I was wondering if I released the game I'm planning to make (it's getting along... slowly) for free in the downloads section, but also released a commercial version, (In a box, with jewel or keep case) would you buy the costly one? Or is it not worth making a professional version (because everyone will just get the free one). I don't want to MAKE people pay, but I'd like them to, obviously. The full one will have extras like art and such, but the game will be exactly the same.
I would also buy it if it's worth the money. I have many CDs, movies and games I've bought even when I've already had them downloaded.
It depends indeed on the added values. If there's nice printed documentation with it, a good quality, good-looking box, maybe some other 'goodies' like an extra audiodisc (game soundtrack?), then I'd buy one. But it would be more out of the collectors point of view, not the gamer. The game itself is just the 0's and 1's.
So far I've 'collected' quite a few games that were available for download as well (legally or not).
I doubt that you'd be able to sell enough copies to actually make a profit. With the cost of writable cds, printing, and postage, not to mention the work you put into it, you're already stretching the limit of what people might want to pay for a game they already downloaded for free. Of course it all depends on the quality of the game as well as the extras. But I think a better strategy would be to make a succesful game, release it for free to show people what you're capable of, and then start working on a commercial game. If you want people to have your first game on their shelves, release cover artwork for people to print themselves - in my opinion, the couple of bucks you could make by doing it yourself isn't worth the trouble.
Check out http://xiigames.com and http://davelgil.com for two guys who have already/are going commercial with AGS games, and read their informative blogs...
And pay special attention to Dave's postmortem on The Shivah (http://www.davelgil.com/wordpress/?p=190), where he discusses the mistake of releasing the original version for free. But also keep in mind that both Dave and Vince proved themselves by releasing freeware games before going commercial.
If the game is exactly the same, the only people who would buy the commercial version are those who are really great fans. Or your good friends. It's sad, but no matter how good your game is I think people are more likely to want to play it for free. Don't forget, for the physical version they would still have to pay for postage as well.
Unless, of course, your extras involve something like an extra scene, or a hidden mini-game, or something more game-related than just art.
I'm speaking as someone who's considered this idea before, though not for a game. Mine was a free comic - I offered a printed book version, but no one bought it besides one or two really close friends. Granted, I didn't add any extras, but I really don't think it would have made much difference... (or maybe my art is just really that bad :P )
I can put in my two cents here, since I did this exact same thing about two years ago. The Shivah was originally freeware, and when I decided to sell it commercially (after getting folks to improve the graphics, music and adding voice acting). I planned to leave both versions up.
What ended up happening was that the free version got downloaded a lot more, while very few people bought the commercial version. Even though it was a much improved game, many people couldn't justify paying for a game they'd already played for free. In the end, I removed the free version. This angered a vocal minority, but was a better move in the long run. Two years later, very few people remember that it was ever free in the first place.
In your case, I guess it depends on what your motives/goals are. If you are using this as a stepping stone to selling your own games, I'd strongly suggest NOT releasing a freeware version. If you want to test the waters to see if you're able to market and sell a game, giving it away for free won't teach you anything. But if you are just doing it for fun, why not?
-Dave
I would like to point out that it is easier to spread a free game than it is to spread a commercial one.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Wed 13/02/2008 13:32:31
keep in mind that both Dave and Vince proved themselves by releasing freeware games before going commercial.
That's probably the way to go. No, on second thoughts, there isn't much point releasing a commercial version, not until I'm certain someone will buy it. Thanks for the help guys. :)
But isn't this the infinite loop? You can't know if people want to buy it until they've seen it. And they can only see it if you release it as share/freeware. But then there's no point in selling it anymore...
Quote from: Leon on Wed 13/02/2008 20:27:07
You can't know if people want to buy it until they've seen it. And they can only see it if you release it as share/freeware. But then there's no point in selling it anymore...
Not quite.
The system works like this:
Freeware game- Shows people that games are good.
People- Want more games.
Commercial game- People buy it, based on past experience (with freeware.)
eg: Demos for commercial games are freely available, and If you liked the demo, you're more likely to want the game.
If you ultimate goal is to make money from the game, why don't you make available a free demo but they'll need to buy the game to play the full version? On the other hand, if your goal is to get as many people to play your game as possible, then offer a full free version. To entice the fans to purchase the game, offer tons of goodies that are only available in the "commercial" version. I suppose you could also ask for donations.
I imagine that the ideal outcome is to make the game commercial AND to have as many people play it as possible. :P
Another possibility is donateware: the players set the price, in other words. You send them a "commercial" copy with lots of extras if they donate. I've seen several websites doing this, but I'm not sure how succussful they are.
Yeah, Yahtzee has a 'special edition' for most of his games, which you can gain access to if you donate 5 or more quid. Dunno if it's really done much - he certainly isn't dining with Bill Gates or anything...
Personally, I don't think you'll make much money with old-fashioned adventure games any more, unless it has HD graphics and Brad Pitt doing the main character's voice...
Then again, there's not much glory either - a couple pats on the back by various adventure game communities. Not like you'll be getting a BAFTA or something.
I think it's more about personal achievements. "Yay, I made a video game that's fairly popular. My dream's come true."
Either that, or it's just for the shits and giggles...
There's still a market for "old-school" adventure games, though it's relatively small, and more or less confined to the internet. You'll never be rich, imho, but there is profit to be made.
I'm not sure how successful enhanced versions of otherwise freeware games ultimately prove; Dave's situation with The Shivah not withstanding. I'm sure loyal Yahtzoid's pay for the privilege of owning the various special editions he releases, but I doubt he makes any more than (a healthy amount of) beer money from the profits. I could be wrong, of course.
The reasons why we make games may vary, but I think fame/money/sex wouldn't be very high on the list.
