Jim Walls launching Kickstarter spiritual succesor to Police Quest

[Gribbler]

I don't know if this was posted. I assume it wasn't cause it's started yesterday. Anyway, what do you guys think? It looks more like a Cop Simulator to me than actual adventure game.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/precinctgame/precinct

[Secret Fawful]

PQ was such a great, well-designed procedural series.

[ThreeOhFour]

Here is an interview about it.

[Vince Twelve]

Man, I hope he gets $800k so we can get some Badonk.  I already don't get the concept of stretch goals, but these are ridiculous.  "At this level, we'll make the game more better.  And at THIS level, we'll make it even betterer."

[ThreeOhFour]

No more ridiculous than his claims of "The latest in 3D gaming technology."

I don't mind indie looking stuff, but such a statement is really a bit silly.

[Secret Fawful]

No more ridiculous than his claims of "The latest in 3D gaming technology."

I don't mind indie looking stuff, but such a statement is really a bit silly.

They made the same statement back in the AGI days of Sierra, though.

[ThreeOhFour]

Yes, I've seen such things. I wonder how many potential backers will be receptive to such throwaway rhetoric, though. After the Double Fine dealio, I can see more kickstarter members looking more carefully for frank, transparent pitches.

Or maybe not. Who can really say?

[Secret Fawful]

It's always been a stupid statement, but back in the day, it was more convincing. But with all the throwbacks to the "glory days", I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't a throwback to their old taglines.

The project will probably only end up mildly successful, but I admit I'm surprised at how well it's done so far blah blah Fawful the broken record.

[Gribbler]

Talking about bold statements, remember this on one of Police Quest's box back cover: "So realistic actual policemen use it as a training tool" ?

[AGA]

No more ridiculous than his claims of "The latest in 3D gaming technology."

I don't mind indie looking stuff, but such a statement is really a bit silly.

Little do you know, if funded Precinct will be the first game to be built on the as yet unannounced Unreal Engine 4.5.

[ThreeOhFour]

I'm sure it will be Epic.

[Babar]

Well, the original KQ DID have it new enough so that "the latest in 3D gameplay!" (or whatever such thing they said) was true. You could move left right, back, forward, diagonally and could go up and down .

I'm not seeing any mention here of using the latest in 3D technology, though. Did I miss it somewhere? Just that they'll have "real-time 3D environments and gameplay deliver significant realism", which is vague enough not to promise too much.

[ThreeOhFour]

Did you watch the pitch video? Because when I watched it, Jim Walls says it with: his voice.

[Secret Fawful]

Also keep in mind the footage shown was test 3D footage. When he said the latest in kill your cat and bury the body behind the dumpster so the inheritance is yours.....whoa what happened I blacked out for a second.....he might be referring to what they'll actually make the game itself in...with the funds.....from Kickstarter: Quest For Money.

[ThreeOhFour]

Yes, but "the latest in 3D gaming technology" with $500,000! 

I am not saying this is a dumb game and that people shouldn't back it. I am saying Jim Walls is a big silly for saying obviously silly things with his mouth.

(unless they took that out of the video)

[Ali]

Surely to most sierra fans "the latest in 3D gaming technology" = "it's 3D".

[Secret Fawful]

"Sierra fans"?



The Bigfoot is more plausible.

[Babar]

Did you watch the pitch video? Because when I watched it, Jim Walls says it with: his voice.

Hahah...I actually got bored when they hadn't finished introducing themselves almost halfway in, and skipped to the text. I see it now!

[Radiant]

Okay, so is there anyone who worked for Sierra or LucasArts who has ''not'' done a kickstarter project for their favorite series recently? What's next, Infocom?

[ThreeOhFour]

No Ahern... maybe Insecticide left him disappointed?

[Babar]

I wouldn't be displeased with a kickstarter from Christy Marx (Conquests), but I think she's working at Zynga now

[Gribbler]

is there anyone who worked for Sierra or LucasArts who has ''not'' done a kickstarter project for their favorite series recently?

