I'm doing a study on fan made games. Could you answer some questions?

[Linda]

Hi everybody,

I am doing a study on fan communities and participatory culture, in particular for the Monkey Island series. Participatory culture basically is when users (fans) become producers, by altering existing games/programmes/media or making their own interpretation of the original game. This is mostly done with the use of opensource software.
I know this is happening around the world, but mostly in genres like RPG. Amongst other things I'm wondering to what extent this is happening with adventure games, in particular Monkey Island.
And for that I could really use your help!

My first question to you is: Have you ever, or would you know anyone who has, made an adaptation of Monkey Island? If so, was it an adventure game or was it another genre but did it contain elements of MI (like characters, backgrounds, etc)? Did it maybe feature some next-generation elements? Basically I am interested in all fan creations in general, old school or not. But it would of course be extra special if it would ‘exceed' the original games.


For my second and most important question, my point of reference is Henry Jenkins' article on ‘interactive audiences' (http://web.mit.edu/cms/People/henry3/collective%20intelligence.html), in which he basically states that there are three conditions that make participatory culture possible:

1)   Fans or fan communities have the tools
Tools are software like ScummVM; just anything that would help you create.

2)   A range of subcultures promote Do-It-Yourself
Fans have a collective intellegence, by giving each other (technical) support and advice. The most important point here is that many can know what one alone could never.

3)   Corporate industries approve and even encourage fan participation.
Corporate industries are of course companies, big or small, that make games for money, like LucasArts or Autumn Moon Entertainment.

My second question is: do you think this is true?
- Are the tools available for everyone? Of course there is open source software for some games, but would you reckon it sufficient (most importantly for the adventuregenre, but also for their own genres). And most importantly, are those tools made only by fans, or are there some companies that put there software online for everyone to use or alter?

- Is there enough know-how in the (MI) fan communities? Do people support each other, share their knowledge, and if so, how (through forums, articles, special websites etc.)? And are there also real specialists active in these domains, or is it only done by fans?

- Is it true that corporate industries support participatory cultures, or would they actually just sue you if you would use any of their characters/worlds/etc. in your game? Furthermore, are some industries more supportive than others


To some of these questions I already have (part of) the answer, but it would be great to get lots of info from many different people, so I can compare and analyse it. For the same reason I have posted this thread on a couple of related forums, so you could come across it elsewhere.


I really hope you guys can help me out!

Linda van de Fliert
linda.vandefliert@student.uva.nl
University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands

[Hammerite]

A lot of successful fan-projects are going on that are disliked by the original creators (LucasArts HATE fan input)

[ALPHATT]

Well for your first question just look here http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=22611.0 but there are tons of othe MI fangames/remake threads in the forums.

[Radiant]

My first question to you is: Have you ever, or would you know anyone who has, made an adaptation of Monkey Island?

Know personally? No. But there's a handful of fangames, and several dozen more in production. Generally they contain the exact same characters, backgrounds, etc, with one or two additions, per regular fanfic streams, possibly including Mary Sues.. None of them come even remotely close to the quality of the original.

- Are the tools available for everyone?

Yes. The indie scene has extensive modding tools, supporting PCs, Linux and generally Macs as well, for a wide variety of games. And not just the indies - several commercial games are extensively moddable, a notable example being Counterstrike.

- Is there enough know-how in the (MI) fan communities?

Sure. It takes little know-how to make a game these days, if you're willing to look a bit into the toolkits. It does take skill to make a good game, though. There's dozens of forums, and they do include professional artists and musicians, in particular, who generally are also fans. Indie games tend to have a zero budget.

- Is it true that corporate industries support participatory cultures, or would they actually just sue you if you would use any of their characters/worlds/etc. in your game?

In general they ignore you. I am unaware of any actual court cases, but certain companies are rather trigger-happy with cease-and-desist notices.


En wat een ongebruikelijk studieonderwerp voor de UVA wat doe je voor iets?