Though he may disagree, Dave Gilbert has set the bar for the commercial AGS "model". He's not smoking it up with Donald Trump in the VIP room of Caesar's just yet, but I'm sure whatever the ultimate glory that may be achieved by going commercial, Dave will likely be one of the first to experience it.
Quote from: Emerald on Thu 14/02/2008 23:39:01
I think it's more about personal achievements. "Yay, I made a video game that's fairly popular. My dream's come true."
Either that, or it's just for the shits and giggles...
It's pretty much both. :)
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 15/02/2008 00:08:43
The reasons why we make games may vary, but I think fame/money/sex wouldn't be very high on the list.
I can't speak for everyone, but I totally got into game development to pick up chicks.
Quote
I can't speak for everyone, but I totally got into game development to pick up chicks.
So it works!? Wooooo, I'm saved!
*ducks so girlfriend's fist misses by mere inches*
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 15/02/2008 00:08:43
He's not smoking it up with Donald Trump in the VIP room of Caesar's just yet
Oi, you just ripped off my crappy joke...
I make games in an effort to bring peace to the world. Or unleash the apocalypse. Whichever comes first.
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Fri 15/02/2008 00:27:57
I can't speak for everyone, but I totally got into game development to pick up chicks.
I hear Will Wright gets so much skirt...
Quote from: Emerald on Fri 15/02/2008 00:46:15
Oi, you just ripped off my crappy joke...
No, I took your joke and made it better. :)
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Fri 15/02/2008 00:27:57
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 15/02/2008 00:08:43
The reasons why we make games may vary, but I think fame/money/sex wouldn't be very high on the list.
I can't speak for everyone, but I totally got into game development to pick up chicks.
Yeah, and I can personally vouch for him in that he is not lying either :P
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Fri 15/02/2008 00:27:57
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 15/02/2008 00:08:43
The reasons why we make games may vary, but I think fame/money/sex wouldn't be very high on the list.
I can't speak for everyone, but I totally got into game development to pick up chicks.
Of course by "chicks" he means "baby chickens." See, with all the money he makes developing games he'll have enough to go buy a fresh batch of fertilized eggs, and make his chicken farming dreams finally come true! :=
I'd been thinking about trying a straight donation system for one of my games in progress...I've been paying an artist for the background work, and it should be a pretty great full-length game. (Damn well better be...I'll have invested over $1000 total in it by the time it's done. :) ) Instead of risking trying to go straight commercial, do you think people would go for a "Send me whatever you think the game was worth, whether it was 10 bucks or a quarter" sort of thing? It's definitely a labor of love, otherwise I wouldn't be putting all the money into it, it'd just be nice to think that people would appreciate it enough to at least make some of my investment back, however small. I'm happy regardless, just curious.
No. People don't do too well with a 'send whatever' type approach, and there's pretty ample evidence for this if you want to look and do a little research. People like to know solid numbers for services rendered, so my advice is to try offering your game as shareware for a set price (or donationware if you are less confident). Definitely offer a price for your services, because not doing so just confuses most people, even if it's ten bucks. Now, one thing you could do is run a voting drive to set the price of your game based on screenshots, features, and general play length and offer some reasonable prices to select from. That might work, too, and having a demo out there is a great way to give people a feel for your game.
Hehe, if you really wanna kick people in the balls, you could make an unprecedentedly long demo which goes right up to the last chapter of the game, and then cut off with a "like this game? Buy it for just $19!"
It'll piss people off, but chances are by then they'll be invested enough in the story to just pay the money...
That last idea may backfire a little. If I played a game that led me to the last chapter and asked me to pay, it would probably strengthen my decision NOT to pay. :P So I'd try to get it by, ahem, less than legal means if it was really that good, or else I'd (more likely) just toss it aside and forget about it.
Strange Visitor, I agree that if you've already invested that much money, go ahead and make it commercial with a set price. Having a demo can work wonders. I was introduced to Gabriel Knight, the obsession of my childhood, through a demo.
Demos should be short. You don't want to tell the player "Haha! Thought you could play more without paying? Well you can't!!"
That'll just annoy people, and discourage them from supporting you further. They might also be bored with the prospect of re-playing too large a chunk of the game.
The extent of a demo should be very clear from the start, and preferably just one room or so, to let the player feel the game, like an appetizer. I think the best demos are purely cinematic, like a film teaser or something.
I think a straight cinematic demo would work really well for this game, too...it's got a lot of good-looking locations and funny events, so I think shown in the right sequence it could hook people pretty well. :) I'd always thought before about charging something like $5 for a digital download with scanned documentation, or $10 for a simple jewel-case-with-cover-art-and-documentation-booklet-and-printed-label-CD, nothing fancy at all, just homemade but nice looking stuff for people who want a hard copy. If I could just get 33 cents apiece from as many people as have downloaded Chicken VS Road, I'd easily make back my production cost, which was why the give-what-you-felt donations seemed like a good idea. But I totally see what you mean, ProgZmax, and I think that voting drive seems like a more awesomer idea.
(Just to save on mystery - it's a total overhaul of the "Henchman" game I In-Production-Threaded a couple years back, and the money I've invested in a background artist for the 90+ fully detailed backgrounds has *so* been worth it, in time and backbreaking effort saved on my part. It's probably a couple years off from being ready for a re-posted thread. I've been reworking all the characters, animations, everything, to bring it up to a much higher quality level. So between that and it being a full-length game, I think it'll be downloaded at least a few thousand times more than CvR.)
One thing a few people have done is to release a game as freeware but also have an extended edition with commentaries, extra scenes, improved graphics etc. If people like the game enough that they want all the extra bits and bobs then they can buy the extended version for a small fee.
I think Yahtzee did a similar thing with the Trilby games.