Kickstarter Link: Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption)
Oh please no... (wrong)
Quote from: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Tue 02/10/2012 04:28:00
Oh please no... (wrong)
If it helps, the page says very specifically that the new game is not going to be a Quest for Glory sequel, and will be very different from those games.
Quote from: AGA on Tue 02/10/2012 08:37:47
If it helps, the page says very specifically that the new game is not going to be a Quest for Glory sequel, and will be very different from those games.
...because they don't own the trademark to that series, I'm sure. Pull the other one :P
Well, reading the description it does sound quite unlike QfG. However it's set in the same universe, and is made by the same people, so I'm sure it will feel a lot like QfG did, at least in certain ways.
Yes - while they don't own the QFG games, the Coles do own the rights to Glorianna, Silmaria and other names and places in the QFG world. However, this appears to be more of a top-down RPG. We'll see more when the kickstarter gets closer, I'm sure.
Bt
In that case I suppose I can wait and see. I'm really unimpressed by all these established designers falling on the kickstarter crutch, though. I find it a bit tacky when real startup groups who couldn't possibly get funding for what they're doing from publishers now have to compete with Al Lowe and Jane Jensen.
Quote from: AGA on Tue 02/10/2012 08:37:47
If it helps, the page says very specifically that the new game is not going to be a Quest for Glory sequel, and will be very different from those games.
Michael Cole, Director of Marketing for Transolar Entertainment, posted a message about the new game on GOG.com:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/quest_for_glory_kickstarter_maybe_coming/post50
"In terms of game play, it'll have two major parts: The school part which revolves around character interaction and puzzle solving. The catacombs part which is a rogue-like with tactical movement and skills built around exploiting enemies weaknesses."
Quote from: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Fri 05/10/2012 12:35:06
In that case I suppose I can wait and see. I'm really unimpressed by all these established designers falling on the kickstarter crutch, though. I find it a bit tacky when real startup groups who couldn't possibly get funding for what they're doing from publishers now have to compete with Al Lowe and Jane Jensen.
I disagree.
People who want to raise money at Kickstarter
should have experience. They
should have successful work history. They
should have track records. They
should have done something similar before and succeeded. They
should know what they are doing. They
should have already paid their due. So now they are looking for money to do their own projects. They have paid their dues, so now they deserve to get the money to finally pursue their dream projects.
I hate when people with no experience, no history, no background, who have not yet picked up any work experience or paid their due, just come out of nowhwere and then think they can use Kickstarter to hit people for money. Personally, when I donate money to a Kickstarter project, the first thing I look at is at the resumes of the people who are asking for the money. Who are they? What are their industry history and work experience? Do they have experience in doing anything similar? Hve they ever successful released a product in the same field? If they are just a bunch of (let say) young punk kids with no experience, who look at Kickstarter is just a way for them to skip work so they do not have to do a day of honest work to get to success, (now that's what really
is tacky,) they can forget it. I know I am not the only one who would not give a dime to those kind of people.
That is why people like Tim Schafer, Brian Fargo, Al Lowe, and indie studios like Double Fine, Obsidian Entertainment, inXile, were able to raise millions of dollars on Kickstarter to fund their dream projects without having to answer to publishers or follow the profit-motivated parameters set by financiers. People who should not be on Kickstarter and who do not deserve to get any donations are green kids who has no experience, no work history, no track records, and are just hitting people for money because they think they should not do a day of real work before they get their break.
Sure, there's some freeloaders out there, "green kids" as you put it, who slap together a piss-poor Kickstarter, and you know what - those projects usually fail. There's been some big names (David Crane) who slapped together a pretty poor Kickstarter and went out and failed too.
Not everyone who's out there using Kickstarter is there to avoid "a day of real work before they get their break". The genuinely have no avenue or interest from professional publishers. There's a few Kickstarters out there being run by people who could get a professional publisher to back them (And have, in the past, with nary a problem cashing their paychecks, either) but instead choose Kickstarter. (I don't think the Cole's project, however, would generate much interest from a publisher. I have no problem with them trying to run a decent campaign.)