[cobra79]

1.) Have you ever, or would you know anyone who has, made an adaptation of Monkey Island?
- I have not and I don't personally know someone who tried it, but I know that there are adaptations.

2.1) Spot on. Tools are a must. The creative part is hard enough and most people would not bother if they also needed in depth knowledge of the technical aspect. I know I would not. (It is still not self-explanatory, as the beginners technical forum demonstrates.)

2.2) Yes.

2.3) No. Corporate industries merely tolerate fan projects, if at all. I think the moment they feel that they are losing an income opportunity you are in trouble. If you are making money at their expense you are in big trouble.

I would add that a certain amount of publicity is important. Most likely a demonstration of what can be done with the tools of 2.1 in form of a good finished game most people like.

Good luck with your thesis.

[Snarky]

Incidentally, ScummVM is not a tool that helps you create games.

[zabnat]

3)   Corporate industries approve and even encourage fan participation.

Some do and some don't. This also affects to the development of tools.
But it seems to like radiant and cobra79 said. Usually they just ignore. But if the fan project gets some publicity, then they may do something. If the fan project is of inferior quality they feel it makes their brand name look bad and if it "exceeds" the original in quality they can feel that they should be making money with that
Good example is The Silver Lining (King's Quest IX), luckily they reached to an agreement and development of their game continued.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Is it true that corporate industries support participatory cultures, or would they actually just sue you if you would use any of their characters/worlds/etc. in your game? Furthermore, are some industries more supportive than others

I can only think of a single case where a company accepted a fan game (Vivendi and KQIX), but I have seen quite a few cases where some of the original creators of a game will give their okay (for what it's worth).  Companies are in business to make money, and regardless of the age of a game they consider it an infringement on their rights to make money from the title in the future if someone makes a fan game that happens to be really good...which is also rare.

[Linda]

Thank you all so much for taking part in the discussion! This is all really informative and will help me a lot!

I would like to commend on Snarky,

Incidentally, ScummVM is not a tool that helps you create games.

I know, it was a bad choice of words (I got some comment on it on other forums as well). What I should have said was, 'just anything that would help you make(produce) a game'. ScummVM would of course be used as an engine.

And @ Radiant
Media en Cultuur, waarbij je drie richtingen hebt, film, televisie en nieuwe media, waarbij dit natuurlijk een paper wordt voor de laatste! Super interessante studie, ik kan hem iedereen aanraden!

[Radiant]

Media en Cultuur, waarbij je drie richtingen hebt, film, televisie en nieuwe media, waarbij dit natuurlijk een paper wordt voor de laatste! Super interessante studie, ik kan hem iedereen aanraden!

Okee. Als je nog meer vragen hebt, ik woon in de buurt

_{Edit by Andail: Translated. Only English here please!
Edit by Radiant: oui monsieur. Babelfish ftw!}

Media and culture, which has three majors: film, television and new media. This paper is obviously for the latter! Very interesting study, I can recommend it to everyone!

Okay. If you have more questions, I live in the neighborhood

[radiowaves]

A lot of successful fan-projects are going on that are disliked by the original creators (LucasArts HATE fan input)

I guess I would hate it too, if some amateurs made a successful fan game out of my theme. It would totally suck and ruin the world I created.

[LUniqueDan]

I guess I would hate it too, if some amateurs made a successful fan game out of my theme. It would totally suck and ruin the world I created.

I think Lucasarts don't really need Fan-made games to ruin the characters and the worlds they created - they're totally able to do it alone.

[radiowaves]

Heh. Then maybe I am lucky because I haven't played MI3 and 4, simply I didn't bother to get them work on XP.

[Linda]

Thank you all so much for all the great information!
I've written the paper and am now awaiting my grade..
I'll keep you posted   

[Magic]

Hi Linda.

My last adventure game-based project wasn't an adaption of Monkey Island but it was certainly inspired by it (What adventure games aren't?). It's an IT helpdesk simulation called Techs. Check it out here. I knew a few people who were doing an adaption of MI and I was virtually doing one myself ("The Legend of Monkey Island") but that was just one of several basic fan ideas around the time of Curse of Monkey Island around ten years ago.

