Has anyone ever paid for a commercial AGS game??

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

AGS wouldn't have a shadow of the good atmosphere and spirit we have now if it was all based on money. I'm not saying that Ionas & company did wrong by charging for their games, but in my heart I believe that if everybody would charge for their games, the community would be a less friendly place to be.

I don't quite follow your reasoning here. Are you implying that all people who want to make money are unfriendly greedy bastards?

And charging money for a game does not make its development "all based on money", because if it were, then we wouldn't even be making adventure games in the first place. What if the developer(s) actually are developing the game out of love, and the money is just a secondary benefit?

[scourge]

I think you can make adventure games for money, no prob, I just don't think AGS is the way to do it.

[Andail]

I don't quite follow your reasoning here. Are you implying that all people who want to make money are unfriendly greedy bastards?

Yes I am, very good observation. I'm just that narrow-minded and rude.

Or, I could imply partly what I said, that games which are made with no intentions to yield a profit will certainly be different, often for worse, but sometimes for the better, which is the case with some of my personal favourites.

When you intend to make money on your games, you need to make them perfect. No glitches, no inconsistency. Some people prefer the artistic touch of non-perfection.

For clarification (to prevent any more suggestions as to what I imply) I could mention games like Mom's Quest and Aaron's epic journey. Those are games which I love to death, I just adore them, yet they would never stand up in a professional arena, because they simply lack what people in generally would consider paying money for.

[MrColossal]

hey hey hey we're all friends here!

* MrColossal does a little tap dance

also:

I think it would take an exceptional AGS game for me to buy it... I don't mean awesome art or MIND BLOWING 3D but just something that can snag me by the brain and make me need that game...

It could even be a text adventure for all I care...

to build off of Squinky mk. I's comment, I wish some more serious, more professional game developement groups would use AGS with the intent to sell just so they could forge the way for other people.

[Andail]

I might add, in case CoveredInSludge misinterpreted my intentions, that I don't want to defend AGS against any other engines or communities or whatever; my defensiveness was totally non-competitive. I have nothing against SLUDGE, in fact I know absolutely nothing about it, and I'm sure it's a great community. If it so happens that you charged for your game  - which by the way looked really cool when I skimmed through some screenshots somewhere - I have nothing against that either. So don't take anything personally.

I just wanted to say that AGS has a very friendly community, and I like to think that the general absence of monetary interests is partly the reason. If you want me to explain why, I'd gladly ramble on in my next post.

[Ginny]

I think even with a very good game charging money, few people will play it, certainly not as many as would have played it if it was free. I, for one, had no bank account up until recently, and found it to be too much of a hassle to buy over the internet anyway. If there's a game I'm really looking forward to and I think it's worth the money, I'll probably go out of my way to buy it, but this is the case for only a few games. It's also nice to have a good game in a box and on cd, rather than just downloded from the internet. Kinda reminds me of an essay we had to write at school about replacing regular books with e-books, which I consider a bad idea.
As for Special Editions, I think they're a great idea. Having something extra on the game cd, or in the game box itself, is a wonderful bonus.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

No offense taken. I'm honestly just not sure as to how the friendliness of a game-making community is related to wanting (or not wanting, rather) to make money.

My personal experience (which consists of SLUDGE and AGAST, though I've poked around WME a teensy bit...) is that other adventure game making communities are just as friendly as AGS is. I've never encountered any hostility, even by people who make games of commercial quality. This, I suppose, is the source of my bafflement. In other words, ramble away!

If you're curious, by the way, I was originally intending to sell my upcoming game, but decided against it partway through development. Why? Because, as I realised, there are tons of high-quality free games out there that I stand no chance in surpassing; to be able to justify charging money for the game, I would have to create something of the same quality as Project Joe or Juniper Crescent. Although I'm a huge perfectionist and strive to make the best games I possibly can, I know my limits, meaning the talent, time, and energy I possess is not enough for such a high standard. Therefore, I'd have much more people playing my game if I gave it away for free than if I sold it, since as demonstrated on these forums, not many people would buy an amateur adventure game unless it were THAT mindblowing.

