I just saw your game advertised on the CNN website. :) Great going man!
to clarify:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/fun.games/12/13/shivah.rabbi.reut/index.html
thanks to ildu for the link.
Hey, I just posted that not more than a minute ago on IRC :O.
Still, very many congrats, Dave :).
See also: http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&ned=uk&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1111949080&filter=0
Wow, way to go Dave!!! It's good to see we are making an impact.... Go Dave!!! Go AGS!!!
If I wasn't so tired trying to get Blackwell done on time, i'd jump for joy!
The main thanks goes to Manifesto, who offered to distribute the game on their site and have laid the PR smackdown on it. They are going to do an interview webcam thing with me on Monday, so I'll let you know what the deal is with that.
T'was also mentioned in a Finnish tabloid, in the funny little news section. Nice going and I'm not being sarcastic.
Congratulations Mr. Dave Gilbert. Keep up the great work. That is friggin CNN, yeah baby, CNN!!
:)
edit: i could care less about CNN, and that is why i made that funny reference to CNN (sarcasm baby, yeah sarcasm)
Not as inspiring as CNN, but just thought I'd toss up another sighting:
1up.com (http://www.1up.com/do/media?cId=3155927)
Massive respect, man!
Just wanted to tell everybody, that Dave would be a zero without me. ;D ;D ;D
Now without the BS jokes: Congratulations Man! You deserve it! Brilliant news! YAY!
I've been living under my little Blackwell rock and haven't shown proper appreciation for this thread. Thanks for the kudos, everybody.
Hey Dave, congratulations, you and your game appeared on the back page of Israeli daily newspaper Maariv. And the full story will be on sunday in the computer section of the paper. I have translated it for you: (could include spoilers for those who didn't play the game)
Quote from: Gilad Shenhav, Maariv 122006. Translated by Nostradamus
THE COMPUTER'S GAME HERO: A FIGHTING RABBI
Computer games hereos are usually secret agents or beautyful women who control firearms. But a new game that have took over the USA puts in the role of the hero a New York jewish community's Rabbi.
The game named "The Shivah" and its hero is the Rabbi Russell Stone, the head of a small synagogue in New York that is suffering from people leaving it and financial hardships. Just when the Rabbi thinks about leaving, a former friend in the community passes away and decides to leave the Rabbi and his followers a hefty sum of money. The problem is that Rabbi stone doesn't know the source of the money, and so decides to go around Manhattan to investigate it. Then, as computer games go, Rabbi Stone gets into a murder story and of course fights his enemies. "I had an idea to create a game about a priest that loses his faith", told game creator Dave Gilbert to a Jewish internet site, "the problem is I know nothing baout priests. I', jewish, so I made a game about a Rabbi instead". The Game "The Shivah" cna be purchased for only $5 in the internet.
The full story in the magazine on Sunday.
There was also a screenshot.
So again congratulations for your games getting this kind of publicity. Makes me proud to see you appear in our newspapers here.
And here's a link for another article on the paper's online edition, a different article, differnet writer, which I'll also translate below.
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART1/517/565.html
Quote from: Dora Kishinevski and Reuters, NRG (Maariv On-Line). Translated by Nostradamus
MURDER IN THE SYNAGOGUE
Forget the action, the efffects and the naked shikshes in the goyim's games. A new exceptional adventure game, that carrise the exotic title "The Shivah", will allow you to enter the kosher shoes of a Rabbi in Lower East Side New York who's trying to solve the mystery of the murder of a member of his community.
The modest game, which uses nostalgic graphics and a point and click GUI which reminds of classic 90's adventure games, features a Film-Noir plot with a Yiddish colour. Rabbi Russel Stone (!) heads a declining community and faces the possibility that his synagogue might be closed due to cash shortage. Meanwhile he battles thoughts of blasphemy. When the synagogue gets a surprising inheritance from a exceptionallly rich decist, the Rabbi recruits the remnants of his faith to go to comforting the decist's pained family and finds himself investigating the suspicious causes of death of the Kind jew.
Manifesto Games company which sells the game is proud of its honor to the tradition - and not only Israelite tradition. With the 90's GUI the game also include a plot homage to the famous insult battle of Monkey Island, as the battle are based on a unique Rabbi debate or in other words: to answer every question with another question. But except that comic wink, the game proclaims to seriously discuss questions of morality and faith.
