I've always felt that there was something a bit silly about the inventories of adventure games where a player can carry virtually anything.Ã, Its not bad when a light game pokes fun at the convention but it sort of undermines the serious tone I'm going for in my own game.
Some time ago, I posted regarding a system that would assign inventory items mass so that the player was limited to a maximum weight he could carry.Ã, That might still be a viable solution but I had another idea that might also be good.
I'd like to create a secondary inventory for larger items, that are stashed by the playercharacter somewhere within the game environment (one of the first game puzzles would be to find a suitable location).Ã, Ostensibly when the player accesses this inventory, the player character is actually retrieving the item from the stash offscreen.Ã, For this reason the 2nd inventory would only be accessible when the player has the freedom to retrieve it.
I'd also like to have a 3rd inventory.Ã, This would be in the form of the player character's brain, storing ideas rather than objects.Ã, These ideas would be obtained through observations, conversations, etc. and would be used to ask NPCs questions, and specify what it is you're trying to build when you combine object x with object y, etc.Ã, Should the player get ahead of the player character so that he/she knows the idea without having obtained the idea inventory object, a text parser should be available so the player can type in the idea that he thinks he needs and be awarded the idea object.Ã, (Is that clear?)
Anyway, GUIs and text parsers are two aspects of AGS that I have not delved into previously, so I wanted to get some feedback about these ideas before I try to implement them.
Thanks.
Quint,
The inventory within the game world sounds like a very neat idea. As I see it though,
the problem you face with that is, if your game is multi-location, you're really going to annoy some players by having to take them back to this location (a garage for example) every time you want to stock up or take out the larger items in it.
To avoid that, you could just skip having to travel back there and just have the second inventory on screen. But at the same time, whats the point? Instead of having two inventories that are ideally doing the same thing - you may aswell just have one inventory.
This idea I think, could certainly work for a puzzle (your idea of finding a location and storing things in it) but I wouldn't rely on that "place" as an ACTUAL inventory for the whole game.
On the other hand, if the game is only say - ten screens long or with only a few locations, it could work much better.
The third inventory sounds awesome, but something like that would surely be far too complex to create and far to complex for the average adventure player to want to have to work out? I mean, "thoughts" could be an absolutley infinite - how would you make sure the player knew what kind of things to choose, or type into a parser?
I like the weight idea. Hasn't there been games where you can only store a certain amount though? I'm pretty sure people moaned about that... :/
:)
Have you ever played Quest for Glory, Quint? QFG has weighted inventory and a chest in the player's inn room to keep extra items and stock. It's a great idea, very realistic.
-- Would your game be purely adventure, or RPG/Adventure?
-- Are you saying that when the character is able to access the 2nd inventory, the game flashes a black screen, or what not, indicating the character went to where the inventory would be to get the item?
-- What items are in your thoughts when you think of silly items?
Quote from: m0ds on Thu 23/09/2004 01:24:48
The inventory within the game world sounds like a very neat idea. As I see it though,
the problem you face with that is, if your game is multi-location, you're really going to annoy some players by having to take them back to this location (a garage for example) every time you want to stock up or take out the larger items in it.
To avoid that, you could just skip having to travel back there and just have the second inventory on screen. But at the same time, whats the point? Instead of having two inventories that are ideally doing the same thing - you may aswell just have one inventory.
I agree that it would be annoying for the player to have to return to the screen where everything is being stored.Ã, When I said that he was retrieving stuff off screen IÃ, meant that the player would not actually have to go to the room but that it was implicit when using that inventory which could be accessed from anywhere.Ã,Â
What's the point?Ã, Peace of mind that it would be more realistic than storing everything in your jacket, and a few limitiations that might be exploitable for interesting puzzles.Ã, Maybe that's not a good enough reason.
Quote from: m0ds on Thu 23/09/2004 01:24:48
The third inventory sounds awesome, but something like that would surely be far too complex to create and far to complex for the average adventure player to want to have to work out? I mean, "thoughts" could be an absolutley infinite - how would you make sure the player knew what kind of things to choose, or type into a parser?
Basically, I'm looking for ways to limit a player's trial and error method of combining items together to stumble toward a puzzle solution. I don't want to deal with infinite possibilities and I don't certainly don't want to turn off the average adventure gamer.
