General AGS questions. I am a totall n00b in programming.

HristosKo34 · Fri 22/02/2013 11:29:17

Hello guys. I have never, EVER, tried to program before. Even in Basic at school. I am 35 years old. I have a day life job and a family (which means a very few free time). I also SUCK in mathematics. As far as I remember myself, I liked adventure games. For many reasons I do not enjoy them as much as I used to in the past but I still want to make my own adventure games. Think of it like a child's dream never come true. Mainly, I like the story telling part and the dialogue/riddle part.
So, here is my questions: 1] Does it worth to spent MANY MANY years to learn the programming language of the A.G.S? 2] Maybe it would be more preferable to start learning some programming basics? (if that, any help where to start and what to learn?). 3] Let's say, I FINALLY learn the language in 5-6 years (I mean to master the language although, I doubt about learning it in such a short time.....). Anyway! Let's say I succeed in learning it. What will happen to AGS? Are there any plans about "abandoning the whole A.G.S. project"? Does anyone know anything about the future plans of Chris Jones?
Thank you for your time guys

Ghost · Fri 22/02/2013 11:41:47

Hello, and welcome to the wonderful world of adventure-making, which can EAT family life

AGS is not a programming language, but a script language. It's a "framework", meaning that it has a lot of the basic work already done for you. If you were to program an adventure game from the ground up (in C#, for example), you'd have to set up a window, the graphics and sound system, and a whole structure to manage characters, items, and so on. You'd have to write your own engine before you could start work on an actual game. It would be a LOT of work even to get a man walking down a road.

AGS's script language is quite intuitive, and you can make a small, simple game with a couple of pretty self-explanatory commands, like player.Say("Hi!") or player.Walk(x,y). A lot of core concepts of programming still apply but these are easy to grasp- if you put a little time into it and are not afraid to read the manual and ask around, you should be fine. Compared to a full-fledged programming language AGS is... not exactly simple, but you can rely on the engine to provide a solid base; the rest is more a way to "write things".

I don't think you'll actually need 5/6 years for learning the language. In fact you can get a good grasp of the basics in a couple of weeks (worked for me), and after that you can expand your knowledge. Practise makes perfect- in your first game you may have a stickman open a door with a key hidden under a rug, in the next game you may try out to write your own User Interface, and so on.

A grasp of basic programming knowledge is great, like how you sort commands into functions and how you use switch commands like if-then. There are several sites to get you started; since AGS is somewhat similar to C++ I'd buy a "Beginner's Book" or, alternatively, hit a tutorial site like this one: http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html

As for the future of AGS, Chris Jones has pretty much left the whole code as open-source, and there are several people who are trying to make improvements to it, but it seems unlikely that what you learn now will ever really become obsolete.

So my suggestion would be: Download the last version, open the hep file, go through the tutorial, and get a feeling for the editor. You will face problems, but the learning curve isn't that steep, and the forum's always there for a newcomer who can't figure out things.

And most importantly- happy game-making!

Crimson Wizard · Fri 22/02/2013 11:53:23

Quote from: HristosKo34 on Fri 22/02/2013 11:29:17
1] Does it worth to spent MANY MANY years to learn the programming language of the A.G.S?

AGS scripting language is relatively simple, and judging on what I saw here on forums, a lot of people, who approached the task seriously (meaning - they were not too lazy to learn), were able to grasp it pretty fast.
Also, it might be important to note, that you don't have to learn everything from AGS or scripting to produce a game. You start with basics, and sometimes it is enough for your first game.
And, BTW, maths is not always needed for programming. Logic is though.

Quote from: HristosKo34 on Fri 22/02/2013 11:29:17
2] Maybe it would be more preferable to start learning some programming basics?

Unless your aim is to become a professional programmer, it does not makes much difference what you start with. You will learn programming basics anyway, by completing AGS tutorials, and writing first games.

Quote from: HristosKo34 on Fri 22/02/2013 11:29:17
Let's say I succeed in learning it. What will happen to AGS? Are there any plans about "abandoning the whole A.G.S. project"? Does anyone know anything about the future plans of Chris Jones?

AFAIK, AGS is already abandoned by Chris Jones, and now it is being developed by people from community.
But, seriously, game editor is not something that you can't use if it is no longer supported by its author(s).

What is very important to mention, is that you really do not have to study programming, if you can't or do not want to. You may seek for people who already can. We have a whole forum section for that: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?board=20.0

UPD: I forgot to mention. Use Tutorials!
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/Tutorial_(manual)
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/Scripting_tutorial_part_1
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/Scripting_tutorial_part_2

HristosKo34 · Fri 22/02/2013 12:34:42

Thank you both for your answers.

