Combat encounters as a choose your own adventure book style branching path.

[dharmadischarge]

I am working on something and I  want some input from the community. So I can have a better perspective on the appeal of the idea or lack of it.

Combat encounters more as a puzzle than stat grinding. the idea came to me playing Earthbound where when you beat a tree monster it falls and damages your party. I love interactive fiction and adventure-style stories tend to have conflict be it Indiana Jones or Hunter x Hunter.

So if your character has a stat like hp and that is the only resource and there are no variables just choices that raise or lower it. it makes combat more of a narrative thing. it becomes a part of the story. I think maybe adding a checkpoint system to combat encounters allows it to remain a puzzle. and every encounter should either be avoidable or have a solution that allows the player to not take damage.

The question becomes why have combat if there is no fail state (in the long view sense it will checkpoint at the start of hostile encounters)... I think it has to do with why the combat is there. I don't think they should be random but meticulously planned events. no different than the other puzzles except the hp resource whose main function is resource management to discourage not being creative in the encounters.

How would you implement conflict resolution in narrative games where diplomacy fails?

I am kind of new to adventure games. tim schafers work is some of my favorite entertainment in this world. but other than Neverhood and some indie games I have not played many of the classics but am starting to look for some to play.

as a side note any experimental adventure games or ones with combat systems you could recommend? I would be grateful. I have begun to be obsessed with the genre. and trying to get a feel for what can be done with it.

thank you for reading this and I hope you have a good day.

 

[heltenjon]

Most classic adventures don't use stats, but rely on finding the correct technique or weapon/item to use in order to beat a foe and advance in the game. If I read what you're saying correctly, you want to have RPG-like stats like a health bar?

In RPGs the clue is usually to find what tactic/spell/weapon works best against which type of enemy and use that whenever you encounter one. There's no rule against doing that in an adventure game, but it's hardly a puzzle then, more of a grind. Werewolf? Silver Sword. Vampire? Ultraviolet ray gun.

In something like Monkey Island you have insult swordfighting. The player trains against a master until having learned the correct responses and then can use these against others. This type of mechanic could be used in a game like you describe.

I guess that the point would be that there should be one or more good tactics against each foe, and that the player must learn them, through trial and error or (preferrably) through exploration somewhere else in the game. Fighting enemies with "wrong" tactics could still be possible, but cause more damage to the hero's health bar. That way you could win without finding all the good tactics.

Another option would be that the player loses a fight and uses that to do better next time. Say if a foe strikes you upon your head repeatedly. Next time, wear head gear for protection. And so on.

[dharmadischarge]

I think the monkey island (I have not played those yet but am going to) sounds closer to what I am thinking.

The only stat would be Hp but I may not do that even. I don't want stats in the game but want consequences I have thought about not failing state like Lucas arts games but then having the enemy mock you for beating you once. or maybe have an event in some situations where they capture you and put you in a dungeon though that could get tedious if it happens often. and not experience points the only progression being narative.

I think I will try to write a short example using the earthbound tree enemy. So it is a sentient tree that has a face and can talk but can not walk because it is a tree. having multiple solutions to a situation would be key. so it wont become tedious. The tree has been given the key to the castle to guard because it is so strong. there is a torch in another room we can interact with so we think we can set the tree on fire. if we do this the room will be darker and harder to see from now on. but we have a axe so if we cut down the tree there will be a struggle and we will lose some hp and if our hp holds out we chop off its hands and then cut it down. I don't know if it's possible but you could make it where you have to walk away when the tree is swaying so it doesnt fall on you.

So what I am thinking is no random encounters. but branching path events. with the only trackable stat being hp. which may cause you get knocked out when your hp reaches zero but it is not game over. whenever you continue you have a third of your health which limits the blunt force options like swashbuckling. because depending on the strength of the enemy there is a chance your character could get messed up. so combat would work like the frog for whom the bell tolls. where there is a rock-paper item system changes creating a rock-paper scissors combat prowess. but every enemy encounter has a solution that doesn't involve using that mechanic.

one benefit of a system like this is the player's stats are defined by equipment and there is no RPG progression beyond that Metroidvania-like equipment system. it makes combat simply one more part of the narrative vocabulary. making an adventure game where you can tell different kinds of stories and even if you want to blunt force push through an encounter the mechanics encourage you to be a trickster of sorts and sense the diminishing resources that is your HP won't last forever you will have to adapt to it and think outside of the box.

[eri0o]

If you don't die and instead are just knocked out to a point of return, one system that I have been trying to play with is items that you don't know for sure what they are. Say you get an "herb", it can maybe heal, but say you eat and get knocked out next time you look at that herb it can instead read "poison herb" and the like. Essentially having some knowledge you get appear in the gameplay.

[dharmadischarge]

If you don't die and instead are just knocked out to a point of return, one system that I have been trying to play with is items that you don't know for sure what they are. Say you get an "herb", it can maybe heal, but say you eat and get knocked out next time you look at that herb it can instead read "poison herb" and the like. Essentially having some knowledge you get to appear in the gameplay.

that is a neat idea.

you could do some Alice in Wonderland kind of stuff with that. like magic mushrooms but with question marks over the icons when you hover over them. so you have to interact with them to know what they do like you said.

or you could also have a world only accessible through psychedelics like Tim Schaefer's original idea for full throttle.

 I not much of a programmer but I don't think any of this would be hard to implement from a code perspective.

I think the most untapped thing about adventure games is how with just some simple system put on the framework they become more of a game in the mechanical sense without losing their great stories.

[Babar]

It sounds like you would like your combat encounter to be like a dialogue puzzle with only a specific path allowing for victory. And yeah, sure, it could work!