Adventure Game Studio

A month or so ago I realized I'm an idiot for not so much as attempting to monetize on The journey Down (http://"http://www.skygoblin.com). Thus I made up my mind: For better or for worse, chapter two was going to be a commercial release. After having done loads of painting and some early prototyping I realized I needed a better testing platform for the new framework than a brand new chapter.... So, the idea of JDHD was born.

What is JDHD?

In short, JDHD is (hopefully) going to be the polished up commercial release of chapter one of the Journey Down. A rather odd and economically suicidal venture, I must admit, but a fun one to build nonetheless!

So what makes JDHD more awesome than the original you might wonder?

Well, let me sum up some of the features I hope to implement:

* I hope to have a 1280 x 800 px canvas (depends on AGS development)
* pre-rendered 3d characters for smoother (and additional) animations
* a full voice cast
* more sound effects and feedback in general
* built in hint system for n00bs.
* additional puzzles and backstory.

So what is the purpose of this thread?

Well, at first I was going to create a "games in production" thread, but seeing how strictly those rules are being followed, I figured I'd stay clear of it until I have any real screenshots to show off. So the point of this thread really is primarily for me to vent some of my thoughts on this project, but also, hopefully a good place for discussions regarding the improvement from the original game.

Did you play it? Did some specific puzzle bother you? Did you encounter anything that felt broken or out ouf place? Was it too easy? Too short? Please, take this chance to make yourself heard! I am interested in improving as many aspects of the experience as possible.

Thirdly (is that a word?) I intend to post updates here with new assets as they drop in, to have a nice quick place to receive feedback in.

Not much actual feedback to give at the moment (getting kind of late...), but just wanted to say good luck with this. I'm sure JD has the potential to go commercial and seeing the game made in "HD" will be interesting. :)

Suicidal?
JD already was very professional. With the features you mentioned and the qualities the original already brought along the original might even help to sell the hd version. Look at Super Meatboy or the Monkey Island SEs (Most people already owned the original with them).
I'm very much looking forward to this and wish you the very best for your project and I hope it will be a sucess!!

If you do this I would buy 10 copies. But I think you should make the entire game, and not release it in chapters to buy, unless it's like $2 per chapter I don't think people will buy it.

Quote from: Armageddon on Mon 24/01/2011 01:41:19
But I think you should make the entire game, and not release it in chapters to buy [..]

I think this may actually be a good idea. Instead of the

Spoiler

airplane crashing scene being the end of the game, perhaps it should extend from there. That would definitely make a commercial release of a previously free title worthwhile. Obviously still adding the new puzzles and dialog like you suggested and perhaps adding different rooms and/or characters that the first title didn't have.

[close]

  The first episode should be free as sort of a hook, so that wasn't a mistake at all.  Considering the production quality of your game, you should certainly consider charging a small fee (like 3-5 US per bucks) for future episodes.

Of course I too played the game and I agree with the others.. Episode is way too short for a stand-alone commercial product despite its undeniable beauty. Also considering how long one has to wait for the next Episode to come out (and with no guarantee of it EVER even being released since this is no big company) I would find it very frustrating to pay for something that feels like ending right before it starts to get real exciting. Sure, it's good to finish a chapater with a cliffhanger but not of if you spent money for the chapter and would have to wait like one year for the next. That's just frustrating.

I definiately wish you all the best of luck. A product like this deserve to generate some money. And I do support indie games and spent money on them. But I would wait until I see the game released in its entirety before committing to it.

wersus and mode7: thanks!

Releasing the full game in one blast would no doubts make a bigger splash and would definitely justify charging money for it. However, there's no way I could ever scrounge up the resources to build the entire game in one go. Also, in the long run, I'm not sure I'd generate more revenue on one single full title than on the grand total of four separately sold chapters, but that's just a side note.