Jensen's Kickstarter, however - take a look at it. When it started, there wasn't even a clear project to be made. It was started as "Pinkerton Road"... funding for a company, which is a no-no according to KS guidelines. Only during the KS they announced they were doing Moebius. And then, to add to it, they said - in the middle of taking fans money - that a publisher had signed them on for a "secret game". So, the double dipping kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
This model cannot sustain companies - these million dollar Kickstarters simply cannot go on.
Bt
Yeah, while I am happy at (some of) these companies/people who are coming up with stuff related to these old games we love, technically, the whole POINT of these kickstarter/indiegogo websites is innovative unknowns getting funding for ideas you think are great, NOT established names in the industry trying to get us nostalgic for something from 15 years ago.
Yeah, I just checked out Jane Jensen's Kickstarter video. That's a very shady pitch. And they clearly do not need money -- just look at their estate in the background! Why were they even asking for donations?!? Hot daughter, tho.
Tom Hall (of Ion Storm fame/infamy) is also running another Kickstarter. Very underwhelming as well, with no clear sense of what he actually intends to do. As I remember it, a decade a go Ion Storm blew away investors' money on luxurious offices, weekly parties, expensive cars, fast women, and then the company went belly up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana#Reception_and_controversy
With that track record, now they are hitting people for money again? Seriously?
Of course, you do not have to give any money to anyone on Kickstarter; and you really should not give any money to Jane Jensen or Tom Hall. The point is: having a track record and an impressive resume is NOT enough. A fully-thought out goal and idea packaged with a good presentation should complement a good track record. BUT, a track record/resume is a starting point. I am old enough to know that a lot of people are great salesmen who can present a very persuasive pitch - but they can't deliver at all. The best way to recognize people who can talk but can't deliver is to check their history. An impressive resume is a starting point, but people should not invest money just by looking at the resume. Checking the resume/history is only the first step.
Yeah. In the pitch for "Old School RPG", John Romero shows up in it, driving a Hummer that cost more than we raised in our Kickstarter to make a whole game with a team of 15-20 people. It just makes me wince a little. There's little guys out there working hard to make good games, and being appreciative of every cent we raised, and being frugal and (hopefully) wise with what we've been given.
Bt
Quote from: ktchong on Sun 07/10/2012 02:05:14I am old enough to know that a lot of people are great salesmen who can present a very persuasive pitch - but they can't deliver at all.
Politicians are great at that.
At the end of the day, if people want to spend their money on something they will, if they don't, they won't. Right?
I think the reason the more established companies etc use kickstarters' is for the reason that these often 'original' projects wouldn't get funded otherwise. You would hope so anyway. Plus, you always get something in return for your money so there is little room to complain.
You could also use the 'digital age' argument, where by these platforms can be openly used by anyone, such as YouTube and the rest of them. Platforms that appear to start off as being for the 'average joe', but as we all know, the commercial world will dip it's finger in eventually.
As agent Smith would say: "It's inevitable, Mr Anderson."
Quote from: ktchong on Sun 07/10/2012 02:05:14
Tom Hall (of Ion Storm fame/infamy) is also running another Kickstarter. Very underwhelming as well, with no clear sense of what he actually intends to do. As I remember it, a decade a go Ion Storm blew away investors' money on luxurious offices, weekly parties, expensive cars, fast women, and then the company went belly up.
Tom Hall is going to make you his bitch :confused:
I will probably give them as much as I gave to Al and Josh, Scott and Mark or Tim and Ron to redeem myself for pirating Dr. Brain and Quest For Glory but I don't know if I will play the final product. The Quest For Glory universe is certainly more developed and engaging than King's Quest or Kyrandia, but without its iconic gameplay (which in my opinion is what makes the games some of the best RPGs in the video game medium) I don't know if it will be the same.
Quote from: ktchong on Sat 06/10/2012 05:57:37People who want to raise money at Kickstarter should have experience. They should have successful work history. They should have track records. They should have done something similar before and succeeded. They should know what they are doing. They should have already paid their due. So now they are looking for money to do their own projects. They have paid their dues, so now they deserve to get the money to finally pursue their dream projects.