I'm still waiting for Brian Moriarty's kickstarter succesor to Loom. And yes, I know fanmade Forge is in production, too.

[Vince Twelve]

Okay, so is there anyone who worked for Sierra or LucasArts who has ''not'' done a kickstarter project for their favorite series recently? What's next, Infocom?

C'mon Boffo Games!

[BornOfBlackEarth]

The technical details aside, I hope that the new PQ they have planned doesn't go soft with the content.  Everything has a dark side, especially police work.  It only touched on the issue of corruption in PQ3, but went completely soft in PQ4.  I'm sure Mr. Walls sees the same stories in the news as we do in the States, and notices the increasing trend in police abuse occurring here (although I'm certain that our friends across the pond are not immune to such a thing at all).

Sorry for the slightly political slant, but it would be so great to see a good, upstanding former officer use this platform to help speak against such abuses.  In PQ, you are punished for misconduct!  It's only too bad that the reality doesn't seem to mirror it...sigh.

In any event, I wish Mr. Walls and company great success in their ambitious effort.  And, of course, much love to fellow AGSers everywhere!

[Armageddon]

I really liked the pre-vis stuff. The untextured but painterly shader was pretty awesome looking.

[Knox]

I have to admit, being a huge Police Quest fan myself, Im a bit disappointed with what I saw on KickStarter...but in a weird way happy it is nothing like what Im working on, hehe!

[qptain Nemo]

Wow, that was boring. The graphics and the choice-driven gameplay look somewhat nice though.

[Gribbler]

but went completely soft in PQ4

Soft? It had a severed head in a refrigerator! With a lighter stuck in its mouth!

[AGA]

The first thing I did upon going to the Kickstarter page was misread "Fraser Canyon Police Dept." as 'Laser Canyon Police Dept.', leading me to believe this was going to be some sort of futuristic space cop thing.  Which might have been interesting.

[BornOfBlackEarth]

Soft? It had a severed head in a refrigerator! With a lighter stuck in its mouth!

I was referring to improprieties that happen inside of the "blue wall".  I agree 100% that PQ4 had some of the most graphic depictions of homicide victims in the entire series, and it shows right from the beginning of the game (a child gets murdered!).  However, the vast majority of the series went by the assumption that officers never had to deal with such things as internal politics or corruption.  That theme was only mildly touched on when (WARNING: SPOILER)

Spoiler

your hispanic female partner turns out to be corrupt and working with Bains's brother in PQ3.

[close]

[Grim]

Hey, Jim Walls sent me a friend request on Facebook! How cool is that?

I'm secretly hoping Ron Gilbert is next;)

[Chicky]

Hey, Jim Walls sent me a friend request on Facebook! How cool is that?

I'm secretly hoping Ron Gilbert is next;)

Probably looking for some advice on how to make a game that doesn't suck

[Grim]

Hey, Jim Walls sent me a friend request on Facebook! How cool is that?

I'm secretly hoping Ron Gilbert is next;)

Probably looking for some advice on how to make a game that doesn't suck

haha I don't know if Police Quest games sucked or not, really. I remember playing one or two on Amiga when I was a kid, and they kinda fascinated me... But I was too young to understand them and the floppy disk loading times were brutal- I do recall playing with that "walk" cursor while waiting by moving it around and pretending to walk on the scenery... So, I guess Police Quest was probably better on PC. Where you didn't have to wait half an hour for a screen to change.

But I read a long article about Jim Walls a few months back, and it's actually a pretty good story how he got involved into making games;) Now I'm looking at him, thinking: he's a seventy year old man, he's got this awesome white moustache, like Snake, and he's making a new game, about something he really likes. How cool is that?

That's what I wanna do when I'm his age.

[Chicky]

He does indeed have a rather badass moustache!

I think the main problem with the Police Quest games (from what i remember) was the obsessive focus on realism and subsequent neglect to include anything fun. Paperwork is never fun, even in a video game! I remember a lot of walking, talking and failure.

Running the cursor around scenery must be a pretty common pastime between adventure gamers

[Ali]

Running the cursor around scenery must be a pretty common pastime between adventure gamers

I like to make triangular pointers into wizard/dunce's caps for the characters.