Quote from: QuantumRich on Thu 23/09/2004 01:41:12
Have you ever played Quest for Glory, Quint? QFG has weighted inventory and a chest in the player's inn room to keep extra items and stock. It's a great idea, very realistic.
No, I haven't played it.Ã, I was pretty sure that I wasn't inventing the wheel with the idea though.Ã, I'm just trying to learn why these things aren't implemented more.
Quote from: WanderLady on Thu 23/09/2004 01:45:31
-- Would your game be purely adventure, or RPG/Adventure?
-- Are you saying that when the character is able to access the 2nd inventory, the game flashes a black screen, or what not, indicating the character went to where the inventory would be to get the item?
-- What items are in your thoughts when you think of silly items?
I've never played an RPG so I'm not sure if there would be some overlapping of genres.
The screen would not flash black.Ã, The inventory would work exactly as the typical inventory except instances when you'd receive a message saying:Ã, "You can not return to your stash at the moment." because you were faced with an immediate obstacle.
I'm not sure I understand your third question, but I wouldn't bother dignifying silly thoughts with idea items.Ã, The items would generally be represented by words, eg. "torch".Ã, The item could be used to ask the storekeeper if he sells flashlights or to construct a torch from some regular inventory items.
quint,
by thoughts on silly items I think he means "Ladder" and "Life Size Model of Battleship" being stored in the EGO's pants.
I think I'd need more reason for objects to have mass and such and not just for realistics. In QFG [any many RPGs] the more objects you have the slower you move because they're heavy. Or you sink in water because you're too heavy. This forces you to pick what's important or you feel is important to the quest and ditch everything else either on the ground or in a specific spot like a chest or a bag or under a bed [see King's Quest 3 also]
If you want to be realistic than I suggest making the player walk back and go to the stash which isn't really that bad unless the game world is huge or there are a lot of big objects that require constant swapping.
Or just don't use objects that wouldn't make sense to be able to be carried in a pocket. How many objects are in your game? Does it get to a point where the player has too many objects that it just seems silly or are you designing it so that you can use the mass feature?
mods: the thoughts system would really be no different than the notebook in lara bow and discworld noir, so if you think about it like that I'm sure you can see how it wouldn't be that difficult to make. Dave Gilbert did it.
I thought about adding a thoughts thing [hell of a sentence] for my current game where you put an inventory item in your "brain" and then he thinks about it and applies what he knows about it to given situations, like if a stick is in your brain [ow!] and you look at a window he'll say "The stick could easily break through the window." or something.. But anyway, I think the idea of a thoughts GUI is a good one.
Quote from: MrColossal on Thu 23/09/2004 03:21:15by thoughts on silly items I think he means "Ladder" and "Life Size Model of Battleship" being stored in the EGO's pants.
Yeah, this is what I meant, Quintaros.
What serious, usable objects are you thinking for the 2nd inventory -- ladder, crowbar, boards...?
How does a character even carry the several
smaller items it amasses, like a hammer, or money, magazines, whatever, etc.? We are to assume backpack or pockets(cargo pants, maybe :P), but these things aren't really drawn with the character. Being a computer game, I guess that leeway is given, but it's good you're thinking of ways to make it resemble actuality.
Quote from: Quintaros on Thu 23/09/2004 02:02:26The screen would not flash black. The inventory would work exactly as the typical inventory except instances when you'd receive a message saying: "You can not return to your stash at the moment." because you were faced with an immediate obstacle.
Is traveling involved, or does the character gain access to the item without having to move?
Quote from: Quintaros on Thu 23/09/2004 01:12:59Should the player get ahead of the player character so that he/she knows the idea without having obtained the idea inventory object, a text parser should be available so the player can type in the idea that he thinks he needs and be awarded the idea object. (Is that clear?)
Do you mean the player picking up objects without really knowing the reason for doing so? I'll try an example of your idea:
-- Graham or Guybrush, see a fallen branch. They have not yet come to the part of the game here the branch is usable, therefore they cannot pick it up. Later in the game they come to a vicious dog guarding Eric's "Life Size Model of Battleship". The player opens up the "brain" to the observations category, and finds "In my passing through the park, I saw a sickly looking tree. Many of it's branches were scattered upon the grass." The player takes that "thought item" and clicks it on the dog. "'Good idea!' says Grahambrush." The player can now go get the branch. Something like that, maybe.
