Hi I hope this hasn't been asked before I did have a brief search and couldn't really find what I was looking for.
I'm currently at the beginning of a very large project, I'm willing to back it financially and will also consider selling it at the end to pay the contributors (which I have a huge lack of at the moment lol).
I'm going to make (well not just me lol) a 2D point and click adventure game with rich artwork and a compelling story line.
Here's a few examples of the kind of artwork I have in mind for my project
http://i40.tinypic.com/n56mj6.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2eq5qmo.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/104rtqf.jpg
I know this is a very ambitious project and a lot of people will doubt it but I'm very motivated and will ensure that it happens eventually.
I have read quite a few threads on this forum and the community seem extremely helpful and talented and I will certainly be asking for people to join my team (I could even pay a few people for their work) on here when I have more to show about my game.
Anyway the reason I made this thread was to ask for advice on how to write the story, script and also incorporate the puzzles etc.
I started to write a brief of the story and wrote around a page of a basic outline, setting the scene, objective and main theme. But as I started to write the story in full depth I basically ended up writing a few pages of what seemed to read like a novel. This is not my aim, it will be very time consuming to write the whole storyline in this way and I'm at a loss how to write it without it reading like a book. Any advice guys?
Also I'm unsure how to write the puzzles etc into it, I'm quite new to this as you can probably tell lol.
I have played many adventure games and always wanted to make one but now I'm in a stable position to realistically produce one I'm a little confused where to start lol.
I could go on for days but I won't. If someone would be as kind as to help me out with some advice and examples I'd be very grateful.
Thanks for your time.
accidental double post
You shouldn't be doing this as your first project. Not this way.
You don't have experience writing game stories, creating puzzles, making graphics, coding, project management, ... really any of the skills you need to make an adventure game. That's not to doubt your talent, potential or drive, but doing something for the first time is never going to produce your best work. If you really want to do this thing, and do it right, you first need to get some practice.
That's also going to make it easier for you to put a team together. You'll have a hard time keeping a group of people motivated to work on a huge project that will take a long time to finish (see: Fate of Atlantis 2, Hero6, Sphinx, etc., etc.), and if you don't have a proven track record it's going to be next to impossible.
So start by making a small game. If you're so wrapped up in your idea that you can't work on anything else, start by making a prequel or a demo of a small part of the full game. You can expand it later, but focus on finishing and releasing this one part first. (Incidentally, this kind of "vertical slice" is how many developers pitch game projects to publishers, so already you're working like a pro.) The experience is going to teach you much more than anyone could explain in a hundred forum posts.
(As someone who's never come close to finishing a game, I may not be the best person to offer you advice, but I feel confident that AGS veterans will agree.)
Thanks for the advice. Yes I was planning to make a demo type version at first and this will hopefully lead on to greater things, this is a big vision I know and I've thought about it a lot I'm not going to rush straight into it and would rely on a team quite a lot (this is why I would offer payment). Perhaps I should stick to drafting out the story first?
WOW! Great artwork!!!!! :o but yeah Snarky is right, creating a small game is better, because you have the felling of "ha! I completed a game, i`m good, but i can do bigger and better!" I didn`t take that advice, never done a game in AGS before and already making a medium-full lenght game ;D
Ok thanks for the advice guys. I really have my heart set on this and as I can put decent amounts of money into it I would really like to start my project. But how about I start the story etc and make a basic demo of the game I intend to make for my smaller game?
Jakerpot, I think those images are just pictures found on the Internet that illustrate the look PureSkeng is aiming for. Yeah, cool artwork, but they don't actually have anything to do with the game.
Anyway, this is just how I tend to jot down ideas:
I usually start out with a "hook", something that's cool and different about the game. This can be either the story ("there'll be this awesome moment when it's revealed that your dog is the killer!"), some puzzle/gameplay idea ("you play as a robot who has to forage the scenery for jury-rigged upgrades to your own components!"), or even some unique look ("a game done in the style of a PowerPoint presentation!"). This is the reason why I want to make the game, the thing that gets me excited about it.
Then I come up with a very short overview of the story, just a sentence or two. I don't necessarily write it down, but it ensures that I have an idea of where the game will begin and end. (At this time, I've probably thought quite a lot about the story, the characters, the setting, etc., and I usually note all that stuff down too, just so I don't forget about it.)
