Horror Games Discussion

[Lionmonkey]

Thank you

[Tentacles]

  "What makes a horror game tick? What does classify it as horror? Obscene amounts of blood and gore? Pubescent teenagers being hacked to bits? Spooky dark corners? Spooky music and sounds? Tension build-ups that will give you
a heart attack in your twenties? Ghosts, zombies and crud like that?"

  The thing I have to place a great deal on is realism. Alot of the games with serial killers coming back from the dead, just strikes me as so unbelievable that it just doesnt shock me any more. I like a bit of mystery, were you not exactly sure whats going on, in fact it might at first seem completely normal, but there might be something that seems slightly off. So Tension,Mystery, and creepyness. But no gore.

[Ethan D]

I think that horror has several things that are important to accomplish it's affect.  The first foundation of horror is breaking someones reality.  What I mean by this is that whatever happens in the story, whatever actions, should be such that the can conceivably happen but it's not the way things are supposed to go.  For instance, I think No country for Old Men did this wonderfully when

Spoiler

The main character that the movie had been following for the entire thing dies off screen and is suddenly gone.  Not to mention the fact that ultimately the bad guy won.

[close]

We all have expectations and stereotypes ingrained in us for everything about another person.  This includes gender, skin color, job, nationality, age, hair length, whether they wear glasses, physique, and really anything that can possibly be seen or understood about a person.  Anyway, what I'm talking about here is that if you can change someones stereotypes, which is in fact their entire reality. (Since social reality is mentally constructed and different for everyone.)  Then you will not only make them very uncomfortable because of their inability to make what they deem as accurate judgments but you will also create fear from simple things.  The reason for this is that if one stereotype no longer makes sense because of evidence in a game/movie/story, then other ones could be wrong.  Each person will respond differently but I've known people who have had nightmares for weeks and are not comfortable being anywhere UNFAMILIAR.  The reason that is in bold is because usually people in this situation will seek familiar locations and people.  This is because as I have said people want to make predictions that they believe are accurate, and the better you know someone the better you can do that.   After a while this starts to fade when you don't see the stereotypes breaking as severely.  (I.E. a very kind person doesn't out of nowhere kill 3 people.)

The second base as far as I understand the element of horror is realism as several people here have said.  If something makes you say, "Well, I don't think that could ever happen."  Then the movie/game has failed.  However, even over the top things like magic and demons and such can make sense to a viewer/player if it is explained within the reality of the movie and it no longer "sounds crazy."  I think the reason why realism is so important is because it supports heavily the first and third bases of horror.  I've already discussed what I believe to be the first base of horror and the reason why realism is important to this one is obviously because if something doesn't seem realistic then nothing really seems realistic anymore and therefore the stereotypes that would have been broken are left either untouched or strengthened. 

I think that the third base of horror is the sudden finality of life.  The fact that you and anyone around you can suddenly be gone in a second.  The example I gave from No country for old men applies here as well.  Once again this is altering someones reality.  No one expects to die, it's what allows us to go from day to day, and that is why the fear created by this will not be persistent for too long.  However, there are few things that can cause as much fear as understanding just how fragile life is.   The second one once again supports this one because the more realistic it is the more you can associate yourself with the scenario in the movie.  If someone inherits a house that turns out to be haunted then you can get a little bit from that because it is after all a house and most people live in a house but the situation can't tie too closely to you.

A final fourth base that I see as heavily creating fear is the idea of being alone.  If you can create the feeling from this quote (Which I have no idea where it's from) then people will be afraid.

" You are left alone in this world,, Everybody is died, You are sitting in you room and somebody knocks at your door"

The idea here is that while obviously not everyone in the world is dead  in any situation you should feel utterly alone when the story is being told because people like to rely on each other whether they will admit it or not and help from another is a VERY comforting thing.  If you feel alone and then someone else walks in you have no idea what to expect.  The person could kill you or say hello, would you like some food?

I hope all that makes sense I was sort of just writing my thoughts down as I went so for all I know it could contradict itself at some point. 

Congratulations if you finished reading this post! 

[LimpingFish]

The horror of the...NECRO-POST!

But what I said...(scrolls up)...almost four years (!) ago, is still my basic opinion on bad horror games in general.

Hooray!

[Gravity]

While there have been very few games that have made me jump in fright, there are a couple. Resident Evil, Clock Tower, and Fatal Frame are a few of the games that I remember fondly. They each did something different and did it good (in my opinion), each game had it's own way of telling a story while placing you in a completely different horror situation. Zombies, Lunatics, and Ghosts. Great fun.

[Ethan D]

Zombies, Lunatics, and Ghosts. Great fun.

Don't forget the giant demon baby from clock tower! 

Clock tower was definitely my favorite horror game so far.  Right behind is trilby's notes/silent hill 2/ and silent hill: shattered memories.

