Adventure Game Studio

Community => Adventure Related Talk & Chat => Topic started by: PureGhostGR on Thu 23/10/2003 18:03:32

Title: Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: PureGhostGR on Thu 23/10/2003 18:03:32
Probably this is something that has been previously debated, but since the search engine doesn't show up anything, I'll go right ahead and ask.

Is there a team working on a sequel of Loom?

I've been searching for one for such a long time, but nothings comes up.

From what I read the game is a fav. with many, so how come nobody has tried making something?

Is there a "Copyright" restriction by Lucasarts?

Just a question really..
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Privateer Puddin' on Thu 23/10/2003 18:08:40
well, Lucasarts might have a copyright on Loom 2 as well as Loom as they were making a sequel at one time ;)
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: scotch on Thu 23/10/2003 18:09:35
The game is popular, but not quite as popular as many other adventures.. there aren't a really big amount of remakes made with ags (well, successful ones anyway)  I can't remember a loom fan game being started..

Copyright isn't a big concern to most people here.. the game is old, lucasarts haven't shut down FoY or any other AGS remake yet.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: MrColossal on Thu 23/10/2003 22:57:26
as far as my information tells me there was a sequel to Loom planned called Forge

as far as my information tells me there isn't anyone working on a sequel

and please please please no one do it!

thank you

eric
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: PureGhostGR on Thu 23/10/2003 23:41:46
MrColossal you wouldn't happen to have a link on that? (forge)

search engine only gives me a broken link.

.. can I ask why you don't want one? I would love to play it. (provided it is the right stuff)..

Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 00:17:08
The odds on it being the right stuff are small.

And if the maker has the qualities to make it the right stuff, they'd be much better invested in their own work rather than reducing themselves to leeching off another's.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: foz on Fri 24/10/2003 00:25:33
I thought loom was shit.......worst lucas arts game i`ve played.....

....i would`nt play a loom fan game......

Unless it was nothing like loom.......

Maybe you could make a game called ....LOON.....or BROOM........or WOMB......

I dunno ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my brain hurts.......,////////,,,,,,,,,07000055559
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 00:45:14
Forge was cancelled years ago and is in all likelihood never going to happen.

I loved Loom, it's one of my favorite LEC adventures (which pretty much makes it one of my favorite adventures of any kind).  I thought it was a brilliant and very well-written game.  I actually wouldn't mind a fan sequel, as long as it was done by people who know what they're doing.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: MrColossal on Fri 24/10/2003 00:45:16
pureghost

as las said, if someone has the ability to make a good loom sequel why not make a good original game anyway and leave the game as it is?

not that i think anyone would be able to do it without being silly [especially to recreate anything as close to the awesomeness that the game had, the creation myth mostly]

i also don't remember where i heard the whole Forge thing it was a while ago that i learned of it

eric

best i can do:

http://www.sebelinteractive.de/scummvm/manual/man_scummvm_morphos-19.html
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: big brother on Fri 24/10/2003 03:13:07
Loom was clever, innovative, and stand-alone, definitely top ten on my list.

I don't think that anyone could make a sequel (or prequel) with comparative story or execution.

The story doesn't really have room for a sequel anyways.

Just out of curiousity, has everyone played the 256 color VGA version? Outstanding.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 24/10/2003 03:16:39
Make Boom... as hinted in SQ4!111!! GL0RY!1!

And there's Shroom!, which in fact was an short short AGS demo!1!


Seriously though, if you're really interested, just make whatever you like, but remember Loom is a game unique to it own, so it may not be that easy to create a game compariable with its originality, playability, etc. just by mocking it.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 03:17:54
Well, I think Loom did set itself up for a sequel of sorts, but you'd have to REALLY know what you're doing to take it on.  And big brother: definitely in my top 10 as well.  Very unique, excellent game.

I have never played the VGA version.  I'm always looking on Ebay though for an original boxed copy that doesn't reach astronomical prices.  CD-only auctions are common but I'm a sucker for boxes ;)  I hear the VGA release has full voice.  Is this true?  If so, I want to play it even more.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 03:21:47
Yes, and since it was so early a talkie game, all the audio is in CD Audio format.

Which means several things.
1) The quality is very good, and since characters can talk over each other etc. it sounds much more natural.
2) You can put the CD in your CD player and listen to the whole dialogue.
3)There wasn't enough space on the CD, so some dialogue was cut and, in Gilbert's words, "towards the end they're talking like they have a gun to their head".

However, it's absolutely wonderful.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 24/10/2003 03:25:58
I think a boxed version of it was quite rare, I think the Loom CDs were mostly released as boxless bundle versions (like mine).