From there, I write a stage-by-stage outline of the game. Each stage is a major new phase in the story, something that changes the player's gameplay goals. For example:
5. Player needs to get far away from Wonky Island before nuclear test goes off.
-gather material for and build a raft ("stealing axe from giant kiwi nest" puzzle)
-capture dolphins to pull raft
After jetting away from island just ahead of nuclear blast, dolphins gain super-intelligence from radiation mutation, make you their ambassador to humanity.
6. Bring porpoise message of peace to world leaders.
-acquire blackberry with direct line to president
-...
(This game sounds pretty stupid, and also way too epic for a first game. For a small game, you almost want each stage to be a single puzzle, or a couple of puzzles. The number of stages needed to tell your story is a good indicator of whether it's getting too long.)
I tend to fill in the outline with specific puzzle ideas as I go along, and end up with something that looks a lot like a walkthrough (though not down to quite that level of detail). Some parts can be very specific, while others are still very vague.
At this point, if not earlier, it's time to figure out what rooms you need, and which objects and characters are going to be there.
I'd say that when you get this far (and it really shouldn't take more than a few hours), you should start production. You don't want to spend too much time without anything visual or playable to show for it. Concept art, a few screens of placeholder graphics linked together... just something to let you see how what you've been working looks in action.
Well, that's a start, and should bring you to a point where you can begin to actually implement the game. If someone who actually knows what they're talking about tells you different, I'd listen to them instead.
Oh yeah sorry I forgot to say that isn't my artwork lol.
Thanks Snarky that's a big help I'll have to start drafting my game more seriously this coming week and try to sort out the basics.
This is a very basic blurb type introduction I wrote when I first thought of the basic storyline.
Quote"The year is 3012, the planet is in turmoil. In an age of hi-tech poverty stricken countries most cities resemble a futuristic urban megalopolis. The rich get richer and the poor do what they can to get by living in habitats similar to a futuristic Walled City of Kowloon.
A majority of the world is in depression as the government rule with an iron fist of control that leaves the public stuck in the hi-tech ‘ghettos’ know as ‘The Pits’. Many people have fled the cities to live underground in caverns just below the surface. Rouge groups have developed, many are involved with organized crime on the surface but some are mysterious and are said to be political vigilantes attempting to fight the government to little avail.
You play as Nikolai O’Hara, a down and out [undecided occupation] angry at society striving for a better life. One day as he makes his way home through the South Tower Pits he hears about a vigilante militant group known as ‘Tiger Wolf’. They are storming cities in full force attempting to take over in a bid to gain power and money in such deep times of poverty. That night Tiger Wolf raid South Tower kicking off the doors to peoples homes and taking them all captive. Nikolai is woken to the sound of militant troops tearing through his home, in the struggle he knocks one of their helmets off and is faced with a true horror that he couldn’t comprehend.
Help Nikolai escape capture and avoid certain death as his life takes a turn for the worse. Run, walk, fight, sneak and converse your way through a futuristic world faced with propaganda, mystery and corruption at every corner."
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 06/03/2009 02:16:52
("there'll be this awesome moment when it's revealed that your dog is the killer!")
Damn it Snarky! Have you been reading my Resonance design docs?! >:(
You can buy my brilliant ideas now, Vince, or get ready to settle my plagiarism lawsuits when the game comes out. (My going price is $0.0083/idea.)
PureSkeng, that blurb is fine* as a PR notice, but when you're working on the design of the game, addressing no one but yourself and your team, you have to actually write about the game itself: What is going to happen in the game? What is the gameplay like? The setting and backstory is not your game. The game is those things you give to the player to do. In three paragraphs, the only real description of the game itself is "run, walk, fight, sneak and converse." You need to be... more specific.
_____
* Actually, I don't think it's all that compelling as publicity, either. The world and premise sound awfully generic (you might almost be describing the setup for The Moment of Silence (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,448), or Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,923), just off the top of my head), and my only impression of what the game is actually like is that it features running, fighting, and stealth, so it's probably an action game, maybe action/RPG. Based on this description, I would not be interested in playing the game (though others might). I think you should ask yourself what makes this game compelling, what sets it apart from the hundreds of other games set in futuristic states ruled with iron fists. When the time comes to promote it, those things are what you should emphasize.
Hey, while I have yet to complete a game, writing is something that I do know pretty well. I would have to agree with Snarky that you might need to add some more compelling elements to your basic plot. Even doing a considerable amount of work with your main character alone can set a fixed genre game like this one apart from others. The Space Quest series comes to mind. Ultimately, somewhat cliche elements of the setting and plot are transformed into a unique parody, largely by the decision to present the game world from the perspective of a dumb but lucky custodian rather than the typical hero. I'm not saying to copy these games, just providing an example of how a well placed main character can do a world of good.