[Mr Flibble]

I want to say that a "horror" game would be any game that scared you while you were playing it, but the only games that have ever scared me are The Infernal Machine (as an 8 year old, I had to get my brother to fight the Lava Demon for me) and playing Resident Evil for the first time (on my own, in the dark, on Hard - I ran into a room and meekly hid then eventually turned it off).

I got some shocks from the Yahtzee games but never any genuine fear. I presume this is a combination of finding it hard to suspend my disbelief (see above posts about realism) and knowing that I'm playing an adventure game where nothing can go wrong.

[mkennedy]

Does playing an online RPG with permanent death count as fear? Knowing that if your character dies it's all over for them and there is no resurrection? Knowing that those 40 + hours you spent getting your character up to level 500 have all been for naught? It's more frightening to me than many other games, don't usually feel fear in FPS as my reflexes tend to suck so I often need to cheat to finish the game.

[Grim]

Does playing an online RPG with permanent death count as fear? Knowing that if you're character dies it's all over for them and there is no resurrection? Knowing that those 40 + hours you spent getting your character up to level 500 have all been for naught? It's more frightening to me than many other games, don't usually feel fear in FPS as my reflexes tend to suck so I often need to cheat to finish the game.

I think it does to some degree. Recently I read this article about a guy who played FarCry2 the @permanent death@ way, which meant that if he died he'd never be allowed to play that game again, probably would be required to throw away the dvd, or maybe destroy it or something.... Anyway, I found the idea most fascinating. Knowing that you can't die, makes you want to slow down and approach things differently. In a fps especially, where few stray bullets from behind can knock you down, you'd take every step as carefuly as possible and check every corner before you take any action.
  This guy I read about apparently wrote a 400-pages essay about the experience. He managed to finish the game, or so he claims. I reckon, if more people tried "permanent death" there would be much more games related suicides... Some games, due to often unfair difficulty spikes, make you want to tear your hair out and scream in anger. I'm sure most people experienced this feeling of utter frustration. Now, imagine how it'd make you feel, dying some 20 hours in the game. Never get to see the ending. Thinking you've been beaten by a computer AI. Disgraced and ashamed. Failed. And most of all, what a horrible waste of time that'd be taking that you will never be able to finish what you started?.... That game over screen would take on a whole new meaning all of a sudden, wouldn't it ?
  And there's the fear, of course. Before that final insult of dying, there would be hours spent looking over your shoulder at the sound of the faintest distant footstep... Also, the FarCry soldiers replaced with a different, more supernatural kind of enemy, would definitely make everything a lot more frightening...

  One day I will make this game( unless someone's done it already?). It will be fair... but it will be hard too. The greatest ending ever will be promised that only very few will witness. When you'll die in that game, you'll die forever and the game will self-destruct It could also prevent user from reinstalling it by coping some files into a register....  The only option would be a total wipeout, hard disk format... But even that could probably be prevented.
  One day...

[Anian]

I'd call that stress about losing money and not get the whole thing you paid for, that's kinda wrong kind of scary. The main thing I hate about death in video games, is having to play a part over, especially cutscene you can't skip, reading text, dialogue etc. Only one have chance at playing is cheap kind of scare, like when things jump out of nowhere - just instinct taking over instead of feeling any real dread or creepiness. Trying not to die in an FPS is more of a challenge.

[Tentacles]

   In my experience in observing certain causes of hauntings, its not necessarily the ghost itself thats suppose to be scary.

  For example, lets look at the case serial killer John Wayne Gacy. Even though he was executed, the boys he killed were buried under his crawlspace. Rumers have said the spirits of those victims (Before the house was torn down) haunted the house.
 
  So although the ghosts themselves might not be that bad, its typically coupled with something else more freightening, like moments in time when traumatic events take place, such as a serial killer.


  http://hubpages.com/hub/John_Wayne_Gacy

  "The police took up the floor in their search of the house and the house was eventually torn down. Many people claim the location is currently haunted. People have claimed to see the ghost Gacy as Pogo the Clown and ghosts of the victims of Gacy."

[ShiverMeSideways]

* has a seizure when remembering what an idiot he was 4 years ago *

[Igor Hardy]

   In my experience in observing certain causes of hauntings, its not necessarily the ghost itself thats suppose to be scary.

  For example, lets look at the case serial killer John Wayne Gacy. Even though he was executed, the boys he killed were buried under his crawlspace. Rumers have said the spirits of those victims (Before the house was torn down) haunted the house.
 
  So although the ghosts themselves might not be that bad, its typically coupled with something else more freightening, like moments in time when traumatic events take place, such as a serial killer.

In this vein I was very impressed by the Japanese horror (movie) Dark Water. While I was watching it, it managed to convince me that quite an ordinary, but tragic life can be much scarier and more disturbing than the ghosts it created.

[LimpingFish]

In this vein I was very impressed by the Japanese horror (movie) Dark Water. While I was watching it, it managed to convince me that quite an ordinary, but tragic life can be much scarier and more disturbing than the ghosts it created.