I hate when people with no experience, no history, no background, who have not yet picked up any work experience or paid their due, just come out of nowhwere and then think they can use Kickstarter to hit people for money. Personally, when I donate money to a Kickstarter project, the first thing I look at is at the resumes of the people who are asking for the money. Who are they? What are their industry history and work experience? Do they have experience in doing anything similar? Hve they ever successful released a product in the same field? If they are just a bunch of (let say) young punk kids with no experience, who look at Kickstarter is just a way for them to skip work so they do not have to do a day of honest work to get to success, (now that's what really is tacky,) they can forget it. I know I am not the only one who would not give a dime to those kind of people.
I'm not sure it's possible for me to disagree with this more.
Kickstarter is the
perfect place for a person(s) with zero experience to get the chance to
gain that experience without having to deal with (get screwed by) an ignorant publisher who, in most cases, doesn't care about the game/art, they just want the revenue. I know, when it comes to my games/stories/etc., that I will [most likely]
NEVER sign-on and/or give the rights to a publisher. They are
mine and I'm not giving them up (like this new QfG game can't use certain aspects of the originals 'cause they don't own the rights... that's just simply ridiculous).
I think a lot of people are FINALLY waking up and realizing these greedy corporations are destroying the games market (and movies, music, etc).
Kickstarter is the perfect avenue for people like me (who have no "resume" or "experience" in the game development arena) to get our foot in the door and do what we're passionate about without having to sell our souls.
I much prefer seeing the unknown game developer start a kickstarter campaign and being successful.
Those are the people that should benefit from the possibilities that kickstarter provides. I'm happy to see the big-names from the past coming out with new games and using ks to fund them, but for me it's the unknowns getting their chance to
be known that is where kickstarter really shines.
It's a grand time to be an Indie Game Developer and Kickstarter is leading the way in making that possible.
I believe your two arguments are not mutually exclusive.
Darth is right, Kickstarter is for the tiny unknown guys. But ktchong is right in a way too, you don't need to be Tim, but you need a reputation, you must prove that, time and again, you're capable of bringing a project to completion, tested and polished, even if they're just small indie titles.
I can't speak for everyone but I've far too often stargazed and got emotionally involved with games on the WiP forum in my earlier years only to get burnt when the project got canned or the developer simply dropped off the face of the Earth. Nowadays, if you don't have a respectable track record as someone who can deliver a product from start to finish, chances are I'm not interested in your WiP.
Making a game from start to finish requires a passion of epic proportion, money help staying motivated when things get grindy and crunchy and the early fun part of game design is over, but money is much easier to give to people who proved they've got the passion than it is to people who have yet to prove anything about themselves.
I agree with this ^
Getting things to a complete state, regardless of size, is a tricky task.
I think you can still Kickstart in the absence of a history, so long as the evidence you provide in the pitch demonstrates the care and attention required to getting something done.
I've backed fifteen projects so far... and this (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1338986832/sealark-an-oceanic-adventure-game) is the only one that either hasn't had an almost complete product, a demonstration or a track history of completing stuff. And man, what a pitch... the love that's already gone into this thing, you can easily see it's not the money the creator is after, it's just the chance to make something beautiful.
And that's how you tell the difference...
(although a gallon of gorgeous pixel art also helps in my case...)
My main worry is that kickstarter is going to turn into a self-publishing nirvana for has-been and decrepit developers from the 80's and 90's who see it as an easy way around actually pitching their product to a publisher because -- let's face it -- many of them have fans so entrenched and desperate that they will throw money at them on the merest announcement of a game.. and if that is allowed to continue and prosper, you can be assured that they'll systematically push out neophyte designers with something actually new and innovative to offer because a new guy with a fresh idea cannot be expected to reasonably compete for funding against a Jane Jensen with old ideas and thousands and thousands of rabid followers...And yes, it is a competition because people have a finite number of funds to hand out to projects and the high-profile ones will naturally draw the most attention.
I don't see my statement as cynical as much as a scathing critique of designers who really could get their games sold if they were determined AND it was a good product. Charles Cecil tops my list with his Broken Sword bullshit. That guy undoubtedly has more capital than any 5 indie projects going right now.