Anyway, if you are looking for a sort of outline form to put all of your story and puzzle ideas together before starting the project, Al Lowe has posted his design file for Leisure Suit Larry 5 at http://www.allowe.com/gamedesign/Larry5%20Design.pdf (http://www.allowe.com/gamedesign/Larry5%20Design.pdf) While this format is extensive, it is a product of one of the greats (in my opinion). And, if you are hoping to commission artists and such it gives them a very specific outline to follow.
I hope this helps, and good luck with your first game.
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 06/03/2009 06:03:36
You can buy my brilliant ideas now, Vince, or get ready to settle my plagiarism lawsuits when the game comes out. (My going price is $0.0083/idea.)
PureSkeng, that blurb is fine* as a PR notice, but when you're working on the design of the game, addressing no one but yourself and your team, you have to actually write about the game itself: What is going to happen in the game? What is the gameplay like? The setting and backstory is not your game. The game is those things you give to the player to do. In three paragraphs, the only real description of the game itself is "run, walk, fight, sneak and converse." You need to be... more specific.
_____
* Actually, I don't think it's all that compelling as publicity, either. The world and premise sound awfully generic (you might almost be describing the setup for The Moment of Silence (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,448), or Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,923), just off the top of my head), and my only impression of what the game is actually like is that it features running, fighting, and stealth, so it's probably an action game, maybe action/RPG. Based on this description, I would not be interested in playing the game (though others might). I think you should ask yourself what makes this game compelling, what sets it apart from the hundreds of other games set in futuristic states ruled with iron fists. When the time comes to promote it, those things are what you should emphasize.
As I said what I posted is an extremely basic introduction to the idea of a blurb there's a lot more to it than just that lol. I just thought I'd put something out rather than just ask for help on a game that no one knows nothing about. And it will be a point and click adventure with a difference I'll post more details on the game when I get home form work.
Quote from: Shea on Fri 06/03/2009 06:43:23
Hey, while I have yet to complete a game, writing is something that I do know pretty well. I would have to agree with Snarky that you might need to add some more compelling elements to your basic plot. Even doing a considerable amount of work with your main character alone can set a fixed genre game like this one apart from others. The Space Quest series comes to mind. Ultimately, somewhat cliche elements of the setting and plot are transformed into a unique parody, largely by the decision to present the game world from the perspective of a dumb but lucky custodian rather than the typical hero. I'm not saying to copy these games, just providing an example of how a well placed main character can do a world of good.
Anyway, if you are looking for a sort of outline form to put all of your story and puzzle ideas together before starting the project, Al Lowe has posted his design file for Leisure Suit Larry 5 at http://www.allowe.com/gamedesign/Larry5%20Design.pdf (http://www.allowe.com/gamedesign/Larry5%20Design.pdf) While this format is extensive, it is a product of one of the greats (in my opinion). And, if you are hoping to commission artists and such it gives them a very specific outline to follow.
I hope this helps, and good luck with your first game.
Thanks for that Shea I'll keep that in mind for my character maybe you could help me a bit more as I get deeper into writing for my game?
I sadly haven't got photoshop to open that file at work.
You don't need Photoshop, just get Adobe Reader (http://get.adobe.com/reader/) to open pdf files. There's also several other design documents (http://www.allowe.com/gamedesign/) available on Al Lowe's site. My favorite (since it's more story based than the Larry games) is the Freddy Pharkas design.
Oh yeah of course lol sorry little tired.
Well I'm going to start drafting out my story today if anyone would want to take a look and help me constructivly give me a message and I'll show you what I've got.
No matter what scale the project, I'd advise you write a movie-style script early on in the process, after making some detailed walkthrough notes.
Generally, when I get an idea, I jot it down, it may only be a title, it may be a few words or a short paragraph. From that I can brainstorm & will usually just open Notepad and write a rough for the basis of the story. This is a period to jot down ideas of what you'd like to happen, even if you don't know exactly how you'll make it happen. So I usually then go onto write it out as a walkthrough, where I can explore more puzzles in the story and special cutscenes for example.
The next step, from what I've learnt over recent years, is a good time to just go for it and write a full length movie script. This way you can really flesh out your ideas, get a good idea of "pacing" and perhaps even jog some gameplay ideas into place. You get a chance then to focus on major dialogue.
