Hello,
My name is Eric, you may remember me from such games as "6 Day Assassin" and "Time Out" [if anyone remembers Time Out then you get a cookie].
Anywho, I'm here with a question.
Sylpher and I made Insta-Game, http://sylpher.com/ig almost 3 years ago and we were excited.
Many conversations with various people later on why hardly anyone used it brought up the following reasons:
1. It was too limiting.
2. It was too open.
Not very helpful.
So now I ask the forums in general. Why after so many years did so few people use Insta Game?
Now I know no one asked for it and I can't expect people to just jump up and use something that they didn't ask for, and this isn't me going all "Boo hoo, why don't you play with my toys?!" I'm just curious.
Dave Gilbert made an excellent game mixing IG and RON together, MillsJRoss made 2 [?] games with it, Erica McLane made 1, there were a few hour games and maybe a few more scattered here and there [or am I wrong and there are tons out there?]
The reason IG was created was because people complain about not being able to make graphics easily and people always link them to RON, so I was hoping that IG would act as a secondary source for games that didn't have to take place in RON.
Is it because there was no starting game like there was RON [not that I personally wanted another RON]. Some people said to me that it was too hard to come up with ideas to fit the backgrounds and characters and I just can't buy that at all.
So, anyone wanna try helping me out? I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to sound whiny or boohooy, I just want some feedback. It's just frustrating to think I'm doing something good for people and the majority of feedback I seem to get is people saying "Yea this is great for placeholder art or making test games..."
Love,
Eric
EDIT: Oh yes and I forgot to mention, IG has been downloaded a little around 5000 times this year...
I guess some people just don't like to use "standardized" graphics, which would make a lot of games feel the same. I know I wouldn't. But I still believe the pack is extremely useful, and I'm still waiting for some game packs.
The problem, of course, is that using the game pack and NOTHING ELSE would make all insta-games similar, unless a miracle happened. As a matter of fact, most insta-games out there ARE very similar - "A Better Mouse Trap" being the exception, that's a work of art.
And if you use other graphics WITH the insta-game, the graphic style would have to be fitting, wouldn't it? And speaking of which, with the insta-game as it is, you can't really make a "serious" game, as the graphics are pretty cartoony.
Insta Game is the reason I use AGS today.
I used that silly little alien and his little cave to create a small game where the character walked from one cave to the other.
That's it. Nothing else ever happened in my little game. Now, while many feel compelled to release works of art such as this...I did not.
Without something so easily accessable where I could import the backgrounds and characters and start to understand the basics of AGS I doubt I would have ever started using it. My little "demo" game looked really good (to me) and took only about an hour or so to make. The fact that it looked "good" is probably the reason I stuck with AGS.
On the other hand There was one problem with insta game. Unless if you were making a space game you were rather stuck.
I would love to see an insta game 2 where you have a basic male schmo, female schmo-et, with basic walk animations, and a basic small town for them to walk around in. I think this could open up the possibilities a little.
I guess my point is, I consider InstaGame to be more a part of AGS than even the real demo game. So it has served a great purpose for me. It has been in my sig since as long as I have known what a sig was. So, thank you Eric and Sylpher, and please, make another one ;) It will get used. Just because you don't always see it doesn't mean it doesn't help people out.
InstaGame changed my life!
:P
later,
-junc
I would have to agree with juncmodule here
i've used IG extensively since it's release. art (or lack of) is the reason nothing proper of mine has been finished, IG has allowed me to try what i wanted with ags without having to do a whole new set of art on the side of the stuff i already do..
I did start making one proper game with it, but it turned out to be a silly star wars / trek spoof :)
Quote from: redruM on Tue 08/06/2004 06:42:32
I guess some people just don't like to use "standardized" graphics, which would make a lot of games feel the same. I know I wouldn't.
Right, don't use that generic emotionless spaceman, use Roger instead --> :D
Actually I think the IG should got its content increased, currently there're only a few errr... things in it, making all games made with it looked identical.