And yes, 256 colour CD version has full CD audio voice, and won't need a soundcard to run (won't need, and won't use either). It has beautiful backgrounds and (sorta) high quality voice castings, but due to the lack of experience in CD game creation at that time (it's one of the earlier CDROM games, I remembered buying it when I got my 1X CDROM Drive, and I didn't have a soundcard at that time), there're some incompleteness compared to the original versions (which I had typed many times in the old forums and I don't want to repeat) but still, it's a nice thingie to collect.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 03:37:59
Ah, interesting.  Why don't more games use CD audio for voices?  Is it a space issue and it's just outdated?  One thing I've always hated about voice acting in games is that even when one character cuts another off (as in "Hey, now you just--" "Shut up!") there's a big old pause that really destroys the effect.  It would seem to me that this wouldn't be an issue with CD audio.  I guess in adventure games with multiple dialogue choices it would be tough, though.  I suppose the main issue is space.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 24/10/2003 03:59:57
Yes indeed, the voice actings in Loom were actually quite good and lifelike -- in the first half of the game.

The problem was that a CD can only hold a maximum of somewhat 70 minutes of CD audio, there are lots of sacrifices in that game:
1. In game pure BG music tracks were mostly absent, as most space was already used for speech, so you wont hear the fabulous Swamlake music 90% of the time (in cutscenes the speeches were recorded alongside with BGMs, but there're NO standalone ingame  BGM).
2. Starting from the second half of the game, prolly they realized the lack of space while dubbing, most of the dialogs were rushed to finished, so it'll be like you're hearing people speaking quickly, like someone is pointing a gun on their backs, and that the cutscenes runs like they're in fastforward mode to shorten it's durations, not to mention that they changed many lines of dialogs to shorten them, which rendered the story unclear.
3. Even the "CDEFABC" tones were recorded tone by tone in Cd audio
4. because of HW restrictions, there can only be one CD track playing at one time, so if you trigger something that would play a sound/speech/etc (eg cast a spell, see 3), the previously sound in play would be cut abruptly...
5. The game runs on CD, and they're not very good in organizing resources, stuffs (BG, character graphics, etc) were loaded into your comp.'s memory only when they're needed, so even in a cutscene, it's often time you'll hear skips in sound (as they have to load CD data, which cut the sound being playing)
6. Since cutscene voices were recorded and mixed into some nonflexible format (remember only one channel at one time), at least one spell which in the original game may differ each time you played the game had now its tone fixed in every game in the CD version :p

And not to mention the other scrafices, such as the lazy artists won't want to convert everything into 256 colours, so 90% of the character close-ups were removed  >:( (though the small character animations added weren't bad...)
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 04:42:47
Ah, well some of that is rather disappointing.  However, since I've already played and enjoyed the standard version, anything else is just extra enjoyment, so I'm still going to try to hunt it down.  I'm curious if nothing else.  And thanks for all the info, Gil. :)
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 05:38:40
Yeah, I forgot about the loss of the closeups, that was dissapointing.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 05:44:39
This is kind of OT, but since we're on the subject of Loom anyway...  Probably doesn't need spoiler tags, but just in case:

Spoiler
I heard that if you play the game on the highest difficulty level, you get to see Bobbin's face when you're in the castle.  I played through the game on the hardest difficulty, but never saw anything like that.  Is this just a rumour, or have I done something wrong?
[close]
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 24/10/2003 06:23:13
Spoiler
As far as I remember, that it's not really you will see bobbin's face, but at least some extra animations with someone (I forgot the name) want to see bobbin's face, which I can confirmed as I had played the (Japanese) PCE CD version.

To be honest, I never played the original HDD/Floppy version so I cant tell.

For the PC CD version, though I had played it MANY times, but I didn't play it recently, so i can't remember, but according to Plum, that there're NO difference in that scene for the CD version with regard to difficulty levels, probably because they have to sync the CD audio tracks so don't want to make different versions...
[close]
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 06:27:58
Spoiler
Well, the guy who was supposed to be keeping an eye on Bobbin touches him and is destroyed.  Is that an extra animation or is it in all the versions?  If it's not, then I can't imagine what the extra animation is.  If it is, how does he die in the non-expert mode?  I have never played non-expert (at least not past the first island) because I am a musician and I like the challenge.
[close]
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 06:32:49
In the non expert modes the camera (so to speak) is on the head cleric dude on the balcony when Bobbin removes his hood, and there's a scream from inside. Then it cuts back and Bobbin is alone and he says "I said if he was afraid of nothing he shouldn't look", which implies the weavers are just eyes insides hoods....

But in the CD version, it's the touch and dissapear version on all difficulties.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 06:51:08
Ah, ok.  So I DID get the extra thing.  Thanks, Las.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: AGA on Fri 24/10/2003 13:22:05
/me gouges people.