A few weeks ago, Tom Hall and Brenda Brathwaite started a Kickstarter for "Old School RPG"... they had a $1,000,000 goal. I looked at their pedigree in the games world, which was fine - but I always thought the pitch was too vague, and the more I read, the more I thought it was a shoddy campaign. The Company they work for, Loot Drop, is owned by John Romero, for one... (I think I mentioned this earlier here...)
Well, the support really dropped off. Kicktraq has it trending to only raising 50% or so of it's goal now. Which is still $500,000.... that's a lot of dough to small indie developers, for sure.
I do get mad at established game veterans throwing together these shoddy Kickstarters.
Obsidian must have done something right, because they finished Project Eternity's KS with over $4,000,000 raised - beating DoubleFine Adventure.
Bt
To be fair, the Shaker pitch was no more vague than DoubleFine's pitch, really.
And Project Eternity? Backed the hell outta that thing. A group of people want to make the game that I want that group of people to make. That's worth my money.
Yeah, absolutely - Old School RPG was as vague as DoubleFine.... you know, though, I think that could only be done once, you know? Just because it worked for DoubleFine doesn't mean it will work for others. In fact, I don't think you'll ever see that again.
Yeah, Project Eternity was well managed, though I wonder if they could have gotten traditional funding, or they just wanted to be in charge of the whole enchilada themselves. I can understand that.
Bt
Thing is, and this is only few of the things that are "weak" here, is that they talk about old school RPG nut later it's described as a first person 3d EPG and the description of the story is lamey as well IMO.
On the other hand Project Eternitiy offered a lot of concept art and their description of the game IS an "old school RPG", but it's made with the influence of the old RPGs.
Double fine pitch was lame as all hell, but Schaffer has proven himself in adventure games and through time DF has proven as a company that keeps the spirit of his concepts with their original ideas and gameplay with every game they publish.
While on KS subject, using bad jokes in the videos is so damn annoying, I really don't know why everybody does it. (wtf)
You know what also struck me about Shaker (Old School RPG) was that they had most of their stretch goals up immediately - and one of them was "two RPGS" from one Kickstarter, if they reached $1.9 million....
First, odd idea - just make one great game. Second, I think it's odd to announce stretch goals so early - especially when you're already looking for a millions dollars. Makes you look a little... pompous and greedy? I dunno. Sits odd with me. I think it's better to announce any stretch goals once you've reached target.
Bt
Quote from: Anian on Thu 18/10/2012 15:44:19
Double fine pitch was lame as all hell, but Schaffer has proven himself in adventure games and through time DF has proven as a company that keeps the spirit of his concepts with their original ideas and gameplay with every game they publish.
I strongly disagree. That was one of the best pitches I ever saw and it concerned a great many things more than just the one game.
Also, the game itself was able to look so good without any specific info, because Schafer and Double Fine have enough personality and style on their own, and they used it perfectly for the advantage of this KS. More details about the project would possibly affect teh final sum raised negatively.
Quote from: Ascovel on Thu 18/10/2012 21:44:58I strongly disagree. That was one of the best pitches I ever saw and it concerned a great many things more than just the one game.
Also, the game itself was able to look so good without any specific info, because Schafer and Double Fine have enough personality and style on their own, and they used it perfectly for the advantage of this KS. More details about the project would possibly affect teh final sum raised negatively.
"Lame" was a poor choice of words, but it was veeery unspecific. There's obvious proof that the pitch was successful, I'm not arguing that at all, and yes more details could've possibly hurt it, like if he said "Game is about a space pilot who has to save an alien planet" or something, some people would certainly say "Oh, well I don't want to play a space pilot." Nevertheless my point was that no matter how abstract a more specific pitch would've been or how crazy it would've sounded, kickstarter would have succeeded. Not many authors you can say that about, apparently including Hall and Brathwaite.
Quote from: blueskirt on Mon 08/10/2012 19:50:50
I believe your two arguments are not mutually exclusive.