I would have to chalk myself up as one of the people who used the instagame gfx for testing the AGS engine.
I agree with Gilbot that the pack is a bit low on content. Maybe packing it all into a template would make it more accessible to people?
All it needs is more backgrounds, in various themes.
More characters, too, like a space girl in tank top. ;D
You could make an Insta-Game .agt file template... that would make it even easier to use.
I downloaded it to use as reference when drawing or for an occasional hour game i never upload. My main problem with it is the fact they are pcx files, I didnt have a converter till a while ago. Many people dont have psp or photoshop etc...
Quote from: MrColossal on Tue 08/06/2004 06:08:23
The reason IG was created was because people complain about not being able to make graphics easily and people always link them to RON, so I was hoping that IG would act as a secondary source for games that didn't have to take place in RON.
Oops.
i think IG would be tonnes better if it was more of a tutorial source like with walk animations and wireframes of different roms so people could colour things and do their own characters but alot easier. Could it maybe include some basic codes as well? I used instagame when i first started and it helped me loads. it gave me a good point to learn graphics form.
I would've used IG, but at that time.. I had no idea what character went with what or how to exactly cut them all out and little stupid things like that.
It was just kindof a big mess of good art I wanted to use, but didn't exactly know HOW..
And yes, there wasn't much to choose from.
Quote from: juncmodule on Tue 08/06/2004 08:18:10
On the other hand There was one problem with insta game. Unless if you were making a space game you were rather stuck.
I would love to see an insta game 2 where you have a basic male schmo, female schmo-et, with basic walk animations, and a basic small town for them to walk around in. I think this could open up the possibilities a little.
Heh but this makes no sense! If we did that people would have said "Now we're stuck making a game set in a town!"
And I disagree that you couldn't make a serious game with IG.
However I never thought of the whole unable to open PCX files thingie [and at the time I thought MSPaint could open them because that's what I used to make my Alien Test Game...]
zooty: I already have tons of tutorials on my site and I even made a tutorial just for making backgrounds for Insta Game. All the colours I used came with the game so you didn't have to guess or load a room up to steal colours, I still think people would have just taken the wire frame walk cycles and used them for other games.
as for there being too little art in the pack: RON started with even less. 3 walking characters and 8 backgrounds [about] and that took off somehow. Here are 3 walking characters and tons of backgrounds and objects and things and nothing.
Again I'm not whining and comlaining just very curious.
I tried to use IG at some stage, but all the animations were bundled into one file, and had to be split up before being imported into AGS...
you mean a sprite sheet?
Yes.. If they were already .cha files, then way more people would use it, I think.. Lazyness of people is not good.. But if you don't take it into consideration, your projects will fail.
Anyways.. Yes.. That's what I forgot about.. The PCX file format threw me off. Paint saves in PCX, I believe.. But it mucks up everything due to compression rates and God knows what else.. And the spritesheets did too.. Mainly because I'm not a pixel artist.
QuoteHeh but this makes no sense! If we did that people would have said "Now we're stuck making a game set in a town!"
No! :D I mean do it now, not if you had done it instead of. I'm talking about expanding IG.
For me IG allowed me to learn how to import things into AGS, so having characters .cha files would kind of take that away. How is anyone ever going to learn? They already don't have to create their own graphics. That type of person doesn't have the dedication to finish a quality game anyway.
Regarding the PCX thing, I can't imagine that there isn't something out there that is free that would open them. However, I think since BMP is more widely available it would probably be better to convert them to it.
So, Eric, do you intend on doing any more with IG? Or are you just wondering why there is such little use of it?
later,
-junc
I was interested in IG for a while, but I couldn't find it. It was some time ago and I think I searched the forums for it, giving a lot of results, though none showing a link of where to find it. But 5000 downloads does seem to prove me wrong about it being hard to find.
Question/Suggestion: Can people add things they make for use in the IG environment, i.e. their own characters, backgrounds, objects, for other people to use? That would make the whole thing grow by itself, giving more possibilities of use.
just a thought....
