How to limit yourself?

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Argh NY, I knew there was a reason why I hadn't killed you and assumed your identity yet, Eric >:|

[Helm]

however, eric is working on franchise ports!

[Andail]

Coveredinsludge  (or Deirdra, which some call you and which sound more appealing in some way);

Generally in AGS we encourage new members to make a minor project first, hence the big record of short games. That's simply a part of the pedagogical agenda. Too many people, especially young people, have set the bar really high and can't stop hyping their grand super project with ten hours' gameplay and more than 100 rooms.
If you start by making a fairly limited game, you'll know your capability, you'll require less outside help and you'll enjoy having given birth to something that other people can see.

Far too many people get stuck in enormous projects, which might indeed be worked on, but just like Zenon's paradox it will never be completed. That will just create huge expectations, and in the end be discouraging to all.

So, just because AGS has a very high amount of short games, doesn't mean that we lack big games. It's not an inherent quality of AGS to only produce one hour games, it's a part of our philosophy to start out small and then aim for bigger.

[TheYak]

Franchise ports? The new GBA McDonald's game? 
-----
The reasons mentioned above are similar to reasons I've started and scrapped about 12 projects now.  Either I can't get graphics that live up to my expectations, become over-ambitious with an epic plotline, become inspired by an idea only to decide that it's overdone and dull weeks later, or go head-first into a project and get all the backgrounds or sprites done without time to spare for scripting/writing/animating.  With my next ambitious streak I'll be doing a very simple 1-2 room game, probably rather quirky so it keeps me amused and then I'll be able to determine if I can grind away at a solo project or at least figure out if I can dedicate myself to another's project.

[Helm]

zeno's paradox. The only paradox in Zenon is that it's so tough after the second stage, yet you recieve no extra lives.

[ildu]

I guess one could try progressing in stages. As in start with a one-room game with a crap story (so you don't get carried away with it) and have very little animations and just some simple puzzles. After that you could advance to a 3-4-room game with some simple story, walkcycles, an NPC and some more complex puzzles. And you could keep on advancing until you feel confident enough to start something larger.

Btw, I totally agree with Andail's reply to coveredinsludge/deirdra's post. I'm pretty sure a larger percentage of bigger game projects never get released than of smaller projects. I've been to numerous modding and game-making communities in my years. Come to think of it, I haven't seen more than 5-10 bigger projects actually getting released of the hundreds of projects that get announced. This isn't to say some aren't released. It just demands a more patient and enduring person to complete them. Rise of the Hidden Sun is probably the most ambitious project worked on in AGS. Now I don't want to jinx them, but I have a feeling they will never finish the game, at least not as they originally planned. Some weeks ago they announced a year hiatus on the development due to personal troubles, and then a day after announced that the game was back in development. I've seen this scenario way too many times to believe it myself.

[Andail]

zeno's paradox. The only paradox in Zenon is that it's so tough after the second stage, yet you recieve no extra lives.

Ah, please excuse my linguistic deviation. Zenon is some sort of germanic/scandinavian variety, I guess. Just like we say Platon, for some obscure reason, and not Plato.

[Anarcho]

I've encountered just about everyone one of the pitfalls already mentioned, and I agree with most of the advice provided so I won't repeat it.  But I would like to add that many times, we're our own worst critics.  Creative/artsy people can get bogged down redrawing and redoing artwork again and again because it never looks "perfect".  I redrew almost every background for my game, Emily Enough, because I wasn't satisfied with it.  That might have been justified, I'm not sure.  But in the end, it might have been more useful to complete the game using less appealing graphics so that I could then use my newly learned skills in graphics/scripting/design to create a more well rounded and complete game.  So what I'm saying is, don't let your pefectionism come in the way of completing a game. 

And it helps if you have a girlfriend yelling at you to stop obsessing and just finish the damn thing already.

[Helm]

Zenon is 'more correct' in greek really, because we spell it Zenonas/Zenon/Zononws (depends if it's in ancient greek or modern, and the person you're adressing it as) but the english spelling is most definately Zeno. Plato is Platonas, Platon etc in greek too. This conversation sure helps people finish their ags games in time.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

Start out small and move on to bigger things, eh? Given that that seems to be EXACTLY how AGS itself has been developed, I'm not surprised at all. And mind you, it's not a bad philosophy in the least. It's made AGS popular, and admittedly, there's much we can learn from you all.