Heh, maybe I'll write a blog entry on this subject, seeing as I have so much more I can ramble about...

[sergiocornaga]

I bought 'The Adventures of Fatman' after it dropped to $10, and I enjoyed that game quite a bit. I feel it was worth it to buy it. I am (somewhat) happy to purchase a game made in AGS, as long as it is actually a good game and of a higher quality than free games made in AGS available at the time. 'The Adventures of Fatman' had a full speech pack, and for me that was what seperated it from other AGS games enough to be worth my money. However, I am not so certain I would pay for Fatman today as Apprentice 1 Deluxe also has full speech, even if it is a bit buggy at times and the puzzles and dialogue are of a high quality. The length of the game would be the main seperating factor in this case.

The only other adventure game I have purchased over the internet is Samorost 2, which I thought was worth it due to it's extremely high-quality graphics and the general experience recieved from playing the game.

[Squinky]

Man, I am totally for people making their games commercial....It's just I was against the certain author that I mentioned before.

I have, and probably most of us, have thought of making a commercial game. It's just one of those childhood dreams really...If i ever tried it I would do it knowing people would be bitchy with me, and I would almost go so far as to release it under an alias...

The only way I would do it would be with a team of a few people, and I would want to do a full box and manuals and the whole deal. No matter what I'd give people something to read on the can...This probably isn't economically sound....but still....

And I agree with andail about there being some pricless amatuer games out there, that never would have happened if the creators were worried about quality...

[Ionias]

I have, and probably most of us, have thought of making a commercial game. It's just one of those childhood dreams really...If i ever tried it I would do it knowing people would be bitchy with me, and I would almost go so far as to release it under an alias...

You see this is just the problem. You add money and people start moaning, yet they'll glady plunk down hard earned cash for McDonalds or a trip to the movies.

I'm all for commercial games myself. I know that was my dream all along. The one you've mentioned above. Yah know? Make money, maybe even enough to support yourself or your dream doing what you love. It may even be possible, who knows. Don't give up if that's what you really want, but just remember ... when its a job its a lot less fun and lot more work.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

Hey Squinky, once I'm done TGTTPOACS, we should totally make a commercial game together, seeing as I'm just as much of a sucker for great game documentation as you are. We could call our team "Squinky & Squinky". That'd be priceless.

I'm all for commercial games myself. I know that was my dream all along. The one you've mentioned above. Yah know? Make money, maybe even enough to support yourself or your dream doing what you love. It may even be possible, who knows. Don't give up if that's what you really want, but just remember ... when its a job its a lot less fun and lot more work.

Agreed.

[MillsJROSS]

You see this is just the problem. You add money and people start moaning, yet they'll glady plunk down hard earned cash for McDonalds or a trip to the movies.

Exactly. I could easily spend 20 dollars on a dinner and a movie, without blinking an eye. I think AGS made adventure games can turn a profit. They need to be a great quality game, for one. But also, most of selling would consist of going to other communities and trying to get your name out. The average age of AGSers hovers around 20, I'd imagine. Because of this, the AGS community isn't an ideal place for selling your games, because many of us are in a situation where it's food or games.

Also...we're spoiled. By that I mean, the industry has been pushing for games to become longer and longer, and because of this, if a commercial adventure game isn't on an epicly long scale, people don't want to play. This makes it difficult for amatuer developers. If you look at some older games, like KQ, the games are relatively short. I could beat the first one within an hour, knowing what to do. Wheras, a game today, even if I didn't listen to all the dialog, might take three or four hours, with knowledge beforehand. I'm not really saying lenght is a bad thing...I'm justing pointing out some of the problems with trying to make your own commercial games.

The great thing about making free games is that the author is free to do what he/she wants. They can insult whomever they want. They can be as raunchy and lude as they want. They can spell as bad as they want. They can be as creative as they want. It is because of this, that has lead to some very entertaining games that couldn't be produced commercial, but are just as good in their own right. I don't think commercial games ruin this...and I think people will always be making games for themselves and for free.