The obvious way to make chapter one a more attractive stand alone title is to sell it really cheap, and expand on it. Hopefully I'll be able to add enough game play that people don't feel ripped off. I have considered bundling chapter 1 with the first half hour of gameplay or so from chapter 2, sort of as an in-game teaser trailer to make people hunger for chapter 2. Another alternative is waiting until chapter 2 is finished and then releasing 1+2 in the same bundle. It would take me forever, but it's way more feasible than releasing the full game in one blast.

Regarding giving away the first episode for free as a hook, I'm confident the chapter 1 release I've got out now for free is working magic as a PR gimmick. It's spreading nicely, so that was no mistake. However, I'm not sure the "one chapter free" model is the best. Gamers tend to stop playing at certain milestones, and there's no milestone like the ending of a chapter. To combine that with a sudden "pay now to play more" pop-up, I fear may create a combined effect of making the player lose interest.

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback, I value it highly. Please keep it coming

If you hadn't wanted to do this I'm sure you would have been hounded by people who love your artwork any way.  I must say, I think the Episode 1 + 2 bundle is the option which would most appeal to me as a commercial game.

Quote from: theo on Mon 24/01/2011 08:55:20
Also, in the long run, I'm not sure I'd generate more revenue on one single full title than on the grand total of four separately sold chapters, but that's just a side note.

Considering you've only just thought of the idea of charging money a month ago, is this really such an issue?  Any revenue is better than the no revenue you were initially expecting.

But I don't blame you for wanting to make money for a game as beautiful as THD, you'd be mad not to.

However, I would rather avoid being put in a situation where I feel like I have to pay for chapter 1 even though I've already played it... even if you do add lots of extra goodies to it.

Quote from: theo on Mon 24/01/2011 08:55:20
I'm not sure the "one chapter free" model is the best. Gamers tend to stop playing at certain milestones, and there's no milestone like the ending of a chapter.

I don't think I agree.  I mean, of course there will be players who download chapter one because it's free and then not go on to play the others... but if you were to charge for it, those same people would be the first not to buy it.  At least by giving it away free you have a hook.  And at least some of them will go on to by the remaining chapters.

Take a look at The Dream Machine (http://www.thedreammachine.se/).  They have a system where chapter 1 is free and you can then choose to buy the remaining capters individually, or pay for them all up front for a discount.  I have pre-ordered the whole bundle, and I can tell you honestly that I would not have handed over a single penny had I not been able to play Chapter 1 first.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I've always liked "pay what you want" pricing schemes. They cater to both the generous and the cheap-asses, and there's a lot of flexibility. I'd prefer that to a very low fixed price, especially with short, spaced-out episodes.

Quote from: theo on Mon 24/01/2011 08:55:20Another alternative is waiting until chapter 2 is finished and then releasing 1+2 in the same bundle.

I'd say this is the best choice, because it would take longer, people that have played the first chapter when it released would have probably forgotten what happened, and want to replay it just so they know where it ended how how it will begin in chapter 2. They would also get a whole new experience along with it. With new puzzles, voice acting, and on top of that, hi-res backgrounds. Plus they wouldn't be left with the same cliffhanger AGAIN.

If AGS worked on Mac and Linux I would defiantly go for the Pay-What-You-Want thing. Because I've seen it on dozens of indy title use that, and Mac and Linux people aren't cheap ass like most of the Windows crowd.

Totally agree with Armageddon. That's good point about long time, forgetting etc.

Stupot: I think the free chapter thing has a lot going for it but I do not believe the TDM solution to be an optimal one. I personally would have chopped it off right before the chapters end, alternatively let the player try out the next chapter a bit before being told to pay up. (sor of like a soap opera "on the next episode of ...")For the very simple reason that a player is more prone to continue when engrossed in something. Anyhow, I certainly see your point about not wanting to pay for something you've more or less already received for free. It makes perfect sense. I thank you for your opinion:)

cianty + ddq: That's actually a really interesting idea. The thought had not crossed my mind.