Just a quickie - by "thoughts" and whatnot has kinda been done before, in Discworld Noir and in Zork Grand Inquisitor (sort of - no thoughts there, but spells). It worked very nicely. And it actually worked a bit like WanderLady described.
Yeah, Black Dahlia also had clue-notes like Discworld Noir, but they weren't quite as good. The manipulation of clues in Discworld Noir was a really interesting use of a brain-type inventory. Discworld 1 also had an inventory of skills gained by the Player Character, though it was a little underused.
We could do with a hundred new and imaginative inventories like the kinds you're all talking about here.
No, Black Dahlia had a notebook where you could jot down anything you wanted. And sometimes Pearson wrote in it himself. Not the same at all.
Not the same, but in many respects similar, being a notebook filled with clues and all.
Not at all - said notes aren't inventory items. They're completely optional, similar in every regard to writing stuff down on paper yourself. The principle behind Discworld Noir is that of coorelating clues in-game, allowing Lewton to form conclusions. The notes in Black Dahlia (and Shannara, and Gabe Knight 3, and other such games) are an optional treat for the player.
Broken Sword has the innovation, that I also used in Awakening of the Sphinx, that you can use every inventory item as a conversation point, as well as any specific dialog options...
Many old text-based adventures had a weight system on the inventory. You could possibly also have other limits, for example, you can't put the fox nad the chicken or the chicken and the grain in your inventory at the same time, or something will get eaten, likte that old crossing the river riddle. Many games had mazes that were easiest solved by dropping inventory in the otherwsie identical rooms in order to be able to tell the difference. Other games had objects that you had to drop everything else in order to be able to pick up.
Also, if you sometimes have to drop objects, its worth considering if there is any risk nivolved in that: might an NPC steal objects that are jsut lying on the ground, or even ones you are holding? Dun Darach and Tir Na Nog had this...
...not to mention Zork. The old text adventures were probably the most innovative in inventory handling. You saw everything in those days.
Quote from: redruM on Thu 23/09/2004 13:38:42
Not at all - said notes aren't inventory items.
I would agree that, because of the dynamic manipulation of entries in Discworld Noir's notebook, it is much closer to a typical inventory than its Black Dahlia counterpart and is probably more fun. However, as a collection of ideas rather than objects I'd say that a notebook filled in by the character was an inventory of sorts -certainly closer to an inventory than anything else.
I'm not sure why a collection of ideas should be regarded as particularly distinct from a collection of objects. In Blade Runner none of the inventory items can be manipulated or used in the traditional way because they are records of evidence which help the player to solve puzzles. I don't see that as being far removed from Pearson recording information that helps the player solve the game's mysteries.
Redrum, and I hope I haven't misunderstood you, would you argue that the Kia in Blade Runner wasn't an inventory?
I haven't played it yet, but from what I've heard, I will agree that it records and uses non-material objects similar to an inevntory, but not quite. Like Discworld Noir's notebook.
Yes, a collection of ideas IS no more than a conllection of inv objects. BUT for that to happen you must be able to USE such ideas like you'd use inv items. Let's put it another way - in order to win Discworld Noir, you had to deduce stuff, which only happened when you confronted 2 different clues. That's not so different from use inv with inv, only in an abstract plain. Whereas Jim Pearson's notebook did little more than record runes. That was the whole point of the notebook. It wasn't to be used, it was meant to be consulted, not unlike something you write down. It was, indeed, quite optional, and only made things easier on the player, when in Discworld Noir (and Jack the Ripper, should I add? The old game, which consisted of making logical deductions, although some may argue about it, so I won't tarry on it) it was as fundamental as, say, using the clamp on the clothesline in the Longest Journey.
Thanks to everyone for their interesting comments.