-MillsJROSS

[Squinky]

Squinky, (it's odd typing that) That would be wacky and cool....But maybe play my games first...heh. They are pretty amateur. Might rethink that offer then....

Also, I think we both know if we work on the same game/occupy the same space/or other cliche's we will cause a disorder in the space time continuem and possibly kill every single damn Kangaroo on this Kangaroo dependant planet...

But god, I hate how they don't put cool crap in games nowadays. You open up a box you just paid 50 bucks for and find a paper slip with a cd or two in it, with maybe a website reference or a one page installation guide. Screw that! I want a cool-ass map (if applicable) and a nifty manaul with cool art and maybe some short storys. I espically love games that make you really need that documentation (like Zack McKracken, it had a newpaper in it and I think an acme catalouge....It was awesome, I have a sweet idea for a game that comes with a tabloid giving hints to the player....but it will probably never happen).

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You've shattered my hopes of professional game design Squinky...You won't buy my games because I can't include cool stuff like the cloth map for Might and Magic something.  :'(
Would a lollipop suffice?  Sucker!

[simulacra]

I don't think it's a good idea to try to compete with the Hollywood of games. They'll just outresource you, and sell people a longer game with 3D graphics and whatnot (except cool print supplements). You need to compete with them in areas where they are weak to provide something that is so different that it's worth it. I am talking niche games here. What about it?

[Elliott Hird]

Squinky, not that one but the latest posting one () Can't be worse than cubert badbone! (Joke.)

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

I don't think it's a good idea to try to compete with the Hollywood of games. They'll just outresource you, and sell people a longer game with 3D graphics and whatnot (except cool print supplements). You need to compete with them in areas where they are weak to provide something that is so different that it's worth it. I am talking niche games here. What about it?

Scratchware is what we need. Shorter, less technologically-advanced games for a fraction of the price of AAA titles.

[Ionias]

I espically love games that make you really need that documentation (like Zack McKracken, it had a newpaper in it and I think an acme catalouge....It was awesome, I have a sweet idea for a game that comes with a tabloid giving hints to the player....but it will probably never happen).

Already been done my good man.

Space Quest 4-6 all had a tabloid paper that gave hints about the game. It was mostly a copyright protection gimmick, but it had some funny stuff. Space Quest 2-3 had comic books and even Space Quest 1 had a few coupons. I wanted to include a comic and have a boxed game of Fatman, but the costs are insane. The reason is you have to order in bulk and that's a large hunk of cash to lay down on the line if it doesn't sell.

... boy I'm quite the pessimist eh? Mr C. is right lets dance!

*Ionias does the jig.

[mwahahaha]

Nah, I've never paid for one, but I plan on making a bit of cash by selling my game at my school for a price for around AU$10, with a few extras, on a disk.  But it'll still be free on the net, just secretly to my idiotic game hungry schoolmates.  MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Snarky]

I agree with Andail that it would be a shame if a commercialization of the AGS community meant that we wouldn't get the quirky, personal, unpolished gems that have no money-earning potential whatsoever.

However, I don't think there's any risk of that happening. As long as AGS remains free to use, I'm sure people will continue to make their own crazy, dopey games. Commercial/scratchware AGS games would be in addition to the general, free games.

In order to make enough money to make it worth the effort, your game would have to be quite popular, so I think you'd mainly see the more experienced, ambitious, already semi-professional designers (the ones who win AGS Awards) move towards charging for their games, with now and then a one-time attempt by others.

The reasons I think this would be a good thing include that it would push the most disciplined creators up another level towards more professional efforts (the way it seems to have pushed Tierra/AGDI/Himalaya Studios), give people an incentive to publicize their games more and maybe that way bring more people to the community, and provide something of a bridge from creating games as a hobby to doing it as a career, which would benefit both the industry and the hobby.