I dunno... it just seemed to me like the original poster, having already created a game, might just have been ready to start a more ambitious project. In that case, I thought that maybe finding an "epic" idea he liked enough to stick with rather than force himself to limit himself may have been another option.

Still, I completely understand what you all mean by really ambitious projects that never get finished. (I mean, I was part of the SCRAMM community once!) I find that I'm the kind of person who sticks with an idea to the end, though, and it may be that I'm more motivated than the average person. (not that I mean to gloat or anything) A lot of SLUDGE developers are like that too; though it was pointed out that a lot of projects that were started two or three years ago and had working demos and everything are now dead. Heh. Again, I think AGSers might be on to something.

Really, though, I'm still a huge "quality over quantity" person (even though "quality" is a VERY subjective word). I think the key really is to know one's own limits and make the best of them. (Admittedly, though, most n00bs don't know their limits and think they can do anything, in which case they should probably be sent to http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html)

Anyway... Eric, you think your company'll still be around in two and a half years, when I graduate? Truly, working on GBA games with small teams does sound quite tantalizing. Might be better than being just another drone at EA or whatever, in any case.

[ManicMatt]

Plato is Platonas, Platon etc in greek too. This conversation sure helps people finish their ags games in time.

PHEW! I had put my game on halt until I found out the accurate name of my NPC, Plato! Complete with toga. (Erm.. right? Oh no I'm thinking of socrates!)



It's a GOOD sign I suppose though, that I stayed up till 12:30am last night to finish off a part of a background!

[Squinky]

It's a GOOD sign I suppose though, that I stayed up till 12:30am last night to finish off a part of a background!

You think your hardcore man?!? Hardcore is not sleeping at all! Or eating.....or bathroom breaks!

[ManicMatt]

I can picture you now! Your eye all red and pussy, with a matchstick to keep it open. A drip with juice food to keep you alive, and a bucket between your legs! (With a pipe installed underneath the bucket so the urine can travel to the toilet.)

[Squinky]

Hardcore!

Coincidentally: Say what?:

I can picture you now! Your eye all red and pussy, with a matchstick to keep it open.

My eyes are what?!?! And why, in gods name would you put a match in there!?

[ManicMatt]

Sheesh!

Red and pussy (the stuff you get from wiping your eyes) from staring at a monitor for too long, and a matchstick held up vertically between your eyelids to prevent them from shutting!

[Ginny]

I can sympathize with starting very ambitious projects and not finishing them. There is a point in CoveredInSLUDGE's words though - if you think of a story you like so much that you just can't bear to see it be buried along with other stories and never be made into a game, well, then you might just finish a project, however big it might be. There's one project I'm working on in a team with some people that is like that. Though it's been going really slow we all really want to finish it someday, it's too dear to us. It may take years.. Hah, and if one of them reads this, well they'll get this quote: "It may take years, it may take hours, but sooner or later, we push up flowers.."

[edmundito]

You can be somewhat ambitous, but only if you're capable of doing everything by yourself (Grundislav) without any help, or if you know some people in real life who are willing to help you and are pretty good in writing, graphics, etc (Geoffkhan and Big Brother, AGD Interactive).

Anything beyond that is more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

[Kinoko]

I can picture you now! Your eye all red and pussy, with a matchstick to keep it open.

My eyes are what?!?! And why, in gods name would you put a match in there!?

I just about pissed myself reading that.

[Redwall]

It's a GOOD sign I suppose though, that I stayed up till 12:30am last night to finish off a part of a background!

You think your hardcore man?!? Hardcore is not sleeping at all! Or eating.....or bathroom breaks!

Like this guy?

ABC Asia Pacific reports that a 38-year-old South Korean man recently collapsed and died after a marathon game session, which saw him toiling away in an Internet café in Incheon, west of Seoul, for ten days solid.

[SSH]

Sheesh!

Red and pussy (the stuff you get from wiping your eyes) from staring at a monitor for too long, and a matchstick held up vertically between your eyelids to prevent them from shutting!

Matt, look up "puss-y" in urbandictionary. And "pus-filled" might be better. But a better way still would just be to say bloodshot. I don't call that yellow stuff you get in the corner of your eyes "pus" I call it "sleep". But maybe that's just me.