Darth is right, Kickstarter is for the tiny unknown guys. But ktchong is right in a way too, you don't need to be Tim, but you need a reputation, you must prove that, time and again, you're capable of bringing a project to completion, tested and polished, even if they're just small indie titles.
I'd back this up. Somebody like, say, Yahtzee who has made several games and proven he has a grasp over writing and design and could do something with a budget and wouldn't want to go through a publisher could benefit from Kickstarter. (Yes, his internet fan base would help a lot too) Dave Gilbert would be another example, or the guys who made Slender. The mega success of Chris Avellone and Tim Schafer is because they have such big fanbases and they react strongly to the fact that a designer they love and respect cannot make the game they want to make.
You can give money to people with no track record, no experience, no reputation, and no history of ever successfully completing and delivering a project. It's your money. But you'd be an idiot to do so.
So far, there have been a few failed Kickstarter projects. People who got money from Kickstarters, and then folded and failed to deliver. ALL were people with no prior experience, no reputation, no history, and had nothing to lose except other people's money.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/30/when-kickstarter-fails-jack-houston-has-a-problem/
The most important thing here is REPUTATION. People with no experience also do not have no established reputation. If you want to throw away your money at some random people with no experience and no reputation, that's fine with me. It's not my money. Butt I would not give a dime to people who has no track record and no reputation. Here are the discussions, and people agree: do NOT give money to people with no track record, no experience, and no history of ever making/delivering a similar product:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/first_successfully_funded_kickstarter_game_that_wont_be_finished_nor_released
The point is: if you launch a Kickstarter, you're just a random stranger on the Internet. I don't know you. I don't know if you are capable of delivering your promise. There are millions of people who want free money just like you. Why should I trust you over anyone else with my money? How do I know I should give my money to you who have no experience, no reputation and not Lori and Corey Cole, Brian Fargo, Tim Schafer or Obsidian? People whom I know can deliver because they have built up a reputation, because they have done it before? If they can't deliver, they lose their reputation, and people who have spent years building up successful track records and resumes CARE about protecting their reputation.
If some random guy with no history can't deliver, he lose nothing except other people's money. I am old enough to know there are a lot of losers out there who don't have any reputation and they could care less about protecting what they don't have once they already got your money, and they would love to get your money, and Kickstarter is just another way for them to pitch empty promises and swindle money. Those are the people to whom you do NOT want to give your money.
I cannot (and will not) get into a debate as far as, "it's my money I'll spend it how I want" because, yeah duh, obviously.
But the ENTIRE point of Kickstarter is to provide unknown creatives the outlet to BE KNOWN. To develop a reputation without selling their souls to a publisher. KS is very clear in their guidelines and expressly state, "On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it." While it's not an "investment" in the strictest sense of the word it is in the sense that you're taking a [potential] risk in backing (giving your money to) somebody who might not have a reputation in the games industry. How else do you get a reputation in the games industry (or any industry) except by making a game!!1!
Sure there are some scumbags that abuse the system and just take the money and run. The world is full of dishonest people like that. Why would KS be any different or any less a victim to these types of scammers?
I don't look at it as just another outlet of the games industry (or just another publisher). I look at it as a place to find "passion" projects that I'd like to see come to fruition. If somebody (a fellow creative) is working on something that peaks my interest I throw some coin their way.
That, to me, is what KS is all about.
There's different levels of track records, as well. It really all depends on the goal amount, what they present in the pitch, and how the creators present themselves. There's room for Kickstarter's of all sizes - but there have been some with outrageous goals, and weak initial pitches - ie. Shaker: An Old School RPG (Which started out as just "Old School RPG by Tom Hall and Brenda Bathwaite") or David Crane's Jungle Adventure. Established names, yes - weak pitches.
On a personal level, I like Hero-U's pitch and presentation - and I look forward to seeing how their Kickstarter progresses. I am a backer.
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne on Sat 20/10/2012 16:55:13There's room for Kickstarter's of all sizes - but there have been some with outrageous goals, and weak initial pitches - ie. Shaker: An Old School RPG (Which started out as just "Old School RPG by Tom Hall and Brenda Bathwaite") or David Crane's Jungle Adventure. Established names, yes - weak pitches.