[Babar]

I used make people wear the "crown" wait icon in King's Quest games

[Gribbler]

I used make people wear the "crown" wait icon in King's Quest games

Haha! Me too! 

[Secret Fawful]

He does indeed have a rather badass moustache!

I think the main problem with the Police Quest games (from what i remember) was the obsessive focus on realism and subsequent neglect to include anything fun. Paperwork is never fun, even in a video game! I remember a lot of walking, talking and failure.

Running the cursor around scenery must be a pretty common pastime between adventure gamers

Oh, by obsessive focus on realism and neglect to include anything "fun", you mean unique mechanics that set it apart from the crowd and a true-to-detail experience. Okay. At least it wasn't fuckin Minecraft.

[Jared]

Sadly, doesn't look like it's going to make it, which doesn't surprise me a lot. The pitch video was a bit weak (almost entirely Sierra nostalgia - everything on the game itself looked good but you have to wait about 4 minutes to get to it), their rewards aren't amazing, and the whole series has become fairly cult on the gaming radar. Though Jim Walls kept working until relatively recently he hasn't been involved in any games with an X factor, and the SWAT games (the closest frame of reference to the Jim Walls games for modern gamers) stopped coming out seven years ago. The average internet-goer will only be aware of THOSE games if they've watched Spoony's LPs.

It's a shame, because this looks like a pretty good game to me and I've a soft spot for Police Quest.

[Secret Fawful]

I want Jim Walls to succeed so bad. I tend to strongly identify with adventure game developers who do poorly and just want to do what they love.

[kaput]

I think the problem here is that on hearing about it, everyone thinks the game will be another Police Quest - which it clearly isn't, and get a bit disappointed about it. He also doesn't have a pop star video where he does lots of funny stuff, which people tend to eat up. The game looks really good for what it is with really impressive features, but with all the disappointed and preconceptions it'll probably result in the game not being made (although, on the other hand it could explode on the last week and surprise everybody). It just looks like he wants to do something different and it's not being received all that well.

[Chicky]

Oh, by obsessive focus on realism and neglect to include anything "fun", you mean unique mechanics that set it apart from the crowd and a true-to-detail experience. Okay. At least it wasn't fuckin Minecraft.

But what if i want to walk around the station in nothing but a towel? Now that would be a unique mechanic! In all fairness it's been quite some time since i've played any of them, so i'm happy to take your word on their credibility.

I'm not sure i get the Minecraft comment? The voxel sandbox idea may have been around long before Notch, but he made a damn good stab at it!

[Andail]

The unique mechanic here seems to be a complete lack of freedom. "Want to drive to the destination? Click Drive to Destination. Want to get out and enter the bar? Click Get Out and Enter the Bar." I bet every time you press the wrong button, Jim Walls is gonna pop up and tell you how you didn't pay attention to proper police protocol.
Reminds me of the golf game Bart got for Christmas present.
But hey, it's 3D!

[Secret Fawful]

I have to agree. It does seem to lack a lot of freedom, and that is a problem for me.

[Ryan Timothy B]

[embed=420,315]http://youtu.be/ac9Z6CN14Gs[/embed]

And yes, I agree with Andail. I couldn't believe how terrible the gameplay looked.

[David Ostman]

I remember when I was listening to the livestream when Walls first spoke about this project, revealing that it was in the making, and I got mighty excited. My childhood flashed before my eyes for a moment as I was a super die hard fan of the Police Quest series to the point where I even wrote fan mail to Sierra about it (which I mailed from Sweden, and I don't think it ever arrived properly..).

Then this Kickstarter comes up, and I watch the pitch video, and my heart just sinks so deep it splits in two at my crotch and each shattered half settles down in the soles of my feet. It's not that the mockup video looks lackluster (it does), but the whole premise just seems void of everything I was hoping for in a Jim Walls/PQ related game. I can't even bring myself to donate a token sum the way I normally would do. I'm a complete victim of my own expectations here and I'm just angry at the world at large at this point

[Knox]

I remember when I was listening to the livestream when Walls first spoke about this project, revealing that it was in the making, and I got mighty excited.
Then this Kickstarter comes up, and I watch the pitch video, and my heart just sinks so deep it splits in two at my crotch and each shattered half settles down in the soles of my feet.