You can try a demo version in the author Dave Gilbert's website or download a full version for $5. Included in the price: a dictionary for Yiddish terms.
Ironically, Maariv seem to have spelt the title wrong... next to the screenshots ::)
Neato! Thanks, Nostodamus! ALthough one question - do you mean there's going to be a full story thus coming Sunday, or you translated an article that appeared last sunday?
A shame I don't remember a single word of my two university semesters of hebrew or I could read it myself. :-D
No, there's gonna be a full story on this sunday, there's a weekly PC section on sundays and there's gonna a big story\review about it. Don't worry I'll translate it for you too.
I think you can buy Maariv in America if you look for it, especially in NY, so you could get it a few days later and save it as a memento.
Jewish protagonist in a heavy on Judaism-story game, and you get mad propz from the Jewish community?
I'm all verklempt now, but in a good way ;)
Well done Dave :D Great news! Literally! You are like a true New York hero! And the best part is, we'll be cnnyou soon! Ok, that was poor. But your dedication to game making is something else! Looking forward to teh Legacy!
Here's the big article from yesterday's paper. I have no scanner but I'm gonna try to post a digital camera picture of it later.
Article contains spoilers.
Quote from: Gilad Shenhav, Maariv. Translated by: Nostradamus
LAST ACTION HERO: RABBI RUSSELL STONE
[10 screenshots]
Lara Croft - out. The Rabbi - in. A Jewish programmer created a computer game starring a charismatic Rabbi who's trying to save his life achivement. In The United States they loved the concept and marketed it commercially, but Rabbis in Israel are not fond of it
Action game heroes are usually young, strong, weapon expoerts and look great. However the Rabbinite world heroes have a long beard, convincing rhetorics and great knowledge of the bible. A new game that have been released lately in the USA is trying to break that pattern and make the Rabbi an action hero.
In the game called "The Shivah" after the jewish mourning tradition, is starring Rabbi Russell Stone, who's the head of a small synagogue in one of the jewish neighbourhoods in New York. Rabbi Stone is in crisis, his community members have stopped arriving at the synagogue an d the estbalishment he's head of is in a serious financial crisis.
Until here it sounds like a sad tale, which at best can end in another lesson from the jewish world - but thats exactly the point where things change. When another lecture in the empty synagogue ends a cop arrives at Rabbi Stone's and tells him that one of his followers has been murdered abd has left an inheritance of $10,000 to him. Stone, who needs the money to save his life achivement, goes out to investigate the source of the money. In opposte of what you would expect from a Rabbi, he gets involved in the murder story and tryes to collect evidence. To finish the game, the Rabbi must overcome an evil competitor, who acts in a big synagogue in a more prestigous part of New York.
The distance between Rabbi Stone and Lara Croft is still big: she looks realistic and he looks like he got ou of an 80's game - but with a lot of faith you can overcome the small details. Stone's character is differnet from the classic Rabbi character: he's grumpy, swears and does not wear black clothes and a yarmulka. Despite that, if anyone would try to find antisemistic messages in the provocative character of the Raabi, will not try to find them. The reason is that the brain behind the new genre of Jewish computer games is, of course, jewish himself.
Dave Gilbert created the game in only 30 days, to compete in a young programmers competition. After winning the competition a computer game company has decided to market "The Shivah" commercially. Lately Gilbert has bene interviewed in a New York Jewish life website and told how th eplot came to his mind: "I had an idea to creat a game about a priest that loses his faith, the problem is I don't know anything about priests. I'm jewish, so istead of a priest I made a game about a Rabbi."
In his words, "The Shivah" raises questions about the intergrity of faith and the ability to forgive. The game uses a line of known jewish cliches, for example the napping of followers in the synagogue. Additionaly the player who is not knoledgeable in Yiddish receives a small dictionary with words such as "yente" and of course "shikse". However Gilnert takes pride that at least Rabbi Stone never says "oy vey" even once.
The game achieved a worldwide recognition, including being mentioned in the large news website and agencies , but the media coverage did not being angry comments by the American Jewish community. However, there' a big doubt if such a game can be marketed in Israel.