Ali + armageddon: Agreed. I like this thought. It would make a very nice package. It is however quite daunting. I've come quite far on chapter two, but having both of them finished will not happen any time soon.

I noticed in you're first hi-res background in the loft. It seems like there are a lot of hard and defined lines on the textures and thing. But at the gas dock it looks like everything is really soft and smooth. Probably not a problem, just looks a little strange to me. :P

At the moment I'd suggest against remaking Episode 1 or going HD with extra visual detail. It would slow down your creation of new episodes to the extreme. As a point of reference, Machinarium is a hi-res visually beautiful game which was created by a very small indie team, but they were working full time for 3 years on it!

I'm not even sure the additional work would sufficiently pay off - especially for Over The Edge. Most adventure games fans are not this demanding in terms of high resolution and super-polished graphics (or having every little bit of gameplay perfect). They would rather have more TJD episodes to play and the whole story to experience.

Perhaps with relatively small amount of pain you could up the resolution of Episode 2 to 640x480 (or 640x400), record good voice-overs both for it and for OTE (extremely important to have them right), release the two as a bundle for an attractive price, or give out the voiced OTE as a promotional episode, and most of your target audience will be sufficiently in awe to buy new chapters.

But once you release the whole 4 episode series and have already a good reputation built for it - THEN would be a good time to consider doing a more detailed HD version (if you'll still be interested in that) - mostly to expand the audience to include people who wouldn't have heard of TJD when it was starting up.

I loved the first chapter and since your style fits nicely with a higher resolution (the two BGs look very nice!) I'd really like to play through it again, but I'm not sure that a higher res and some additional puzzles would make me want to buy the game.

I think the idea of a chapter 1+2 bundle is perfect. The points very already made and I can't add much to it but I'd definitely pay around 10 bucks for that bundle. Also, I'm eagerly awaiting chapter 2!

I agree with Armageddon that the first screenie looks sharper than the second one. I'd make it a bit smoother to resemble the other.

Anyway, good luck with this and keep up the great work.

Good shout, who cares if the game was already free. It's HD with 3D rendered characters, that's badass. Whack that badboy on xbox live and PSN. My cash is already yours, £15 pre-order for the first two episodes?

Just to add my vote to the episode1+2 idea - with the extra / updated features it should certainly be enough to make fans of the game buy it.  Certainly more people would buy that than simply an enhanced episode one (though I think there are definitely a number of people who would buy that).  If you could bring the storyline to a logical end in your first game, but with an obvious launching point for game 2 (originally your episodes 3+4), that would be the best option IMHO.

Having worked on commercial adventure games, all I can do is wish you all the best!  It's not an easy way to make money today, but if you believe in your product and your story (and don't expect to strike it rich) then you should do okay.

I won't get into the commercial vs. freeware debate too much as I'm really in two minds about the issue myself. On the one hand I think releasing a freeware adventure is invariably good for the community, gamers, etc. On the other hand every artist has to support themselves somehow, and using your skills to do this is logical. As long as you weigh up the alternatives and make a decision you believe in I'm sure you'll do fine.

As for the Journey Down itself, I think having voice acting and an perhaps overhaul of the main character sprites is essential for a commercial release. I felt the colorful characters and great music really accentuated the absence of voices.
While the scaling didn't bother me too much, the jerkiness of the animations and somewhat awkward stance of the protagonist detracted a little from otherwise superb graphics- less of a problem than the lack of VO, but still noticable enough to mention.

Low res I liked, and I'm biased against 3d models for characters but those are just personal preferences, and not something that would neccesarily turn me off.

So yeah, get some half decent VO and I would certainly pay for it. 