Haha same here...I have a feeling they thought they could just show up and people would throw money at them because they used to work for Sierra or something. In one of the interviews Jim Walls even mentions they "need to get a team together". Doesn't look like they put much thought into it at all.

[Volcan]

Jim Wall's project is concelled.

I just checked his kickstart page today.

I would like to play Police Quest in 3D. Like assign a task, go to the road XXX, deals with thugs, arrest them, book them to the jail, assing another task, ...

That would make a change than just go to a place and shoot to everybody.

[Secret Fawful]

Oh, look, an unsuccessful Sierra designer. What a surprise.

[David Ostman]

Yeah, not surprised about this. However, they have their own flexible funding campaign going on now at their website.

Edit: If you donate there, be aware that once a stage (out of 4) is met you can't pull out with your money.

[The Fool]

Sorry for partial OT, but have any of you guys seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygsxF_L11p4

It has been my guilty pleasure in many sleepless nights, especially Grundi's improvised musical number at the end
is pretty insane

[Gribbler]

I watched it for a few minutes, rewinded couple of times, and did not find it funny at all. I prefer standard longplays or adventure speedruns.

[The Fool]

Aaaah, I see that I accidentaly posted link that starts on 39:46. My bad.

My relationship with this video went from "uuuh, this is really wierd" to "I cant's sleep, I'm going to have a beer and watch that police quest thing again and sing naked jesus " I just... like it, I don't know

[David Ostman]

They've now cancelled it. Their own crowdfunding drive didn't pan out at all.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/27/cop-out-precinct-crowd-funding-cancelled

[Volcan]

I feel sorry for Jim Walls.

While, Two guys from Andromeda, Al Lowe and the authors of Quest for Glory succeed, Jim Walls does not seen to be able to fund a new police game.

Myself, I didn't see any Police Quest fanmades in the internet.

Are Police Quest games unpopular than other series, King's Quest, Space Quest, Leisure suit Larry, Quest for glory?

I don't know.

[Babar]

They obviously are. There are tonnes of Space Quest fan games (some of them quite good), King's Quest also has great fan games, even Leisure Suit Larry had a remake.

Did any fan do a remake/fangame/sequel to any Police Quest game in the intervening years between the last adventuregame Police Quest?

[Ghost]

I can't put a finger on it, but I never really got into PG. King's Quest had it easy because I like fantasy, and I enjoyed  the first three games and later KQ 5. Space Quest, yes, they had their good moments too, I liked some of them. But Police Quest never fel right. I can't say way, I remember playing the first two games but for the life of me I can't remember anything *about them*.

I think King's Quest has many fan games because of the usualy reasons, seasoned players remaking something they liked as kids. And the games have some memorable charcters AND simple plots, it's easy to jump back into them. PQ seems to have a less strong fan base...

[Radiant]

Hm, that's an interesting question. No, Police Quest isn't all that noticeable on the fan radar, and I wonder why.

Thinking it over, I suggest that since it doesn't have the otherworldly locations or the humor of e.g. Space Quest or Quest for Glory, it has to draw from its thriller plot and compelling characters... and frankly it doesn't really have those either. I've played the first three PQ games and can't remember any character that stuck out or that wasn't flat, and neither do I recall many gripping scenes or a page-turner plot. Sorry, Jim, but you're just no Robert Ludlum or Agatha Christie; there's just not enough escapism in Police Quest.

[David Ostman]

There are many die hard PQ fans out there, me being one of them. I just think many weren't normal gamers, like fans of the other quest games probably were. I was very young when I played them for the first time, and that probably has something to do with it, and as a kid I wanted to grow up to be a cop which probably added to my own hype of it. Nevertheless I did love the games

I think what appealed to me is they were devoid of a lot of the quirkyness that adventure games are famous for. The puzzles weren't stupid puzzles, but ones based in logic and street smarts, as well as understanding of police procedures. When you did something right it wasn't because you tried every object randomly on everything on the screen, it was because you used your brain. Very rewarding.