I had never even heard of Tom Hall and Brenda Bathwaite before their Kickstarter. I was put off by them claiming credit for Ultima, the Bard's Tale, the Sims, and a few other games that I knew had nothing to do with them. I was familiar with Origin System and Interplay, and I did not know of Tom Hall or Brenda Bathwaite. (I googled them and found out they worked Sir-Tech, which was a competing company.) That gave me the impression that they padded their rasumes/track records with games that were not theirs, and that dishonesty put me off.
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,891/
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,6264/
I don't think they need to pad their resumes. You may not have heard of them but they've been making great games for 20-30 years.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Fri 19/10/2012 21:18:25
I cannot (and will not) get into a debate as far as, "it's my money I'll spend it how I want" because, yeah duh, obviously.
But the ENTIRE point of Kickstarter is to provide unknown creatives the outlet to BE KNOWN. To develop a reputation without selling their souls to a publisher. KS is very clear in their guidelines and expressly state, "On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it." While it's not an "investment" in the strictest sense of the word it is in the sense that you're taking a [potential] risk in backing (giving your money to) somebody who might not have a reputation in the games industry. How else do you get a reputation in the games industry (or any industry) except by making a game!!1!
It shouldn't be necessary to point this out on the AGS Forums, but there are ways to make games, build a track record and a reputation without funding. I'm perfectly happy with relative unknowns launching campaigns, and I agree that that's more in the spirit of KS than professionals using it as a no-risk way to raise millions of dollars. But I do think anyone who seriously expects others to pay them for prospective work should be able to point to something they've done that gives an idea of what they can (or
that they can) deliver.
The same goes for films, music, comics, etc. If you are talented, keen, and serious about it, you should already have stuff you can show. If it's your first time out, you have no idea in advance of whether you're any good at it, and it's unfair to ask strangers to fund you finding out.
You should have seen ktchong go off about Tom Hall and Brenda Bathewaite's pedigree in an other forums I saw. I seriously think a vein is going to pop in his forehead.
Yeah - the two game creators have a past. With some great games they have worked on! No doubt - just, the pitch sucked. It was vague. I mean, it'd be the same as if some dude who worked on "Rygar" said "Old School 2D Platformer!" $1,000,000 budget!
I do like to try to find smaller, more interesting projects to fund on Kickstarter. A few months ago, I pledged to "Super Retro Squad" by Exploding Rabbit. What did they do? Just a free game called "Super Mario Crossover" which was a nostalgic fun mashup of some NES games. No other track record than that; Super Retro Squad is much like that, only with Intellectual Property and Characters they own. They had a modest goal - I think it was like $10,000 and they smashed it, raising $50,000+.
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne on Sun 21/10/2012 15:47:31
You should have seen ktchong go off about Tom Hall and Brenda Bathewaite's pedigree in an other forums I saw. I seriously think a vein is going to pop in his forehead.
I went off on Brenda Bathewaite and Tom Hall because their Kickstarter was a dishonest and misleading money grab. Their Kickstarter claimed credit for games in which they did NOT have major contributions, i.e., Ultima, the Bard's Tale, the Sims. They were padding their resumes with projects with which they had nothing or little to do.
Brenda Bathwaite and Tom Hall had worked on many games, but they had headed only one RPG each, i.e., two RPG together, Wizardry 8 and Anachronox. I know they were good games, (although I did not enjoyed Anachronox,) but they were not bestsellers. Few people are familiar with them. Very few people had played them. I personally do not think those two titles were not enough for them to ask for $1 million to make another RPG. I was proven right because their Kickstarter had failed to raise even half of that amount. (Their Kickstarter is dead.)
They may have made a lot of games, but
not RPG. "Brenda Bathwaite" and "Tom Hall" are
not brand names in the RPG communities (like "Richard Garriott", "Brian Fargo", "Feargus Urquhart", "Jordan Weisman", "Casey Hudson", "BioWare", "Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian" are,) and they were asking RPG fans for a lot of money. That was their big mistake.
Hey, I think the campaign was shoddy, too. I just thought you were going to burst a blood vessel, man!