Ascovel: That's why I call it an economically suicidal venture:) They main issue, as you pointed out, is that it will make the wait for chapter two even longer. This I can not deny no matter how much I wish I could. It's perfectly true. This however is only an issue for people who have already played the game, and not for a wider audience. And let's face it, 14 000 downloads sounds like a lot, but it's nothing but a small, small fraction of the potential players this game could reach out to. If anything, I see JDHD as a good pilot project for trying out more heavyweight stuff. It's a convenient testing ground, as everything else is already in place.

Regarding sharpness, it's just me being clutzy with my sharpen filter, thanks for pointing that out!

Pinback: I agree to the fullest. 3d characters in games usually tend to end up looking really awkward and out of place. In this case however, I'm certain there's a lot more to win, than to lose by going 3d. (For one thing, I wont be doing the animation, but a trusted, madly skilled animator friend of mine will, so say goodbye to awkward stances and jerky movement.)

Everyone seems to like the 1+2 release idea and honestly I too think it sounds like the most profitable and smooth way of doing it. Again however, I'm not sure I'll be able to stop myself from releasing chapter 1 standalone when I actually have it finished. That would be quite the amazing feat of self control, which certainly isn't something I'm known for having.

Again, thanks everyone for encouragement and feedback!

I'm currently looking for free voice actors. If you know one (or are one) that you think may fit into the JD sound scape, please, let me know!

Selling games is really an interesting theoretical topic I've been looking into myself for some time. There are a few interesting theories to consider;

Selling an indie game corresponds directly to the law of demand, meaning that there is a strong link between price and demand. lower price, higher demand and vice-versa. Although you can't fully consider it an item without competition, I don't think that any indie game is in any direct competition with other indie games since they are all unique experiences. I believe that there is certainly a price point to the relevance of competition however so if you plan to sell for retail-studio-prices you might have some trouble. The law of demand does rely on having one price however, not something buyer-determined.

The other interesting theory is that if someone is ready to take out their credit card and go through with buying a game for say $5, you might as well have asked for $10 because buying the game is not so mush about price as it is about actually going through with the purchase itself. I think that  $10 or £10 is the limit here though. food for thought non-the-less.

If you where to do this as a pay-what-you-want deal, you need some real exposure, you arguably have it now but a stable price would probably be the better choice since you haven't sold any games yet. It worked for world of goo because they didn't have anything to loose and they also have a large audience. It works for the indie bundle because they get allot of exposure through charities.
The other interesting thing about selling a game for a low price is that the lower you go the less people will care about their purchase, this is irrelevant when it comes to making a profit because of the law of demand, but you might want to consider it.

Finally, if anyone could sell an AGS game I think you can. The game as it stands now is pretty good, amazing for this forum, as an adventure game it is extraordinarily capable. It's a good adventure game, it's immersive and I would pay to play it.

I would like to add that a 1+2 deal doesn't sound like a good idea. Because if you manage to sell part 1 well enough it could potentially have you working full-time on part 2.

Thanks for the kind words and your thoughts regarding selling games. I enjoyed reading them:)

One thing I have understood is that it is, as you mentioned, indeed ALL ABOUT EXPOSURE. Nothing else really matters. Granted, if you've got a crap product and it gets loads of exposure, that doesn't mean it sells. BUT if you have a good title that also gets good exposure, you hit the sweet spot. Good titles with zero exposure are epic economical flops no matter how enjoyable they are to play.

Anyhow. I need to be clear here. The "HD" version of chapter one is (at least in theory) a commercial project because I think it deserves to be one. Not because I believe it will actually generate any decent revenue. (Frankly, I'll be happy if I sell 1000 copies, I know how difficult that is.) But IF I do charge money for it at least there's a chance it could become a financially OK release (if I'm lucky with exposure and good reviews etc.) If I don't, there's no such chance.

Anyhow, thanks again for your encouraging words and thoughts. I appreciate them.