I agree, and I suppose you could attribute that to empathy towards basic human feelings of sadness and regret. Dark Water managed to do this, though it meandered a bit as a movie, whereas a lot of J-Horror simply misses the point. Most western movies don't fair much better, confusing cheap frights with true horror. What frightens and horrifies us is usually something that shakes us from the comfort of our own reality and makes us question our own humanity and mortality, and that of the people around us. It's not scary to watch a killer off his victims, though it might make us jump. It's scary to look at the reasons somebody might be driven to murderous behavior, and question how far we ourselves might go, given the circumstances. It's scary to watch humanity devolve to levels of depravity we, as sane people, might not be able to comprehend.

Or the horrific realization that, somewhere down in the blackest pit of our soul, we do.

[blueskirt]

Interesting post Limping!

However, that kind of horror movies that tries to show you how depraved mankind can be doesn't scare me anymore for the simple reason that I know that somewhere on this planet, not only the stuff shown in the movie is common practice, but people are doing far worse.

[Igor Hardy]

Interesting post Limping!

However, that kind of horror movies that tries to show you how depraved mankind can be doesn't scare me anymore for the simple reason that I know that somewhere on this planet, not only the stuff shown in the movie is common practice, but people are doing far worse.

I don't see why the knowledge something is very real should nullify the scares. The viewers/players emotions depend mostly on the presentation of the events and how deep you are taken into them through the quality of storytelling.

But the Dark Water film I mentioned doesn't really show any depraved individuals, nor does it show any situation that you'd consider extremely rare - it just goes to the bottom of what it is about in a very affecting manner, making you truly feel for the characters involved.

[Questionable]

Here's a few movies that I think are scary:

Requiem for a Dream
Funny Games
Irreversible
Audition
Labyrinth

[LimpingFish]

However, that kind of horror movies that tries to show you how depraved mankind can be doesn't scare me anymore...

Oh, not with movies, no. I mean, as you go on to say, with the world in general.

That's a unique feeling I would find very hard to capture in the form of entertainment. But we can attempt to portray a situation or story that speaks to that part of us were those feelings arise.

I think it's easier to portray horror in print, since it requires the reader to draw from their own imagination and fears. Or, as Ascovel said, if a movie can make us empathize with horrors of a more personal kind, it can successfully touch a nerve.

But there's nothing horrific in movies such as Saw, beyond the apparent willingness of an audience to pay to see them.

I don't see why the knowledge something is very real should nullify the scares. The viewers/players emotions depend mostly on the presentation of the events and how deep you are taken into them through the quality of storytelling.

Conversely, when we know something isn't real, we run the risk of becoming detached. Especially when presented with a more graphic physical form of horror. For me, watching somebody being decapitated by a complex system of traps (ala Saw) raises not a eyebrow. But play the one-second shot of Fred Gywnne's achilles-tendon being viciously slashed with a scalpel (from Pet Sematary), and I'll wince like I've just been kicked in the nuts. Because I can relate to this simpler injury. It's a primal reaction, that negates the real and the unreal.

Emotional, psychological horror (such as Dark Water, or, more grounded in reality, Requiem for a Dream), can sometimes be far more effective than movies that would otherwise purport to be horrific.

EDIT: But then, we're lumping the "Scary" in with the "Horrific", while perhaps ignoring the "Creepy" and/or the "Unnerving". You can successfully achieve one, and not suffer from a lack of the others.

[Ali]

I really agree, though I'm not a connoisseur fan of horror films and certainly not of the slasher movie subspecies.

I am interested in the mystery and horror stories of M. R. James, H. G. Wells and Robert Louis Stevenson (obviously having two first names is the key to writing tales of the uncanny). They frequently begin their stories by establishing the reality of the narrative.

This story was told to me by my cousin... I uncovered this document in my Uncle's attic... When I was invited to the Lawyer's house...

The narrator finds the story difficult to believe themselves, and they tell you so. They wouldn't have credited it, if it hadn't been for compelling testimony of the lawyer / doctor / young woman of unimpeachable virtue.

These charming devices draw us into the supernatural and the dreadful by degrees, making the impossible seem possible - and all the more frightening.

[Grim]

But there's nothing horrific in movies such as Saw, beyond the apparent willingness of an audience to pay to see them.

Why does everyone always pick on that film? I watched all 6 and I think they were great:)

Sure, it isn't the sort of "deep intellectual stuff" that amateur film critics get so excited about but it doesn't mean it's bad. In my opinnion, quite the opposite, and I will always jump to defend the Saw franchise, even knowing that there will be a hundred good arguments against it...

What matters in Saw, at least to me, is the ideology of the killer and the execution of his own sick vision of how to fix the world. The film is unpredictable and original. It never follows a teenage slasher mind-dumbing cliches and instead just tells a good story in a very straight-forward direct way.

Films like Lost Highway and  Reqiuem For  A Dream should never be compared to films like Saw. They are very different kinds of horror films and both frighten and shock in their own ways. It doesn't always have to be all psychological Sometimes it's just meant to be entertainment.