It's been awhile, but I think I redrew some IG pics for "A Better Mousetrap." I took the desert oasis and a forest picture and merged them to create a forest with a lake. I think I might have done some others, but I don't remember.
Of course, I don't know if Mousetraps qualifies as an Insta-game anyway.
I would like to first of all point out Rodekill and Cornjobs additions to IG. They were very well done and IMO sorely under appretiated.
As far as new content goes. Both eric and I were a bit discourged to add new things when the old was hardly even being used.. Like "What's the use?". I can understand people using the graphics simply as placeholders and for test games because they are great pieces of art. Easy to throw in AGS and mess with rather then throwing something together in paint. Which is fine as far as I am concerned but I think it is that eric and I felt like we did a pretty big service for the community.
The response we got back in the original thread (I don't even know if it is still around but if it is go take a look) was amazing. We spent at least two months on IRC swapping images.. discussing characters and planets and ideas and structures and all that (And eric it was hella fun.. I never told you but it rocked).. And everything seemed to go great. It is like a game that you make and it is just a good time and everything lines up perfect.
But something didn't add up. In the end it wasn't used. I am with eric in the sentiment that we aren't upset or angry.. We want to know what WE did wrong. We want to know why if the creation was great. The response was great. And even the first couple months there was a lot of promise.. What in the end just kept everyone away?
I mean this month alone IG has gotten nearly 600 downloads (straight downloads.. not hits).. What are 600 of you doing with it??
Just curious.. :)
The advertising wasn't that great, I've never heard of it until this thread and I've been back for months now, nevermind that if this started 3 years ago I was here then. Must have missed the thread or something.
Its all over. I think somepeople have it in their sigs, and many have links off their websites. But I think the major issue is that the people that need these, or want to learn from them, are people that think "Space games are teh sux0rs." I say add more themes.
Something else I think may be helpfull would be to have everyone link to Eric's tutorial. That way people can get the idea of it, before they download it.
Quote from: Sylpher on Wed 09/06/2004 00:22:05
Both eric and I were a bit discourged to add new things when the old was hardly even being used.. Like "What's the use?".
Hmm...a logical faux pas, imo. On the contrary, more people will use it if you make it more extensive.
if CJ had used that argument, we wouldn't have AGS :)
But I see where you're heading.
except CJ didn't update AC to AGS until people started asking him to... or until people started using it...
Eric...I only made one game out of it. However, I did, and still do, have plans to make a sequel to my first IntastGame...in fact I planned on making a series. In fact, I have all the puzzles mapped out. So what's stopping me? I've commited myself not to work on anything else until AQ2 is finished, whenever that is.
As mentioned before, though. The graphics were limited to spacey games. It only had one tune (remind me to give you the tunes I made for mine). The file conversion was a bit on the annoying side. Mind you, the way you packed it, saved space...but perhaps you should point people to a free application that converts the files, so they can edit them.
I also feel that as the community is growing, and we get more poeple with artistic abilities, that people feel the need to make a game with millions of colors, when 256 will do. And while the graphics were great three years ago (and still are today), the community tends to go a different direction with graphics. Also, another problem, lies in that it's hard to edit these characters when you didn't make them. So if I want the main character to do something you haven't made, then I would have to go to you to make him. Because obviously I can't draw otherwise I wouldn't be using this tool.
As said, it's also used for people to practice with...so it is getting use, even though you don't see it. And you never know...I might just throw out a short InstaGame for the hell of it now (probably won't be involved with the last one). I think it's a great tool, and have always said so. I think that adding more graphics, and characters, would help to allow people to use this more.
-MillsJROSS
Sorry to dig this thread up again, but I've got a related question:
Is it O.K. to modify the graphics in the Instagame pack (e.g. recolour characters, add new bits to the backgrounds, etc), or should I just get on with making my own from scratch?