I did some more cleaning up yesterday:

I knew I was not crazy when I asked for higher res backgrounds, these are stunning! :o

As for working on JD1 HD after you're done with JD2 or the next chapters, think about it for a moment, if you do JD1 HD after JD2, people will complain you're remaking that old game instead of working on the next chapters, and if you remake the first game when you're done with the last chapter, you will have lost most of your market already because most people will have finished your game and only the hardcore fans will be interested in revisiting it. Nah, if you want to update that game, you don't have much choice but do it before JD2 is out.

I don't know if you should release them at the same time however. You said it yourself, it's all about exposure, both before and after release. If you release both at the same time, you'll have your week of glory and that will be it. What you could do instead is finish JDHD, keep it in a drawer and bring it out some months before JD2 is ready, this way you'll maximize your exposure. If you play your card well, you'll hype JDHD, release it, spread the word, give interviews "Oh, btw, here's a teaser of JD2, which is coming out in a couple of month"... beating the iron while it's hot.

But the expert on the subject is Dave, it's him who should be giving you advices.

Quote from: blueskirt on Tue 01/02/2011 23:04:40
Nah, if you want to update that game, you don't have much choice but do it before JD2 is out.

Believe me, I've had the same thought many times. Thanks for pointing this out to me though. I needed to hear someone else say it, heh.

We'll see what happens I guess... Right now I'm just working on it because I need the break from chapter two. Also, as mentioned previously, it serves as a very convenient testing ground for new techniques that I may end up utilizing in chapter two.

Oh, in other news there's a new JD interview on line (http://www.kraid.se/2011/01/intervju-theodor-waern/#more-9070). It is however in Swedish which admittedly does render it quite useless to most of y'all, but hey, I'd be an idiot not to spam about it.

I just finished the engine room! Might have to revisit this later though to add some control details etc.

In this whole situation there's at least one thing about which there can be no doubt - the updated backgrounds look grand and I'd love to wander around the JD world in that resolution!

Wow, these backgrounds are coming out fast. They all look great, you do need to polish the engine room a bit more, I noticed some very bad edges, it might just be image compression though.

Ascovel: Thanks! I'm glad you like the look of it:) I think the trick is to keep everything as close to the original as possible, just cleaning up and adding details.

Armageddon: Heh it's not compression, what you are seeing is actually some of the aliasing from the original 3d model of the engine that I painted over. I was just too lazy to clean it up all the way. Hopefully I'll remember to give it a couple extra brush strokes, next time I'm working on it!

Been cleaning out Makena's kitchen today... Man, she sure had it in a mess.

I can proudly announce that this project has now become an official SLX GAMES (http://www.slxgames.com) project, which means I will be dedicating some of my day-job-time working on it.

As a first way of trying out what the higher resolution lets us do, we have now released a small tech demo (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=42939.0), which I would be very grateful if you took the time to run - and give me your feedback on.

If all those things run smoothly, the only thing truly stopping us from going full on with this project is the display resolution issue (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=42690.0).

Great news man! Good to hear this going official, great to see the touched up screens, I look forward to seeing how you get along!

I checked out the concept art page here: http://www.slxgames.com/consept.html

That's some beautiful work you've done. Its especially interesting to me at the moment since I'm trying for the first time to take art more seriously. And finding concept art that I like and find useful has been a bit tricky. I know about conceptart.org and there are a few concept artist I find inspirational except from you (I adore Keith Thompson (http://www.keiththompsonart.com/) quite a bit), but there's something about your art that makes sense to me technically lets say, and I like finding artist like that.

I think I just lost my jaw. Those look impressive and awesome to say the least. Somehow I got an anime vibe, which makes them even more awesome to my eyes. Carry on!

aha, now I get it, I just read a review on a dutch gaming site (www.gamer.nl) on the journey down and it had HD graphics, but I just found the original here on AGS which was far from HD and it was free, so I wondered what the hell was going on, but the paid version is HD..
BTW looks cool, but I'll just wait with buying and playing until you're done with the serie as I hate 'to be continued' (it was also the biggest negative point they made in the review).. So I really hope you'll finish the whole game..