"In Israel people have much more tradition, and the people know more about the meaning of the Rabbi", explains Rabbi Isaac Batzri, the son of one of the most important Rabbis - Jerusalem's Rabbi David Batzri. "There's no concept of a Rabbi that swears and hits, and there's no Rabbi who is involved in conflicts and plots. If there's a Rabbi that's invovled in crimical activies, he's cast off. Such a game wouldn't pass in the country.". Batzri was surprised to hear that the game has been designed by a jewish programmer: "It is lack of valuse. A jew iwht values wouldn't in a character of a Rabbi a person who's invovled in wars, fights and violence." explains Batzri". "if a jewish person makes such a game he jsut doesn't understand. A Rabbi is not a politician, and his poweris spritual. The biggest Rabbis have been discovered due to their spirirtual powers, and any connection to materialistic things is wrong."
In opposition of Rabbi Batzri, Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, a member of the Main Rabbinistic Council is less agitated with the game - but worries more about the dangers of the internet. "one more game or one less, it's nothing," says Eliyahu. "The entire gneeration that gew up based on what's available in millions of websites cannot manage a normal family". Eliyahu warns that the web dishonors the woman and makes the husband answer his needs outside the family. In the last few years the Rabbinistic community has started co-opeatring with the computer industry, and dozens or hunderds of religious website hae been established. Rabbi Eliyahu himself has been answering religioius questions through the internet for a few years. However jokes about Rabbis are still off limits.
HISTERIC CULT GAME
By Dora Kishinevski
Most Adventure games must be boxoffice breaking epics to justify the price tag, but there's also games that alloow themsleves to the gamer version of a short cinemateque film. "The Shivah" is such a game. It's a jewish adventure game, which has been made independently by a young American programmer and is downloadable from ManifestoGames.com for no more than $5.
In "The Shivah" - which looks and behaves like the classic io's adventure games, including the pixelized graphics - you will play Russel Stone, a sexy bitter anti-hero, who is a Rabbi of a dwindling jewish community in New York. the Rabbi is not happy with followers' abandonment, from the holes in the synagogue's carpet, the fate of the Jewish people and life in general. He's not even satisifed when he's informed that a guy who has been cast out from the commnuity in the past has left a huge inhertiance to the synagogue. Stone maybe has differences with god, but his conciouns still makes him to investigate why the man has decided to give the money and more importantly - who the hell murdered him.
Such begins an adventure that features inside monologues of the hero and conflicts with questionable people - all with a heavy jewish twist. From the house of the shikse widow till the "bastards" in the Irish pub it's hard to find a character that has nothing to say on the bible people, and doesn't have a sentence that include diaspora humor or a juciy Yiddish swear. If the American can still take part in this concept seriously, for the Israeli gamer - who's not used to seeing himself as a member of an exotic religious group - it's an histeric cult game.
As for gameplat, it's nothing brilliant: it's short, not hard and linear, meaning the player usually doesn't have a real freedom of action in the gameworld. However, you will find a serious and interesting approach ti games and a lot of 90's nostalgia, including a witty homage to dialogue battles in the classic adventure game "Monkey Island". Besides, you might learn some Yiddish.
Now I'd just like to comment on what the Rabbi Btazri says - he's dead wrong. There's a lot of indescency and dishonor and criminality in religious communities in Israel - including some Rabbis. He just chooses to ignore those and say otherwide to cover for it and uses religiuos leaders bullshit cliches.
As for Rabbi's Stone looks and his community people must understand it's not about a Rabbi in Jerusalem or Israel - it's about a Rabbi in New York, and that's how some Rabbis look like in America. so the comparison is unfair. I bet the people who wrote thsoe comments don't understand American synagogues.
Sweet! Thanks for the post, Nostradamus. It's nice to see the game has gotten some worldwide recognition. Except...
QuoteStone's character is differnet from the classic Rabbi character: he's grumpy, swears and does not wear black clothes and a yarmulka.
Hm. "Grumpy"? I'll give you. "Swears"? Eh, maybe a few yiddish words here and there. "Does not wear black clothes and a yarmulka"? Er... perhaps they didn't look close enough?
Anyway, I can see where Rabbi Btzari is coming from. Stone is hardly a "nice" guy by any means, although that was kind of the point. :) Still, sometimes negative publicity is good publicity, so I ain't complainin'!
I'd love to see a scan, if you can snag one.
-Dave
Yeah they didn't look hard enough at Stone that's right. But maybe it's jst they expected to see the traditional long beard and huge yarmulka\hat. Though the other Rabbi in the game has the long beard.