One thing I would recommend, from personal experience - it may not be a great method for you or anyone else, but don't bog yourself down writing some kind of script or design document that outlines every single line of dialogue, every single puzzle etc. Its a time wasting exercise and it can hinder your creativity.
Games evolve. Sometimes you can be lucky to have a strong idea initially and see it through in quite a short space of time. But there will be plenty of times when your ideas will simply have little momentum and even BENEFIT from you waiting it out.
The two gamesI'm involved with that Im holding out to be particularly good point & clicks are FoY and Kinky Island, both have been in production for many years. But the contents of both those games just gets better and better with every re-write. In fact, both games have been "reworked" several times and seriously, if they hadn't, they would suck. Their design process, along with the very few demos Ive released, all followed the same process. Idea, walkthrough, movie script...and everything else just falls into place during development.
Have fun :)
Thanks mods really appreciate the positive advice. So should I describe it from start to finish, e.g. Describe what happens in the first cutscene then describe how it goes into game play etc?
I would also focus on the characters. Develop them, their history, personality, etc. I have found that if I can invent really good characters and if I get to know and care about them the story writes itself.
One other advice that I got from here many years ago and has served me well is to first create the world in which the story takes place so that all the rooms have walkable areas and so that the main character can walk from one room to the other with outh respect to plot, puzzles, etc. Next animate doors and make other elements of the game world functional. As Mods says the plot and puzzles are subject to change and refinement and may do so radically over the course of a project.
Anyway best of luck...
Thanks RickJ I appreciate the advice.
I'm starting to write now, I'm writing it like a walkthrough as mods suggested. But my question is shall I write the puzzles paralell with the story as I go through? And should I include the speech after e.g. Enter the room and speak with John, then put the actual dialog afterward?
I would be glad to look over whatever you come up with if you like.
Also, RickJ has some good advice about developing character history. Since most traditional plot revolves around some sort of conflict, knowing your characters inside and out lets you see how they would naturally react to that conflict. Often times, writing like this will be what takes the story to places that even you as the writer did not expect.
Writing a couple pages of back story for major characters (that your audience may never see in any way) always helps create a richer story in screenwriting, and I would assume it does the same in creating adventure games.
If you decide to write up a script as Mods suggested, there is a free Word template that makes formatting a little easier here http://www.cvisual.com/film-techniques/film-script-templates.asp (http://www.cvisual.com/film-techniques/film-script-templates.asp) It formats to the professional British standard, but is pretty close to the U.S. standard as well. As for the order in which you create puzzles and dialogue, I personally like to develop story first and let gameplay elements fall into place as naturally as possible, but someone who has completed a few games may be able to help you a little more with that.
Thanks some great advice on this forum I was a little concerned I'd get "flamed" before I posted lol.
Would you suggest I write all the information about my main characters before I start to write the 'script'?
It would help, but as far as I've learned it often doesn't happen that way. You start with what you got and add to it. You may have a scene that makes you think, yes, this is because my hero did THIS as a kid... and suddenly you have a new piece of background. Or vice versa. But it's sensible to say that you should have a complete "story walkthrough" before you "waste" too much time on elaborate artwork/animations.
Another thing that might be helpful is the tried-and-tested "quest tree". Make a mind map of all your "larger goals", and break them down into their subquests. Check where any sub-action requires something that is part of a different quest. And then make sure that you do not have situations where the player needs the key to get the crowbar that he needs to smash the box where the key is hidden.
And, just a thought, this is turning into an interesting topic, maybe it should be stickie'd?
Thanks Ghost, it has helped me somewhat as I've worked out how to link more mysteries/plots in with the main character by doing this but I'm trying not to go into to much detail as it feels like I could write an entire family tree lol.
I don't really know how many characters I have I mean more will develop as I progress through the story. Is this really a problem though or is it ok to build up as I go through, provided they're not huge characters?
Paper's patient, as we say in Germany, and if you're prepared to provide the sprites and artwork, heck, go with side roles! They are a good way to provide some extra info/flair/fun, so what the heck ;)
Quote
Writing a couple pages of back story for major characters (that your audience may never see in any way) always helps create a richer story in screenwriting, and I would assume it does the same in creating adventure games.
I agree. Don't be shy about writing character background, back story or whatever that may not be used directly in the game. It's all helpful and you'll never know whatr your'e going to need.