I have another question that just came in my mind.

Are there any other engines on the net for making adventure games? So far I know AGS, Visionaire, Wintermute and SLUDGE. (I am asking just for curiosity).

Thank you all.

Fitz · Fri 22/02/2013 12:42:19

I had close to zero experience in programming when I first started working on Gray 2,5 years ago -- and no experience in other game making engines. So it's not impossible for a stubborn noob to learn, I guess

These youtube tutorials were very helpful, really helped me to understand how AGS works.

Ghost · Fri 22/02/2013 13:22:47

Quote from: HristosKo34 on Fri 22/02/2013 12:34:42
Are there any other engines on the net for making adventure games? So far I know AGS, Visionaire, Wintermute and SLUDGE. (I am asking just for curiosity).

Visionaire is superior to AGS in terms of the overall looks, but it's (subjectively) harder to program and, while it has a "free" version, you can't seal your assets with that version, meaning everyone can take your graphics/sounds without problems.

Wintermute is okay, but personally I found the toolkit a bit too complicated. Community support seems to wane, too.

3D Game Maker and DarkBasic have been succesfully used to make adventure games, you may want to check them out. The latter's pretty vintage though and I don't know how popular/active it still is.

If you want to try your hands on a text adventure, I can recommend Inform. The latest version also has a pretty novel approach to "programming" by allowing natural language. You wrrite "There is a book on a table", and the engine creates these entities so that you can later add to their functionality. It's fun to mess around with it!

A sub-genre, Visual Novels, can be made with Ren'Py. Also nice to tinker with, but a bit limited for my taste- but it's free.

Also, the youtube videos Fitz mentioned are a superb starting point. I always forget to point them out

cat · Fri 22/02/2013 13:38:10

Great advice so far, I only add one thing: Start small! Make your first game a small one-room game to learn how to program, draw, animate. You can always make a bigger game later on.

Stupot · Fri 22/02/2013 14:13:39

Yeah Densmings videos are invaluable. That and the in-editor tutorial are all you really need to make your first basic adventure game.
This book, also from Densming is a good accompaniment to the videos.

If and when you do want to have a look at some scripting, there is also this handy little tutorial, (as well as the one's Crimson Wizard suggested). It covers the basics of scripting, and gently explains variables, arrays, things like that.

As others have said, AGS isn't a programming language per se. The only thing you'll really get out of learning to script in AGS is how to script in AGS. If you want to be able to branch out and have something for use in the wider world, you'd have to learn something like C++, but AGS is definitely a good way of getting you foot in the door.

All the best.

Tramponline · Fri 22/02/2013 15:59:20

Wow, even I didn't know about those two resources Stupot. Thanks a lot! Great advice guys!

Are there differences in how 'up-to-date' these tutorials are (3.2.1?), or is this a really marginal point when it comes
to basic scripting?
I'm asking because densmings video tutorials for example are invaluebable, but they seem to be from quite a while
back.

Crimson Wizard · Fri 22/02/2013 16:08:42

Ooooooh. I remember that "AGS Book", a very good thing, I was wondering what happened to it. It still has "DRAFT" watermark in that pdf :-/.

Fitz · Fri 22/02/2013 16:28:30

Quote from: Tramponline on Fri 22/02/2013 15:59:20
Are there differences in how 'up-to-date' these tutorials are (3.2.1?), or is this a really marginal point when it comes
to basic scripting?
I'm asking because densmings video tutorials for example are invaluebable, but they seem to be from quite a while
back.

Yeah, I started learning from Densming's tutorials back in 2010, finished my game in Nov. 2012, with the current version of AGS -- and I've encountered no problems whatsoever. I think the audio scripting is the only thing that changed -- but there is some backwards compatibilty, it seems (you can use PlaySound(xx) or aSoundxx.Play() alternately).

HristosKo34 · Sat 23/02/2013 11:26:14

THANK YOU ALL for your replies.

Anian · Sat 23/02/2013 11:58:15

Quote from: HristosKo34 on Sat 23/02/2013 11:26:14
THANK YOU ALL for your replies.

Yeah, yeah, now go and make a game already.

EKM · Mon 25/02/2013 20:46:45

The biggest challenge is your patience. There will be plenty of times when you will want to rip out your hair and quit because of trial and errors and script commands not working like you thought they would. I only came on the forums to check for some solutions to common queries, but most of my learning came from the Sammy's Quest tutorial videos and my own experimenting. That was very helpful. Learn as you go kind of thing. But, like I said, patience is the biggest challenge; if you have the patience, then you can make it happen.