I think I've got a handle on the 2nd inventory now. Instead of making 2 inventories, I will integrate the stash into the conventional inventory. I mean that when the player tries to pick up a large item such as a ladder, he will think to himself that he needs someplace to hide it for later use. Once he finds a good place to store it, he can pick it up in the normal way and it will be accessable through his normal inventory. I think this satisfies my annoying tendency toward literalism without becoming overly complicated.
SSH brought up several interesting quandaries that I was hoping to deal with as additional obstacles for the player. I think a lot of these things could be implemented using the conventional inventory system and that all they require is some scripting effort in their interactions. Good stuff.
I'm still not certain how to manage the idea inventory. I certainly wouldn't model it after the KIA in Blade Runner as it reduced the interaction of the game by automatically selecting the appropriate clue when needed. What redruM describes from Discworld seems closer to what I have in mind. I haven't played this game though, so I'll put forth the question, to redruM or others who have played it: "Was this aspect fun or an annoyance to the player?"
To me, it was fun. It mostly affected conversations - in conversations you had very few topics, but you could ask about any clue in your notebook. That was vital. Another use that clues had was, you could cross-reference them. Example: Clue 1= Mundy wrote AZIZ in blood on the wall, before he died. Clue 2=Mundy was hanging upside down. Cross reference - not ZIZ at all, but 212V - upside down.
You see? Another interesting thing was that coorelating ANY clue to another ALWAYS gave an interesting response, never a generic one.
Using a clue with a person, either on conversation or actually using it, might even make Lewton (the PC) bluff with the person, or threaten, or whatever - depending on the clue. Clues were added and removed as it seemed proper.
The downside is, it was great in an investigation game, such as Discworld Noir. I'm not sure how it would work in any other game. It might be akin to what some people saw as a fault in The Longest Journey - too much dialog instead of action. I don't subscribe to that, but I think that, unless well made, this Discworld Noir thingy will be boring. It takes a lot of planning, and I'm not sure it can fit any other sort of game other than an investigation game.
But then, I'm talking about the complex system that game had. I suppose that by narrowing it down to much less clues - that may not be really clues at all, depending on the game - it might be much more accessible. In the end, these gameplays issues can only be resoved by experimenting.
NOW REDUNDANT CURIOUS FACT - It's funny how the 1st two Discworld games managed that XXXL INV... the lugagge. When you stop to think of it, it's a very convenient device.
If you have a game where you have to get around in some sort of vehicle (like Gabriel Knight or P:DA) you could always have a message along the lines of "You put it in your car" (and have the character go off screen and return) when you pick up oversized objects, and "you get it out of the car" and have the character leave and return.
That way, your oversized items are near by, and your inventory isn't seen as looking in your pockets, but just a list of things you own.
I think the conversation inventory is an excellent idea, especially for detective-related games. For instance in the original Laura Bow you can always 'ask X about Y and Z' even if you have no clue what you're talking about, it's more fun if you have a list of topics that grows larger as you learn.
The 'huge items' thing sounds a bit less interesting from a design point of view. However, many text adventures have the restriction that you can only carry six items at any time (for instance), and several have puzzles that involve getting item X to room Y, when it's too large to fit through the obvious route from X to Y. Come to think of it SQIV has a puzzle at the beginning which is solved by not carrying the unstable ordnance.
I think AGS games could benefit from this puzzle potential.
I think the main problem with the idea inventory as it was used in Discworld Noir is that it creates an even wider gap between the player's mind and the character's. Ideally, I feel it should never be necessary to force the character to realize something, which the player has already figured out (without cheating and using information he could in no way have at this point - e.g. the license plate number in PQ4). redruM's example from Discworld Noir with the AZIZ clue could easily work without this interface, if the player knows that the guy was hanging upside down, he should be able to put two and two together without going through the mechanics of an interface.
If it's only used for conversation (or, for looking up information on a computer as in Bestowers of Eternity), I think it's fine - although I do prefer a traditional topic-list dialog interface to the notebook of Dagger of Amon Ra: You end up running through the list anyway, you just spend more clicks doing it with the notebook.
Although the text interface of QFG2 and Colonel's Bequest probably is the only interface, which really limits the range of topics to the player's knowledge and imagination, I think the dialog interface in QFG4 worked pretty well too, as a somewhat more complex and specific variant of the GK1 dialog interface.