You know, lesson learned here - be more honest about what you've done, don't over-hype yourselves, and be more modest in a budget.
Bt
If Brenda Bathwaite and Tom Hall plan to do another Kickstarter:
They should NOT list Ultima, the Bard's Tale, the Sims or any other projects in which they had very little contributions or did not have a leadership role.
They need to mock up a sample gameplay video, which should not be difficult to do because they have a company of programmers.
I personally would not give any money to the designers of Wizardry 8 and Anachronox, because I have never played one and did not enjoy the other. However, I would give a bit to people who have worked on Jagged Alliance, a series I enjoyed. It would have been more credible for Brenda Bathwaite to claim credit for Jagged Alliance I and II because she worked for Sir-Tech at the time. But I would not give any money who I felt was dishonest by claiming credits for games in which they did not have a leadership role; I know neither worked for Origin System or Interplay at the time, and there was no way they could have any major capacity in those companies. Again, it actually hurt them to credit Ultima, Bard's Tale, the Sims and other games in their Kickstarter, because it set off a red flag in people's heads, "wait... Brenda Bathwaite and Tom Hall did not work for Origin System or Interplay."
Quote from: ktchong on Tue 23/10/2012 03:47:32They should NOT list Ultima, the Bard's Tale, the Sims or any other projects in which they had very little contributions or did not have a leadership role.
Does the assistant to the key grip (a tiny near insignificant role) that worked on Star Wars not have the right to claim he worked on Star Wars? Of course he does because he, you know,
worked on Star Wars. Sure he didn't design the X-Wing or coach David Prowse how to swing a lightsaber but he was still involved. So as to these game developers (which you seem to strongly dislike); even if all they did was consult on one tiny aspect of the game they can say they were involved (and put it on their resume). Even if the only part they worked on didn't make it into the final game they still
worked on the game.
This is just how it is (and should be).
And I think maybe you're forgetting one very important fact (in regards to people pimping themselves on Kickstarter)... I'm not sure of the
exact statistic here but I'd wager that, of all the people viewing that Kickstarter campaign, 99.9% had never heard of either Bathwaite or Hall. And even that tiny fraction of people who had heard of them, 99.9% would have had NO IDEA that they didn't actually work for COMPANY X in 1992.
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 21/10/2012 10:07:07It shouldn't be necessary to point this out on the AGS Forums, but there are ways to make games, build a track record and a reputation without funding. I'm perfectly happy with relative unknowns launching campaigns, and I agree that that's more in the spirit of KS than professionals using it as a no-risk way to raise millions of dollars. But I do think anyone who seriously expects others to pay them for prospective work should be able to point to something they've done that gives an idea of what they can (or that they can) deliver.
Oh for sure there are
many other ways to make a game than by starting a money-grab on Kickstarter! I didn't mean to imply otherwise (though I can see how what I wrote might have).
I think it's all "situational" though.
In 2004 when I made my first (only) game I was working freelance and making just enough money to stay afloat. The net result was I had loads of free-time and I filled the hours by working on the game. Now, 8 years later, I'm working 3 jobs, have a house/mortgage, a girlfriend and [somewhat] of a social life. I
am working on a game (shhh!!) but I'm lucky, at this point, if I can put in 2 hours a week on it! So if I could launch a kickstarter and get backed 50k I could ditch those other jobs and focus on the game. While this is what I'd really love to do, the actual practicality of it is ... well ... it's just not gonna happen!
Oh but what a dream!! A dream that, realistically, can now actually happen with something like Kickstarter!
QuoteDoes the assistant to the key grip (a tiny near insignificant role) that worked on Star Wars not have the right to claim he worked on Star Wars? Of course he does because he, you know, worked on Star Wars.
I agree with this but only insofar as the credit
relates to the job at hand and is clearly specified. For instance, I don't think anyone cares that you produced an episode of Survivor if you're applying for a job as a customer service rep, so certainly any previous experience you plug should be
relevant. Otherwise you're just showboating unnecessary resume tidbits to draw attention to yourself. If the game design credits are related to the position you intend to fill in a kickstarter then by all means list it, but if all you did was hand some money to Lord British in 1982 and now you want to write and direct your own game I don't see any work-related experience there other than 'look at me, I funded a game in ye olde Brittania! Give me your money!'. Note that I'm not specifying anyone has done this, it was just an example.