For your second question, regarding Mr Jerkin's article, I agree with the first two points but not the third - there are several games that people mod without specific approval or encouragement of the industry (thus making them practically "hacks" - the work of the modders, not the companies). Some people just do what they want if it's possible. I suppose any general encouragement for game X may entice a coder to experiment with game Y, though.

For some of the specific questions of the second part, I don't actually know since I'm not in the MI community. I do know that LEC have discouraged fan-made MI games with their 'cease and desist' legal proclamations (Was it 'Shawarts' or someone who did a decent MI game that was virtually threatened, I think?), but corporate-wise that is their responsibility, to protect their copyrights.

- Is it true that corporate industries support participatory cultures, or would they actually just sue you if you would use any of their characters/worlds/etc. in your game? Furthermore, are some industries more supportive than others

Several companies are very encouraging, though some modders get irritated at companies that release tools when the programs aren't COMPLETELY suitable for what what they want to do and aren't easy and convenient enough for them to use. Blizzard and Relic, as examples, usually release a mapmaking program and sometimes other tools with their games while other developers don't give out anything and it's usually too much effort (and uncertain whether it will be appreciated) for someone to eventually code some tools themselves. Modmaking prolongs the life of a game and it can attract some gamers to it just for modding, so I think both contribute to sales somehow (thereby justifying the specific effort to the publisher). I think developers also like to see what people do with their work and not to let their ~two years of hard work pass by as another consumed product.

For whether "some industries more supportive than others" I presume you mean developers of different genres - I don't think there are any differences here, though it's easier to mod, and therefore support, certain genres. RTS and FPS games are popular while I don't know about much fan-made support for sports games.

There's a thin line with productions that border on copyright infringement. The best thing I can do here is to cite an example from many years ago in the StarCraft community. To summarise, a guy called 'The Oracle' had a very successful campaign called "Legacy of the Confederation" and as campaigns go it had all the works - new units, animated portraits, voice acting, music and even movie cinematics. I think it was when Blizzard were bought by Vivendi that they had a shake-up in their legal department and Oracle was contacted. All they wanted, however, was for his copyright text to be set with specific words, such as changing "campaign" to "mod" since this apparently includes the connotation of "fan-made" with it, thereby achieving the effect of something like helping, for lack of a better term, 'dimwitted' players to realise that his work was not an official Blizzard product. So I think this demonstrates what companies have to do - protect their copyrights. They didn't demand that he take his campaign off the internet and never do it again, I think that's an important point before people rage against "The Man"!
Blizzard, as far as I'm aware, have never severely clamped down on unauthorised programs that I know of which by legal rights I'm sure they could have. I think they just paid a blind eye to it since it wasn't worth their time or effort and they weren't a threat (Unlike, say, Diablo 2 cheating hacks or battle.net emulators).

It sounds like a very interesting study that you're doing and I've bookmarked Mr Jerkin's article (If I get the time I'll read it - I hope to at least). I run a modmaking site (www.samods.org) and I'm interested in how this applies to general fan-made productions.

That was a long post - I guess it was because I've just done a final university report (for the helpdesk simulation I mentioned above) and I know how much feedback is valued (and it adds to your wordcount ).

I hope that helps.

Edit: Lol, I just realised that this post is practically obsolete. That's my fault for not reading the whole thread. I hope you enjoy it anyway. 

[Linda]

yeah, to bad I read it just now, I would have loved to include some of your info in my paper! Thanks anyway!

Although, I don't think it would have made a difference in my grade, cause... It doesn't really come better then this...:
I got a 9,5!! That's out of 10! (Dutch system) So basically, that's an A!!!!! woehoe

[Bohnito]

congrats

[LUniqueDan]

Congrats for your mark, Linda.

Is this possible to have an abstract of your conclusions?
The subject is interesting.

[Radiant]

w00t!