Like a lot of people, I guess, I dl'd the package when I first started using AGS, so I'd have some pre-done stuff to play with. Also like a plot of people though, I stopped using it when I realised the graphics wouldn't fit into the High Res, Mega Colour, 1,500 room, BEST AGS GAME EVAH!!!1!!!11 I had planned. Now I'm a little more experienced, I've decided to use it again, just to get something made. I would like it if the characters had up/down walkcycles, though. And, as has been said in a bunch of posts, different themes of packs would be nice, and although I can see why you wouldn't want to bother if you didn't think they'd be used, if you make them, they will get used.
do whatever you want with the art, we can't stop you and we wouldn't stop you.
unless you tried to sell it then we'd have problems.
good luck
It seems like IG ended up being the 'other half' of AGS for beginners, in the sense that, AGS itself is the engine, and IG is the artwork.
I'm sure a lot of people just starting out with AGS are reluctant to expend a ton of energy drawing sprites and rooms and things only to find out that the engine just isn't for them. I can understand that, totally.
The unfortunate side effect is that those games never really see the light of day, and so we get the impression that IG has been a failure, when it's really been very helpful for a ton of people.
I have to question the whole 'space theme' issue though. I know when I did the forest scenes my intentions were to make something as generic as possible that could be used in all kinds of scenarios.
I remember back in the day of AGC, there was a zip on the site with various graphics, MIDI's etc. I don't really know your intentions eric, but why don't you get a contribution from, well, anyone who'll contribute? Insta-Game will be the phattest .zip around..
Everybody has various artwork, even if not a lot I'm sure some will be happy to fill gaps. Lots of un-used artwork would help with different themes, too. Half made games with six backgrounds still create one theme.
It depends on your intentions!
When I first found Insta-Game a while ago, I opened it up and looked at it. As with many other people, I wasn't exactly sure how to make sprite grids to pull the sprites off the sprite sheets. Not caring about that for the moment, I tried to think of a storyline to fit with the empty backgrounds and few characters. I felt they constricted my level of thought, so I went on to other things.
I designed a few games here and there, half-finished one, but all of them came to a halt. So I asked myself: "Why can I not complete these games?" The answer was that I stopped because I didn't know what was ahead (scripting, animation, etc). I'd only draw a few characters and backgrounds, write out a plot, and then stop. I was unsure of how hard it would be to script, animate, and make music.
Then, I remembered Insta-Game. I downloaded it again, and began to code right away. I used the graphics as a base to have something to program with (as the AGS engine seems to need graphics in order to really program). My Insta-Game started to turn into something somewhat entertaining, so I decided to make it into my first real game (check my signature for the demo). With the practice in scripting I gained from using your graphics, I feel that I can make actual games now with my own graphics. So you've helped yet another newbie find his way into the game-making community.
The real flaw in Insta-Game is the lack of themes. As others have said, adding a small modern theme, and maybe an ancient/historical theme would really allow people to be more creative with AGS in terms of storyline. Most people who are excited about AGS are excited because they have "THE BEST STORY/IDEA EVER!!!!" If you give them the right graphics, they'll be able to make this adventure game they've been dreaming of making. As of right now, most Insta-Games will feel the same. I think that's the reason people aren't downloading my game demo, because it's an Insta-Game game rather than a made-from-scratch game...
I downloaded IG a while back. I think the reason I've not released anything with it, more than anything, was that the pixel art was good to a point that I was a bit intimidated. "What if I want to add in another character?" I asked myself. I just didn't think I'd be able to match up to its quality (my thinking has since changed a bit, but I'm still no artist).
On the other hand, just LOOKING at some of the stuff and playing around with it has been very useful to help me learn about AGS, so I'm definitely glad I downloaded it.
I d-loaded it a while ago and looked over things, but a "space theme" wasn't really what I was looking for at the time, though I may use some of it for a future project perhaps. I did use the "stick" graphic template for something though. ;)
Forgot to add that an Instagame Template with all the graphics all in there and the GUI in there and all ready to go would probably have encouraged more (of us lazy) people to use it. Proabably still would, too.