from: TheJBurger on Tue 27/01/2009 23:58:19
One way to solve the crowbar/screwdriver problem (which I remember from somebody's article) is to replace items like crowbars and screwdrivers with other items that can accomplish the same task, yet serve a different purpose.
Or the other way: Using those items in a different way, like the screwdriver in Sam & Max.
QuoteBut still..."use screwdriver on screw"...I dunno, it's not my idea of having fun.
This doesn't really bother me to be honest. I like it when there are straightforward, logical solutions to break up the more esoteric puzzles in a game. Let's face it, most puzzles in games border on ludicrous or stretch the limits of believability, so I think it's nice when you do something that's entirely logical AND IT WORKS. What bothers me is when you have a shitload of inventory items that will solve a particular puzzle logically but only one ridiculous solution works. A perfect example of this is going back to the crowbar thing. I've played so many games where you'll have 2-3 items in your inventory that could be used to pry something open (a hammer, a metal pipe, a common screwdriver), but then you need to specifically find a crowbar to do it. That to me is more cliche and lazy than simply making an item that has a logical use. It also stands as a warning for people who like to make games with massive inventories, because the more items you have the more careful you need to be that they won't have practical uses elsewhere.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 29/01/2009 13:19:16
I like it when there are straightforward, logical solutions to break up the more esoteric puzzles in a game.
If we're allowed to get technical, we could discuss how using more obvious puzzles in between the "think outside the box ones" creates more 'dynamic' gameplay - rather than having the player doing the same thing all the time (ie, screwing screws with his screwdriver all game long or using the broken spectacles with the bright light to set the goat cheese candles alight, setting off the midget doorman's allergies causing him to drop the springy hat, then going onto other convoluted combinations for the rest of the game) you could strategically place more logical puzzles in certain positions to give the player a nice change of pace or advance the story, which would be taking a note from movies where you get fast story progression and slow story progression to make things more interesting.
Which is basically what ProgZ said in about 120 more words :P.
I personally like the old ones, like pushing the key out of the lock onto the paper.
I think they've gone beyond cliché into kitsch; you know exactly what to do and what will happen, but it's still fun.
Like when a joke is so bad that it's good.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 29/01/2009 13:19:16
What bothers me is when you have a shitload of inventory items that will solve a particular puzzle logically but only one ridiculous solution works. A perfect example of this is going back to the crowbar thing. I've played so many games where you'll have 2-3 items in your inventory that could be used to pry something open (a hammer, a metal pipe, a common screwdriver), but then you need to specifically find a crowbar to do it.
This. Very much this.
And it happens all the damn time.
What makes it worse when there's no clear indication which one you're supposed to use.
Ever played Phoenix Wright?
There are several moments in that game where you've got half a dozen items of evidence, all of which point to the same conclusion in their own way, but you have to guess which one you need to use because apparantly none of the others will work.
I think it works in Phoenix Wright because there's no backtracking or wondering if you actually -have- the item that will get you further. You have everything you need, the trick is to work out what's needed and when.
Quote from: Ultra Magnus on Thu 29/01/2009 18:06:54
Ever played Phoenix Wright?
There are several moments in that game where you've got half a dozen items of evidence, all of which point to the same conclusion in their own way, but you have to guess which one you need to use because apparantly none of the others will work.
Well, you have to use the piece of evidence that contradicts the current statement of the witness, so it's not quite so bad. But I do agree that there are some points where multiple pieces of evidence should arguably work. I was more annoyed by the times when I felt I was ready to contradict a piece of testimony, but the game wouldn't recognize what I was trying to do because I had to do something else first. If a witness
says something and I
have evidence that clearly disproves it, I should be able to raise an
Objection! (Or Phoenix should at least say something like "The time isn't right yet" and let me continue without a penalty.)
One of my personal dislikes is having the same puzzle structure repeated too many times. For instance, in
Ben There, Dan That, you had to open probably 8 or so different doors by finding the right shape to stick in the lock. Two or three times is fine (e.g. The Three Trials), but much more than that and the whole project starts to feel monotonous.
I thought of a few more:
- Riddles. I actually kind of like them because they vary the gameplay, but they'd better be original and not something you lifted out of Highlights for Children.
- Plot tokens. "Get the Four Mystic Orbs of Power to defeat the Evil One!" I'm guilty of doing this, but I'm doing my best to integrate the plot tokens into the story and world rather than just declaring, "GET YE ORBS TO WIN."
- Light source puzzles. These aren't so bad as long as they're not too obvious. "Gee! I found a lantern lying in the middle of nowhere! I better pick it up in case there's a cave around!" What if you can't find a lantern/candle/torch? Now that's a decent puzzle.
- Random, nonsensical gifts. I always cringe when I hear a character say, "Here, take this [blank]. I don't know what you could use it for, but it may come in handy." You just admitted it's useless, so why are you giving me this garbage? Did you read the walkthrough and realize I'd need a hairpin/rotten egg/dead fly?
QuoteWhat bothers me is when you have a shitload of inventory items that will solve a particular puzzle logically but only one ridiculous solution works. A perfect example of this is going back to the crowbar thing. I've played so many games where you'll have 2-3 items in your inventory that could be used to pry something open (a hammer, a metal pipe, a common screwdriver), but then you need to specifically find a crowbar to do it.