You're true about the wider gap - but then, that'd bring us to another point: who's the character? You, as in Myst? Lewton? Or something in the middle, like, you CONTROL that character and therefore what YOU think and deduce is whathever the character thinks/deduces?
That really depends on how the game makers want to make it. Of course, the best way is always keeping the character's identity and personality to the fullest WITHOUT going through the bothersome stuff. Like in Gabe Knight, realizing what to write on the graveyard wall... THERE'S a great example of character development while still allowing the player to think for himself.
Anyway, I digress (read "ramble").
To keep in the player character, you could always have part of the puzzle to explain to an NPC why the writing is upside-down or whatever. Is that the best of both worlds?
Hmmm, maybe not, but maybe something like a database where you could type in 212V... I'm reminded of Anchorhead, where you could find out very interesting things if you checked the BIRTHs and DEATHs records. But you had to make the link yourself - once you did, you'd know WHAT to search for. Maybe THIS is the best... leave everything ready for the player to see and advance ONCE he makes the link in his mind.
Another example (although of a different nature) is the code-craking bits in Black Dahlia. We have to figure out ourselves which numbers to call, and in one particular occasion, WHO we want to talk to (TYPE IT!). THIS worked very well, and may be the best way. It's a shame Black Dahlia was so riddled with gratuitous puzzles, it was quite a gem.
Well I think that Black Dahlia is still a gem (except for the octagonal maze) mainly due to it original setting. I dig Art Deco.
I wanted to type that I don't have any problems with carrying too much items; then I remembered how Gabriel took a looong pole from Africa to New Orleans, carrying it in his pants, and I changed my mind.
The slickest inventory, which was fun to play with, was in a c-64 adventure game Deja Vu. Each object that was a container (starting with your detective coat) had its own window. It's a pity they didn't make it important, as it had absolutely no impact on the game whether you kept your pistol in the open or in your coat.
This game rocked, anyway.
Goldmund, just to throw this out there, there's a sequel to Deja Vu [I played the first on the NES] called Deja Vu 2: Lost in Time or something
Shadowgate and Uninvited also using the same engine I believe...
Oh I know, Erico, it's "lost in Las Vegas", but I got irritated with it because they had this idiotic idea of making the actual time count, and at a point you die just because of taking too long. The same was in Uninvited, but as this game reeked atmosphere, I liked it much more (although never could defeat zombies in the garden...)
I never played Shadowgate, though. Isn't it by Legend? I've never met this kind of inventory in a Legend game.
On the notebook kind of idea, has anyone else played "Murder on the Mississippi"? I had it on my C64. You went around interrogating people, and you could highlight parts of their text onscreen and save it to a notebook. Then you went around and asked other people about the words/sentences that you thought were relevant from the first person's conversation.
It was a great idea, but it didn't work fantastically. I had trouble working out exactly which phrases were necessary to get a meaningful response. It's a nice kind of in-between, not automatic like Disworld Noir's but also not completely open.
- Punch
That sounds very much like Jack the Ripper (the old game) - you looked for clues everywhere, and them compared them in order to make logical assumptions in game. With many clues being red herrings.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Thu 23/09/2004 20:32:03
I think the main problem with the idea inventory as it was used in Discworld Noir is that it creates an even wider gap between the player's mind and the character's.
I must admit, though I'm a proponent of that type of inventory I did work out the upside-down puzzle long before Lewton and that was a little frustrating. I'm not sure if this necessarily distances the player though.
Perhaps it could just allows players to manipulate characters' thoughts in the same way that we're used to controlling their physicality and making their decisions.
I'm playing Discworld Noir at the moment. It's AZILE written on the wall by Mundy, which turns intoÃ, 3715V....Sorry. After reading a lot of the posts, there's some things I agree with and others which I don't. I like the idea of the seperate inventories. As you basically said it is annoying to have a guy carrying a 12 foot ladder, a crowbar and a bicycle all in his jacket pockets. I think that the idea of a central location for these mass objects is a good one although maybe if you had different locations for different ones it would be better. For example: Your character could need a ladder to access a first floor window. You've found the ladder in the neighbours garage. He could have to make the decision to leave his other objects in the garage and use the ladder. I've played some RPG's and there are some good ideas and a lot blur the lines between adventure and RPG... The idea of a maximum inventory weight, as somebody already mentioned, is one that appeals. I've had some inspiration from this post and have decided that my character will have a rucksack/plastic bag in which he can place a certain number of objects.