Quote from: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Tue 23/10/2012 17:09:45...but if all you did was hand some money to Lord British in 1982 and now you want to write and direct your own game I don't see any work-related experience there other than 'look at me, I funded a game in ye olde Brittania! Give me your money!'. Note that I'm not specifying anyone has done this, it was just an example.
"My new kickstarter is a game project I was meaning to do for a long time. I am very experienced in giving money on game kickstarter campaigns, thus this qualifies me perfectly to lead this project. I've given money to a lot of projects and a lot of them were successful, some of them are pretty famous - Double fine KS, Broken sword 5 KS and many more.
Also my mate Dave gave some money to that new Starfighter sim thingy KS thing and my neighbour makes really good coffee, so that'll make me productive and super effective. So as you can see we are all very good and experienced at kickstarters and brewing coffee.
Now give me money!
p.s. almost forgot to say that the name of this game will be "Game" (working title). We plan to expand it to "PC game" if we don't manage to make ports for OS or Android."
Some people are stupid, some are smart and some people are creative and smart. It's that simple.
The stupid ones hopefully get phased out. The smart one's who know they are smart, annoyingly so, get some backers but often don't reach the target (unless most of them ie 80% or so are their pals! (or just devout followers)).
Where-as the creative type is talented and a good salesman, often even a nice person (This helps)! That is what generates followers. And that is what should generate followers.
I don't see any point in going on one of these sites and actively looking for something to invest in while having a preconception/ prejudice about everything. Go in with an open mind and if something you think deserves "your credit" hits you, bam! You just know. It's kind of like being on Dragons Den. At least that is my opinion.
If people build up a following, said following will back them. Perhaps even 'mind-numbingly' so. But that is just the human condition. To quote a few cliches' at you:
"Safety in numbers!"
"It's not what you know, it's who you know!"
It's also about a friend/ community mentality. And the rest is history.
Well there's 12hours left on the Hero-U Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption) and they've aaaaalmost got there.. I keep refreshing every hour.. this is gonna be a close finish lol!
I've been broke lately plus Im not sure if I'm gonna like Hero-U but I threw in a nice $90 for 3 reasons:
1- My way of saying a big thankyou and showing loyalty to the Coles for the 5 QFG games that I’ve love so dearly since my childhood. To me the money is really a payment to the Coles, not HeroU.
2- The Coles have hinted that if Hero-U is successful then there's a good chance of more QFG games in the future. If it’s not then we can probably forget about any more QFG. So I consider the money a future investment for QFG!
3- Ya never know, maybe HeroU will be good. It is being made by the Coles after all!
Hope they get there!!!!!
Quote from: Blake00 on Tue 20/11/2012 08:04:41
2- The Coles have said several times if Hero-U is successful then there's a good chance of more QFG games in the future. If it’s not then we can probably forget about any more QFG.
I beg to differ on that.
They made their funding, and I am very excited about it. It actually looks like it's going to be a great game.
They stumbled on a few points when presenting their campaign, but in the end they managed to raise the money they needed. I think they had a much better pitch than some of their contemporaries.
I believe that part of the reason we saw so much success from DoubleFine and Jane Jensen was because there hadn't been Kickstarter campaigns run by any of the old-school sdventure developers before. At that time, we couldn't have predicted that so many others would try. By the time the Coles came around, people were expecting a lot more. They also had less money to spend.
Anyways, I'm very eager to see how Hero-U turns out. It really looks great, and I think it will feel a lot like the QfG series. I actually believe it will become the successor to that series.
So this isn't actually a Wii-U title? Pretty dumb choice of name := The art assets are all over the place, some nice background concepts but not a lot else? It's a shame Kickstarter has been flooded with this kind of thing, i'd much rather support someone who has already finished half the project on their own. Bah, i'm just bitter because i've wanted to make a kickstarter page for years.