split commercial and non-commercial games

[Nachtvlinder]

Since the number of commercial games is rising lately, would it not be a good idea to make a split. I've seen the question asked in some threads, but I could not find an actual topic about it. So here it is.

First an for all I do want a discussion if AGS games should be commercial or not. There are some older threads about it and it's a completely different subject anyway. I will write you my opinion about it though. I myself own one commercial game, "Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine". I loved the Tierra kingsquest remakes so I decided to go for it. They've put a lot of effort in making it. so it's worth giving something in exchange. I mean it's great that are non-commercial games  like "a tale of two kingdoms", wich was great and even finished to a greater detail than most older commercial adventure games.

Anyway the question is wo would agree to it would be a good thing to create to create a "finished commercial games anouncements" in the forums and "commercial games" on the main page. So people can choose wether they are interested or not. It would put a bit more attention to them too, I'd think.

A little side idea which occures to me is that those commercial games could sponsor AGS too. I mean Chris Jones is putting a lot of energy and as far as I know even money (which is just materialised energy in my opinion) in it to give it away freely. But he ought to have the license changed then (free for non commercial use) and that's something he has to decide.

Write me what you think. I'm curious.

[ildu]

I don't understand how anyone can justify if a game made with AGS should or should not be commercial. If it's a purist argument, one can shove one's opinion where the sun don't shine. I say do what you want with it while keeping in mind the limitations, and respecting the enabler.

Seeing as there's not a great number of games coming out overall, it would be pretty pointless to start a whole new forum category, one which would end up being used only like twice a year anyway. There could be clearer specification of the commercial nature of released games (like a topic note, etc.), but the same argument goes for this as well. There are not enough commercial games coming out to make a clear difference.

As for the commercial license for AGS, CJ has decided that the tools are open source and has declined earlier suggestions to make it non-free for commercial games. Go figure...

[scotch]

How many commercial games are there now? Dave has three, Himalaya have one, and Herculean have one. I think there are a few more. It's probably less than 10 though.

It doesn't seem to me that the commercial games are very different to the non commercial so far. All are made by semi amateur teams, and although commercial releases tend to be better quality than average, they aren't in a totally different league. On the other hand I do think that if people want to, it could be a good idea for people to mark their released game threads as commercial or not, for those who are more or less willing to buy games. A new forum for it would be nearly empty, so I wouldn't go for that, but a special category listing on the games DB could be helpful.

A commercial project has organised to give money to CJ for special support/features before, but on the whole he's not been interested in that kind of thing. He has a regular job, and indie adventure game dev isn't exactly a big money spinner.

[m0ds]

Aye, it's more of a collective of specifically AGS games, rather than a selection of free and...not free games. But I think highlighting those amateur teams who ARE using AGS for decent commercial quality should be rewarded with perhaps a small graphic on the AGS homepage or a seperate thread (if you really think that will generate interest...im yet to be convinced!). But like pick of the month, using quality control on that decision on the lucky banners. Not random "i can make an exe & CHARGE FOR IT" games. take that as you wish I remember back in the day people would get so excited about their link on your page, or vice versa. It'd be nice of CJ to reward people in such a way Definitely for Dave Gilbotron & Herculean who both have extremely strong ties with AGS.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

How would a split make things better than this thread?

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=30349.0

We have the games in the Completed board. We have a thread summarizing and linking to commercial games. Why should we make further divisions?

[Radiant]

I am curious though... speaking as someone who used to sell his indie games, I'm wondering if this "going commercial" is actually paying the bills for people? It's a tough market out there.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

No.  Not yet, anyway! 

[Ishmael]

As for the commercial license for AGS, CJ has decided that the tools are open source and has declined earlier suggestions to make it non-free for commercial games. Go figure...

To avoid confusing anyone, AGS is not open source.

[Snake]

I don't see what the problem is with what's already stickied in the Completed Games forum.

I wouldn't be opposed to an idea of the commercial games having their own page on the AGS site, though. Here you can read about all the games individually so it's a little more organized. Maybe this page could even give tips on how to sell your game if you wanted.
You know, for the laymen like me. Not that I'm ever going to sell a game

(or finish one at least)


--Snake

[FSi++]

I think a simple mark on the games DB page would be enough.
It could be either a "This is a commercial game" banner (just an option on Add game page), or another field ("This game cost $gameprice") like Download Size on the current one, or both
Not a big hassle to implement and it would make a life much easier.

[Dave Gilbert]

I do think that having a "commercial" section on the database would be nice.  Seeing Blackwell Legacy demoted to "demo" status is kind of disappointing, since people will never come across the game while browsing the completed game sections.

I am curious though... speaking as someone who used to sell his indie games, I'm wondering if this "going commercial" is actually paying the bills for people? It's a tough market out there.

I don't want to send this thread offtopic, but I will say that this indie developer thing is my fulltime gig and it is paying the bills.  Barely.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Why is Legacy demoted to "Demo"? You can have an entry for the full game and specify that the link links only to a demo, and that the website links to where you have to go in order to buy it.

[LimpingFish]

But the version of Blackwell offered in the database is the demo version. Just as Super Jazz Man and Al Emmo are listed as demo versions. All have price details and links to their respective homepages in the "More Details..." section.

[Dave Gilbert]

But the version of Blackwell offered in the database is the demo version. Just as Super Jazz Man and Al Emmo are listed as demo versions. All have price details and links to their respective homepages in the "More Details..." section.

Granted.  However, since the full games are available (just not in the database, for obvious reasons), it seems a tad unfair that we can't advertise that fact in the "completed games" areas.  A seperate "commercial game" field for the database would be the best solution.

[Snake]

A seperate "commercial game" field for the database would be the best solution.

Right-e-o.

It's organized and people can browse only the commercial games if they want. What's wrong with that?

I agree. They're too hidden. For people that aren't AGS members and who don't travel these forums very often won't know that there's a thread with these games listed in them - heh, as if they were outcasts

Anyway, there's too many games to know which one is which when they're all combined as the same. They're not the same.

Making a seperate "field" or page for them would make more sence to me.


--Snake

[mouthuvmine]

One thing that occurrs to me though (assuming we're talking about the Completed Games Forum here), is that a lot of people might be browsing the completed games section unaware of the fact that the game they're reading about is commercial, allowing them to get some info before they realize there's a price on it. The term commercial in reference to an AGS game can real put a new member off. But that's just for the forum.

I just think it gives the game a better chance of success when people get to see the pitch first.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I really don't understand what you mean. Apart from Banana Man, every game is clearly marked as commercial on the first post. There's usually even a price.

Anyway, we're suddenly talking as if commercial games were a bad thing to have among us.

[Snake]

...we're suddenly talking as if commercial games were a bad thing to have among us.

No-no. That's not what I'm saying. Don't turn this around into something else entirely.

What I'm saying is, apart from the stickied thread in the Game Announcements forum, you have to "sift" through all of the threads finding wich ones are commercial or not. Labeled in the subject helps, but you're still going through pages and pages of games.

The stickied thread is fine, but what I don't like about it is that every game is on the same post. I think it would be good to have their own games page on the AGS site itself - with pictures and what ever else.

No one is saying they can't be announced in the completed games forum anymore, like they're some sort of "taboo". Don't jump to conclusions and make something like a simple idea into a big debate about "commercial games should have the same rights as free games". Ergh.


--Snake

[Radiant]

I think the simplest option would be for a switch for "commercial games" in the games.php page. I can just as easily imagine people wanting to search for commercials, as people wanting to search for everything but commercials.