Lewtons notebook in Discworld is a good idea but in reality can be slightly annoying. I think that there's probably a good balance between luck and finding the exact formula. I think this applies to the method of highlighting a certain sentence or typing a sentence. The problem with the latter is that the player would have to type exactly the right wording in. I think for maybe a number....e.g. telephone number 736492 or safe number 3729....this works. I played a demo for a Sherlock Holmes adventure game recently. It has some interesting parts. There's a notebook, which records questions and answers of conversations, and a list of clues he has collected (e.g. Door handle to pantry had sauce on it). If you pinch the best ideas from good games I think you're onto a winner....Some cross referencing of notes, some memories/thoughts collected in a log, limited personal inventory, location only mass objects (or a novel way of transporting one at a time...trolley maybe...or a favour from somebody you helped - they transport it in a van), using some of the players memory as well (an important number, a code word etc.).
Sorry for the lack of structure in my post, it's a bit of a rant.
I don't really think you need separate inventories. How about just making 'ghostly' icons (black and white or bluish, transparent looking) for the 'imaginary objects' which the player character will go fetch from elsewhere, when they are needed?
I remember Shadow of Memories had a ladder, which you could 'pick up', but the character would only actually go get when you used it in the proper place.
QuoteIt's AZILE written on the wall by Mundy, which turns into 3715V....Sorry.
I know, I didn't bother replaying it just to give an example.
GarageGothics, that's a good one that's been used in a LOT of games, not just SoM. The hook in Phantasmagoria, the hose in SQ6...
Quote from: entry_level_model on Sat 25/09/2004 01:47:36
I'm playing Discworld Noir at the moment. It's AZILE written on the wall by Mundy, which turns into 3715V....
While we're being pedantic, we might as well get it right. The number after turning the word upside-down is in fact '371
2V'
I was just going to mention the SQ6 hookah hose, but you can actually keep the entire thing in your inventory. It's just that when you use it, you have to use it on two dfferent hotspots one after the other to make it work.
So far, we have:
• separate inventories; one on the player, another somewhere in-game
• virtually separate inventories; a "ghost" sprite (semi-transparent, tinted, etc.) that indicates it's not physically on or with the player, but is retrievable
• special items that aren't on the player but it is possible to retrieve and use the item, through the inventory
Has anybody ever given thought to "Knowledge Inventories" or "Idea Inventories"? Basically, a separate inventory where once the player knows, figures out, or thinks of a certain idea or topic, it is added. If the player has, say, the "Knows Kung-Fu" knowledge inventory item, then (s)he can perform a particular task. It would be easy for the player to see what the character knows, thinks, likes, etc. Much like The Sims, but limited to things required by the game, maybe even to affect the outcome of it.
Oh, and the knowledge inventories could possibly be extended to conversations, where the player can ask about an item he knows about, a skill he has, or something that has been puzzling him for awhile. Things could also randomly pop up in the KI that the player can use when needed, like the "Why IS the sky blue??" KI item. :P
QuoteIf the player has, say, the "Knows Kung-Fu" knowledge inventory item, then (s)he can perform a particular task.
Like in Discworld 1, you mean... except it'd actually be useful (it had precious little use in Discworld).
In Circuit's Edge - a really cool cyberpunk RPG - and in Neuromancer you could have installed "chips" in your character that allowed them to, for example, play music.
It was nice in CE how having different chips installed affected the main character's personality - he became paranoid, aggressive etc. according to the activated skill, a sort of a side effect.
Never played Discworld, but basically it would be an extensional of a game's "Ask About" internal list, like in the "Tex Murphy" games, as well as the game's internal methods of tracking how "good" or "bad" a player's been, to affect game outcome...except the player can view it and, therefore, has the opportunity to figure out what he must do in order to change or keep going.