Perhaps this is a bit nosey, but I would be interested to hear how well your games are doing for you economically. How many of Shiva's have been sold, as well as the Blackwell game. Is this a full time thing now, or just a hobby that earns a little keep? I'm interested because what you are doing now is a dream for many of us, and it would be nice to see how well it works.
I will be buying both games as soon as I graduate and aren't dependant on my parents. So you can count at least 20 dollars from me this upcomming summer.
-MillsJROSS
Quote from: MillsJROSS on Tue 26/12/2006 05:19:45
Perhaps this is a bit nosey, but I would be interested to hear how well your games are doing for you economically. How many of Shiva's have been sold, as well as the Blackwell game.
I just want to speak out for a fellow game developer... releasing figures like that has an effect on sales, it's not something that should be publically announced. Maybe by PM, but not here. I hope you understand, I'm not trying to be rude.
I do understand that...which is why I thought the question was nosey. That said I don't necessarily agree that the release of those figures necessarily hurts the sale of games. But I don't really want to argue that point, because I don't have anything other than my personal thoughts to guide me to that decision, and I know regardless of figures, I'll be buying Dave's games.
However, if this is working out well for Dave, it would be not only nice to hear about it, but I know it would help me weigh the options of doing the same thing myself in the future.
-MillsJROSS
I can't speak for the commercial brothers but if FoY was sold for $4.99 we'd have £102,138.00 if just over three quarters of those who downloaded the demo "bought" the game. Of course, the game will NOT be for sale, but we often do this with film projects in college. Even though you do it for next to nothing, we have a chart that helps you work it out how much it would cost if it was a "real" production. I worked out my Judgement Day music video would have probably cost £8000 to make profesionally. Interesting. I too would like to know how the commercial AGS games are doing, and I'm not a big fan of the secretive attitude over these kind of issues, seen as we all started out here together - but each to their own. It is pretty nosey, but it is information I think the most of us who are trying to do this amatuer thing at a professional level, are still very interested in. Not in a rude or competitive sense, but it would be good to see who leads the way, ie. did Fatman sell more than Blackwell? Did Blackwell sell more than Super Jazz? Etc. If we were all able to see the figures, or a rough version of these figures, or even just an "example" which has some truth in it, those developing or wanting to develop commercial adventure games could see really what is and what isn't working. Aswell as developers, artists etc - you guys are first hand market researchers, and as this ISN'T meant to be a competitive community, it would be nice to have access to it. Anyway, that's future stuff.
I have no hard information, but I think you'll find, m0ds, that the distinction between "free" and even a very low price is a wide chasm indeed. Rather than 3/4, I would be thinking 1/100, if that. (And, of course, Indy is an established title known from movies and games.)
Based on comments about other commercial AGS games, I believe we're talking numbers in the dozens (if you're unlucky) or hundreds (if more fortunate), hardly ever thousands.
Yes, the commonly-used estimate of sales is 1% of the downloads of your demo will result in a purchase. And then, as Snarky says, we're dealing with the limited market of those into retro point-and-click games...
Not to mention the 100% plus legal fees when George sues you for all you've got, m0ds.... ;)
I too would like to know the figures too :) I have an unbalanced view of how my game might sell, would it be successful, etc but it is very early days yet. And I could do with advice on the best way to distribute, how I would without getting rejected, and so on. I feel Dave's Blackwell game is worth a good buy and I have enjoyed playing it :). So anyway, if sales figures cant be posted here, could Dave PM me? Anyway thanks, its great to know we all here have each others support in our game endeavours :)
Come on people, Super Jazz Man was just released on the 21st, and Blackwell Legacy two days later. Do you really think half a week's worth of sales are going to tell you anything about how well the games are selling? Especially since we are just coming off the holiday season where perhaps the majority of people couldn't buy the games because they were buying gifts or hosting fabulous parties?
Where I come from, asking someone how much money they make is rude, and is usually met with a very vague answer like "Well...I am able to take care of myself and my family", with a hint of annoyance in their voice. Even if you ask for how many sales there were, you could still figure out; "If Tim sold 900 downloads of his game, which he sold for $11, he would have $9,900 \o/ yay!!1". Anyway you look at it, it's a personal question, and unless you are very good friends with the developer and they feel comfortable telling you things like their passwords or lock combinations, or when the last time they went to the bathroom was, I'd say you're out of luck , and best off trying to sell a game commercially yourself.