I was going to suggest a lot of what m0ds has said: movie script. It's a format that can very easily be adapted to games, especially if it's a very linear game. I was looking for a site that had a really good guide for beginner's but it is sadly down.
~Trent
PS- Eejit's Guide to Film-Making, if anyone's interested. I've loved it in the past, so I'll be watching for it to come back up.
I've spent quite a few hours writing the bio's of the main character and both his parents (which are not even in the game lol but are mentioned). This is a long process but it is paying off as I've got some new ideas that will hopefully make the game more original, I'm worried it might not be appealing enough....
You may find some useful tutorials and development notes that I archived from the internet here:
http://www.lucasstyle.com/tutorials.htm
As I worked into the early hours last night me and a friend who is also working on this potentially huge project with me discussed doing a smaller game first like suggested. We've decided to go onto do a small less serious (storyline wise) side project to give you guys some idea of what we do and to have some actual visuals to give you lol.
Here's some backgrounds we've made for the side project already.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4307/jakerkid1.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jakerkid1.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4928/jakerkid2.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jakerkid2.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7847/jakerkid3.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jakerkid3.jpg)
Nothing amazing but a bit more basic and we're able to make these backgrounds ourselves. If anyone would be able to help similar backgrounds please let me know though, thanks.
EDIT: Any feedback on these screenshots would be greatly appreciated :)
Screens are good! Make sure you created a small situation that the character need to complete without too much trouble or delay, a good example of a small game is Annie Android, by Ben. It`s a small and fun game, that ilustrate how a small game have to be. Few rooms, 1-14 rooms are a good amount for a small game, i mean rooms, not rooms that could be frames. I never ended a game on AGS, but if i tried starting a small one, for sure i would finish it. But i'm very stubborn, so i want to create a big one ::)
I am also very stubborn I dislike the idea of short games strongly lol. This small side project seems to be getting bigger and bigger the more we plan it lol. Thanks for the advice though I'm going to try and keep it shorter, in less the story flows nicely and we can finish it quickly with a nice length. Saying that though we only have one programmer on the team so far that uses c++
Screens look good. The extent of your character development is up to you, but I usually prefer to err on the side of having too much before starting than having too little. Just remember that you don't have to include all of it in the game itself. Let it dictate your characters' actions, and include the more outlandish bits if your characters have particularly odd quirks that may not make sense without knowing about their pasts. Typically, it helps to use your basic premise and plot line as a skeleton, allowing characters to do their own thing within its context as long as they do not stray too far from the original idea.
Thanks Shea, although I'm still writing for my major project we've decided to take this little side project more seriously as we're getting quite good feedback from the screenshots etc. It's going to be a comedic type fantasy where the hero is not what you'd usually expect. I'm finding it very hard though making this idea original as I have no experience in this kind of genre before apart from monkey island.
Well, it sounds fun, and since you are going the comedic route, you can always parody, satirize, or just plain make fun of the aspects of your story that feel unoriginal to you. Look at what Mel Brooks does with movies like Space Balls and Robin Hood Men in Tights or what Matt Groening does in The Simpsons and Futurama. Keep us posted on your progress.
Ah yes I never really thought about doing something like that. I want to make it my own story but perhaps I could use parts of fairytale, nursery rhymes etc in a homage/parody type way.
We did have an idea of Zelda being mentioned and the main character saying how he heard she was "a bit of a floozy" lol and also a scene where pikmin help you on a puzzle, so I think you've given me a good idea here thanks I'll use more ideas like this when writing.
I'll definitely keep you updated as the AGS community seem very welcoming and helpful. I should have a few more screenshots in 2 weeks, about 3 or 4. Still looking for programmers for the team though :( lol
EDIT: Just found some more screens that we've actually decided are either not good enough or unfinished but thought I'd share anyway.
1(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4893/notusingq.th.png) (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=notusingq.png) 2(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8065/jakerkidskull.th.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jakerkidskull.jpg) 3(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3223/zombiekid.th.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zombiekid.jpg) 4(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1193/pikminhelp.th.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pikminhelp.jpg) 5(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6338/pikminhelp2.th.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pikminhelp2.jpg)
1. Zombie Kid (not the main character) sits on the hill wishing he could be a hero. (frames being redesigned)
2. Close up of Oscars skull (a puzzle item)
3. Zombie Kid
4. Pikmin cutscene (hand drawn sketch) currently unfinished
5. Pikmin cutscene, second frame (hand drawn sketch) currently unfinished