That's why i prefer Adventure/RPG games, i am tired of picking up every single junk i find in a game knowing that if i try to get in character and don't pick it up that i am going to have to go way back to do so. I don't like it when every item is destined for one solution only and that they all need to be used. I remember the example here of Atlantis, a game around 1998 where an orb was NOT used in the game and the whole gaming community was upset searching for months what was it's purpose but there was none, and i liked that. I don't like to know that there is only ONE solution for every problem and i need to get in the designers head to figure it out no matter how absurd it sounds. In a game i've been working on you can carry as many items on your inventory as your back can lift and there are many items that you will probably never need to use so the challenge here is to find what item is that you really need for the job and go get it. Think logically where you would find one or simply go and buy it, but even then i prefer the designer to have thought of other solutions as well. If you believe for example that the hammer will do the same work as the crowbar the designer would have better made the both work...
In response to beomoud, I agree with what your saying. But instead of the bottomless inventory (which will quite quickly get cluttered unless you allow the player to drop things), I prefer the implementation in Dreamweb where pretty much anything can be picked up - from ashtrays to guitar plectrums and old microwave dinners. BUT you have limited room in your inventory, so you must actually consider whether the items will be of any use to you before dragging them along.
This of course means that all puzzles must employ real world logic - a screwdriver is a reasonable useful item whereas a green pea is not. Despite the huge amounts of potential inventory items, I personally never found myself missing anything that was necessary to proceed in the game (though there is a pretty huge walking dead situation if you forget to pick up a certain item at the very beginning, its location is strongly hinted at in the game's intro).
I also agree with previous posters on the case of multiple items that would do the same job, but only one works - that's just lazy design. Allowing multiple items to be used for the same task (as well as multiple solution puzzles) was actually one of the strong points of Zak McKracken, which remains the only LucasArts title among my favorite adventure games. Though I must admit that Ben There, Dan That did make me laugh with its rationalization for why you couldn't melt the lamp post with the lava :).
If there's anything we can conclude from this discussion it must be this: Every non-alien, non-desert island adventure game should have at least one street corner with a dollar store. It would make things so much easier for us players.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 03/02/2009 07:02:25
If there's anything we can conclude from this discussion it must be this: Every non-alien, non-desert island adventure game should have at least one street corner with a dollar store. It would make things so much easier for us players.
Ok, but to get a dollar, you have to deliver this letter to the baker across town, then take the cake he gives you to the flower store. The girl there will give you a bouquet, which you can use to make the museum security guard sneeze so that you can steal the painting, which I'll buy for a dollar. Then you can use the dollar to buy a screwdriver.
LOL, Vince. I forgot to add that there should also be a shoplifting mini game ;D
Oh... kleptomania... how cliché!
Quote from: Vince Twelve on Tue 03/02/2009 14:28:05
Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 03/02/2009 07:02:25
If there's anything we can conclude from this discussion it must be this: Every non-alien, non-desert island adventure game should have at least one street corner with a dollar store. It would make things so much easier for us players.
Ok, but to get a dollar, you have to deliver this letter to the baker across town, then take the cake he gives you to the flower store. The girl there will give you a bouquet, which you can use to make the museum security guard sneeze so that you can steal the painting, which I'll buy for a dollar. Then you can use the dollar to buy a screwdriver.
See, getting all your inventory items from a dollar store makes sense! That way, when they break after their first use it's because you got it from a dollar store!
I do believe on the rewards-per-click ratio.
Having common puzzles, cliche puzzles and very easy puzzles once in a while is the best way to make your player feel that the game is logical, trustable and realistic. It's also a good alternative for extra-long cutscenes who end up to be as cliche as the above puzzles.
USE blue cardkey ON blue door.
- This is not a real puzzle anyway, it's just a cool way to make the player understand that his faith is above the blue door and make him/her feel intelligent.
you got a chainsaw. You must break a door. you can`t use the chainsaw. because you must use a hammer. why? because the chainsaw you will use later. why cant i use the hammer later and the chainsaw now?
Quote from: jakerpot on Sat 07/02/2009 18:58:31
you got a chainsaw. You must break a door. you can`t use the chainsaw. because you must use a hammer. why? because the chainsaw you will use later. why cant i use the hammer later and the chainsaw now?
Now, I think this is fair if the game says, "You could use the chainsaw, but [insert valid reason here]. Maybe you should try [insert hint here]." Otherwise, I agree that game designers should consider all the possible uses a player might have for certain items.
Zork 2 had the mat under the door to get the key puzzle.
Because the chainsaw has no fuel, obviously!
...You find some in the sequel, though.
no, you have fuel! Is not like in maniac mansion, but ok, like, if you are in a hospital, this would make much noise, the hammer too, soo you have to find another way to open the damn door, a key wouldn`t do it, because the key and all the copies where thrown on acid. Maybe you could remove the screws and bring down the door?
Quote from: Makeout Patrol on Mon 26/01/2009 07:52:36
Every time I finish an adventure game that doesn't have a maze/labyrinth in it I crack a beer and toast the designer.
Have you tried the "lava maze" puzzle in a Tex Murphy adventure, 'The Pandora Directive'?
This time, though, it's in a Mayan room of lava running through the maze with some swinging things above your head.
Spoiler
You're supposed to crawl on a level of maze from one side of the room to another side. Make a misstep or get knocked by one of those swinging things, you fall into a lava bank. When you do, you see a rising gravestone while Tex sarcastically informs you that he's died.
After you completed this maze puzzle, you get to do ANOTHER MAZE! A GARDEN MAZE! WHOO HOO! I think when I saw the second maze, I almost wept.
God, I made so many missteps in the lava room that my hatred for mazes (and Tex's sarcastic tone) still burns today.