I don't understand why there's really a discussion here. If you think what I asked is rude, fine, I don't pretend it isn't rude, but regardless, the question remains in the air, and the only one who can really say whether it's personal to them or not is Dave. If he doesn't want to answer it, I completely understand.
However, this is a community of amatuer/independant adventure game developers. While the stress of AGS isn't commercial, there are still many people in this community considering this route. While different games will surely yield different dollars, it would be nice to see how well, or even unwell, this venture is, because, hopefully, other's can see what was either done right or wrong, or just plain evaluate how well the independant adventure game market is.
Game companies usually release some data as to how well their games have sold. I really don't see how this will hurt Dave. Obviously, Blackwell has just been released, but Shivah's been around for a while.
I think the answer to this would especially affect me, as I'll be out of college in a few months, and I'm right at the place in my life where I'm either considering doing this as a hobby or an actual job, and I know these figures would surely have an impact on my decision later in life. Creating games has been a dream of mine, and I'm sure many others, for a looong time. However, I'll have a degree in Computer Science, and probably will be able to find a stable programming job, and be content in life. So I'm at a crossroads in my life where I'm not sure whether I want to go with stability or independant adventure game development. So I apologize for being rude, but I'll take rudeness over being uninformed anyday.
-MillsJROSS
This isn't the first time these questions have been asked. :) I don't mind the question, and I've decided to answer in general terms. I had typed up a wicked long post, but instead decided to make a blog entry out of it: http://www.davelgil.com.
Here is the image of the article Dave, left click the thumbnail to view full size:
(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3292/img1818lz9.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1818lz9.jpg)
Could that image be placed behind a link? It's making the thread well unreadable :P
Yeah... Please? :P :)
Done for the guys with the size problems...
Now can you please remove these irrelevant tounge out smilies too? What do those have to do with what you posted?.. :=
It is the sarcastic tounge smiley! Is describes the confusion we feel when we try to understand your logic when posting huge pictures!
:P
It looks like that newspaper had a mole at Brittens :o
It looks like that newspaper forgot to learn english. Oh dear.
Victor the tounge out face does not mean sarcasm, when you do it means to mock\taunt the one you're speaking with. That's why I hate it this much - cos so many people on the internet have this false concept of what it means.
Zooty who said it wanted to speak English in the first place?
Oh and the picture is this size and quality so that it would actually be readable for those who understand the language.
Or maybe all these people has got the right... And I certainly don't indend to mock/taunt you.. I actually don't know a single person who interprets this smiley as something taunting/mocking.
For the question of sales, there's an interesting article on Adventure Developers (http://www.adventuredevelopers.com/featuredetail.php?action=view&featureid=37&showpage=1) that looks at the economics of indie adventure games. Most of the games are somewhat higher end than your average AGS game (Dark Fall, Gilbert Goodmate, Scratches), but the article also mentions Fatman.
The numbers are better than I would have expected, but I wonder how seriously VGA-style graphics limit the market for a game like this.
Well vict0r seeing how all the other smilies represent emotions that used to be conveyed by making said face in real life and the same emotions carried on to smiley form, then there sahouldn't be no reason why htis particular emotion should be changed when it's in smiley form in the internet.
Anyway we're getting off topic.
what's a tounge?
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 31/12/2006 18:06:38
For the question of sales, there's an interesting article on Adventure Developers (http://www.adventuredevelopers.com/featuredetail.php?action=view&featureid=37&showpage=1) that looks at the economics of indie adventure games. Most of the games are somewhat higher end than your average AGS game (Dark Fall, Gilbert Goodmate, Scratches), but the article also mentions Fatman.
The numbers are better than I would have expected, but I wonder how seriously VGA-style graphics limit the market for a game like this.
That's a good question, and one many people ask me. My reply is always the same. I might move on to high res or 3D graphics or high-end engines at some point, but I don't know anything about them, nor the time in which to learn about them, so - for now! - I'm sticking with what I know. You've gotta start somewhere.
I don't think people have a problem with VGA graphics, as look as the style is clean and consistent.
I certainly don't.
Congrats also, Dave. :)
Now a mention on Wired (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/play.html?pg=4) for The Shivah. Manifesto Games is doing a pretty excellent job of promoting this little game.
Thanks! I managed to snag a copy of that magazine today. The write-up is so small I'm surprised people have seen it, but it's still nice to be in print!