Quote from: QuantumRich on Mon 27/09/2004 01:49:29
Has anybody ever given thought to "Knowledge Inventories" or "Idea Inventories"? Basically, a separate inventory where once the player knows, figures out, or thinks of a certain idea or topic, it is added. If the player has, say, the "Knows Kung-Fu" knowledge inventory item, then (s)he can perform a particular task. It would be easy for the player to see what the character knows, thinks, likes, etc. Much like The Sims, but limited to things required by the game, maybe even to affect the outcome of it.
Maybe not exactly what you're referring to, but I was thinking a while ago about a sort of "concept inventory"... where in addition to the "look", "interact", "walk to", etc. icons there's a "remember" icon which adds what's clicked on (assuming it's at all significant) to the "concept inventory". The purpose of the "concept inventory" would be to allow the PC to ask NPCs about things not in the current room. For instance, if there's a strange statue in one room of the castle, the PC can "remember" it and then later as the king (who's elsewhere in the castle) about the statue by selecting it from his concept inventory and clicking on the king...
After thinking about this for some time, I decided I'm probably not going to use this for the game I had it in mind for--it would add another level of complexity that wouldn't be worth the payoff--but it may be worthwhile for a detective-type game or some other game for which asking NPCs about objects could play a bigger role...
I'm big on quoting from games, apparently, but ALun_Clewe seems to be describing something similar to Lure of the Temptress, where you could TELL people to go someplace, do such-and-such action on such-and-such object, and etc. Whatever you SAW, whatever place you WERE IN, whatever you even SAW THROUGH A WINDOW, you could use in your commands.
Quote from: redruM on Tue 28/09/2004 06:43:41
I'm big on quoting from games, apparently, but ALun_Clewe seems to be describing something similar to Lure of the Temptress, where you could TELL people to go someplace, do such-and-such action on such-and-such object, and etc. Whatever you SAW, whatever place you WERE IN, whatever you even SAW THROUGH A WINDOW, you could use in your commands.
I'm not familiar with Lure of the Temptress--what kind of game is it?
I know that allowing the player to ask characters about and otherwise refer to objects that aren't present is extremely common in text adventures, but AFAIK it hasn't been implemented in any pure point-and-click graphic adventures, though I freely admit that my familiarity with the genre is far less than complete and it's entirely possible it has been done in some adventure I'm unaware of. How was it implemented in Lure of the Temptress? The way you describe it sounds like it involved typed commands (in which case, no big deal; as I said, that's old hat in text adventures); is this the case, or was it implemented purely by point and click? And if the latter, how?
Lure of the Temptress was one of the early Point and click games by Revolution Software. I think you can now get it free at their website (I am not sure what the address is, you could probably get it from google). It used a rather uncommon GUI (as far as my experience with Adventure games goes). The interactions generally depended on the objects they were used on (ie. "Drink" came up for bottle and "read" for note). as redruM said, whenever you looked at an object or passed through a room, it was stored in your GUI, and you could interact with other characters and ask them to "GO to Room-X", "Get Object-Y" or "Talk with Person-Z"
Actually the whole concept of ordering people around can lead to many interesting puzzles. This has been extensively used in some old Infocom games, but not (to my knowledge) in any P&C games.
E.g. you can "squirrel, eat nut" to order it around. Of course not everybody does exactly what you tell them to. "warrior, give me the sword" simply means he'll tell you 'no'.
I'm somewhat at a loss as to how to implement this point-n-click-wise, though.
WEll, in Space Quest V, in addition to the Talk icon, there was an Order icon, which was just the Talk balloon with an exclamation mark inside. You could do this, then a prompt would come up and you could type in your order. I believe that a combination of text input and point-and-click would make the best interface.
And in "Dr Who in the mines of terror" you had a programmable cat, which led to great puzzles.
You threw around markers for it to use, and programmed commands like:
Go to marker 1
Pick up object
Go to marker 2
Use object
Which also reminds me of the body computer in two B.A.T. episodes (also point and clicks). It had it's own scripting language, and it was a lot of fun programming it, so that for example when you talked to an alien, a translator would start, or when in danger, your blood pressure would go up. Ah, French games! How I love you.
You can find Lure of the Temptress, legally and for free, at http://revolution.co.uk/_display.php?id=10