Loom was awful, the interface totally ruined what could have otherwise been an alright adventure game.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 14:18:14
How so?  ??? I thought the interface was excellent.  I loved the fact that they pulled off an adventure with no inventory management.  There were no extraneous factors.  All you had do "interface" with was the distaff, which made total sense in the context of the game.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: AGA on Fri 24/10/2003 14:19:24
I guess I'm just used to 'traditional' adventure GUIs. I just really didn't like the using magic spells to accomplish things.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Meowster on Fri 24/10/2003 19:29:07
Oh sure. I tried to make a Loom Sequel, but I couldn't think of the backgrounds. I mean, I had the core, "LOOM SUCKS" embedded into every background image, but I couldn't think of stuff to build AROUND it.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Anym on Fri 24/10/2003 22:19:37
I think the interface was one of the best things of Loom. I wish more games would try to be creative. I liked the way there were more solutions to a puzzle by using different spells, and that spells would also work backwards.

On a second thought, perhaps it's a good thing that most games don't try to be "creative", but a creative approach that actually works well is nice to have every once in a while.

Some way other than pen & paper to keep track of the spells would have been nice tough.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 22:22:36
The boxed CD came with a special book of threads to write them in, as well as little historical notes about each of them.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Anym on Fri 24/10/2003 22:39:57
I know. I DO have it. Were you implying otherwise? :o I still have use a pencil, don't I? And as the game randomizes the spells in every game, you might want to use one with a soft tip. :-\

I even liked the fact that not all spells known to the Guild (and mentioned in the booklet) appear in the game.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 24/10/2003 23:15:11
I really liked having to write down the drafts myself, actually.  It made me feel like I was more immersed into the game world.  In many ways I prefer it to newer adventures which automatically record codes and numbers for you.  Since it was a LucasArts game, you could never get stuck because you forgot to write one down; there was always another opportunity.  If Sierra made Loom, it probably would have been insane, but to me the end result was a masterpiece.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Mon 27/10/2003 02:14:58
Quote from: Las Naranjas on Fri 24/10/2003 22:22:36
The boxed CD came with a special book of threads to write them in, as well as little historical notes about each of them.

Well the boxless bundle version included all these stuffs too, just not the box.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Mon 27/10/2003 05:19:58
I was under the impression that the version that came with sound cards and was apparently the most widely distributed didn't come with it.

Oh well.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: magintz on Wed 29/10/2003 20:01:19
I've never played loom but from what I've heard it sounds pretty good. I downloaded Spyros' template of Loom and thought that everything was so original.

Someone mentioned FoY, well thats an individual project that has original art, plot and story, the only thing they've used is the name Indiana Jones, and considering its a non-profit fan creation I can't see why not. It's no different from a fan site, fan art, fan music or fan story, so why should the fact that it's a game make it any different from the above?
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: LucasFan on Thu 30/10/2003 14:10:33
QuoteHas anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?

"My favourite was Loom. I thought it was an incredible product. I wanted to buy the rights from them to do a sequel, but never did."

Ken Williams
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 31/10/2003 01:59:52
I don't know, but sorta think that the world in Torin's Passage was a bit inspired by Loom.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Fri 31/10/2003 02:34:32
I always wanted to play Torin's Passage.  When it came out, the graphics blew me away but at the time I didn't have any spare cash and I never got around to buying it.  From what I've heard, it's certainly no classic but it seems like it's worth a look.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Nacho on Sat 01/11/2003 17:23:25
Quote from: big brother on Fri 24/10/2003 03:13:07
Loom was clever, innovative, and stand-alone, definitely top ten on my list.

I don't think that anyone could make a sequel (or prequel) with comparative story or execution.

The story doesn't really have room for a sequel anyways.

Just out of curiousity, has everyone played the 256 color VGA version? Outstanding.


Ditto all... Loom is not very loved by the mass publis, but I really loved the athmosphere, and the VGA version is supperb.

I thought on doing a sequel, but I don´t really know to copy the early 90´s Lucas style... BTW, I have the storyline somewhere, if anybody is interested...
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Las Naranjas on Sat 01/11/2003 22:47:00
Remixor - there's a ripped CD version there http://oldgames.bgbest.net/look.php?&what=adventure&from=200 if you've given up on legitimate avenues. I haven't downloaded it though.
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Hinders on Mon 03/11/2003 14:55:31
I have the cd-version of loom ;D
Can´t get past the copy-protection :P
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: Gilbert on Tue 04/11/2003 02:29:13
Copy protection? There's no copy protection in teh CD version as far as I remember (there's probably one in the HDD version).
Title: Re:Has anyone tried a "Loom" Sequel fangame?
Post by: remixor on Tue 04/11/2003 02:40:16
There's protection in my HDD version, but it came with the old '92 LEC adventure pack, and there's a sort of built-in official crack.  The protection is still there, but it works no matter what you put in.