[Volcan]

I just think something today. Since the second funding has no limit time, Jim Walls should not give up easily.

He should keep funding even if it takes years to reach the goal.

[Knox]

I think the main reason why there aren't many (or any) fan-made Police Quest games out there right now, is that most people probably don't know about proper police procedure/police science/legal system.

I had to buy a crap-load of books on police tactics, verbal judo, police politics/internal affairs, forensics, etc...I guess it is harder to write a  realistic police story that makes sense than a fantasy story where you can just make everything up.

I dont think they were properly prepared. If you compare Precint's KS to any of the other sierra alumni KS, you can see how little effort they put into it.

When I read the words "Badonk" + "more polish" I got shivers of shame.

[Babar]

Knox! I forgot about your game! I suppose there IS a Police Quest fan-game of sorts in the works .

But yeah, and their kickstarter video was also not focused properly. Almost half of it was dedicated to retreading old history (intros, meeting up, reminiscing about Sierra).

If there isn't so much demand for a Police Questish game, and they still really want to make it (rather than treating it as easy money from old fans), they should scale back their game, and reduce the funding accordingly, although I suppose they wouldn't be able to have a big team behind them, then.

[Knox]

Hey Babar! I had to take a whole year off last year working on the game but I am back in business baby!

The other thing that bothered me about their pitch is that it wasn't very clear to me if it was a 1st person perspective game...

I want a good point-and-click adventure police game à  la Gabriel Knight 1/Police Quest 3, not à  la Gabriel Knight 3/King's Quest 8...

[kaput]

He should have done what he was famous for. It's not a PQ game by any means. I don't feel any negative feelings toward him because he wanted to do something different. But there is his name and then there is the game (Police Quest).

I am totally impartial, but I can guarantee you all, right now, that is the reason this game was and never will be funded by fans. He is/was famous for police quest. If he wanted to make another game he should have cashed in like all the others who came out the woodwork suddenly. That's not being bitchy - that's realistic. I'm sorry if it seems bitchy, guys. There's no real debate here, he would have been successful with a point and click

[Gribbler]

He would have been successful with a point and click

I think you're right. Years back Police Quest changed into weird pseudo SWAT simulation and what Walls seems to be doing with Preceint is another realistic cop simulator. I don't dig it at all. I would love another Police Quest with a captivating criminal story, good writing, with plot twists, interrogations, maybe with some forensic CSI-like puzzles, classic 3rd person point & click. I don't want a game where I have to fill out various reports all the time, follow realistic police procedures and see a game over screen when I wear police uniform in an incorrect order. C'mon.

[blueskirt]

I don't know if he would have been successful, point and click adventure or not.

There's no real fanbase for Police Quest. King's Quest, Gabriel Knight, Space Quest, Quest For Glory, Leisure Suit Larry, these series had truckloads of fans and many of them had forums where these games are still discussed or at the very least a place where the fans can hang together, that helps somehow. Police Quest never had that. Adventure games are a niche in video games, Police Quest is a niche of adventure games, that's just too little.

Plus, Police Quest was half police procedural, half investigation, and that second half I believe got outclassed by games like Gabriel Knight and Broken Sword which elevated the standards of quality in term of story telling and mystery in adventure games, recent indie horror adventure games also elevated further higher mystery type of game, people who want a good investigation or mystery game with good stories are more likely to think about to the latter series than Police Quest. Police Quest would mostly attract players who are fans of the police procedural side of it, they exists however, but they're a small number.

The police procedural aspect of the latter games have also been ridiculed a lot on youtube, which doesn't help either.

But...

They still managed to amass 85K with their wonky pitch. An indie project with a smaller goal and a better pitch would probably have succeeded. I would say, aim smaller, more adventure, less simulator, try to achieve something like AGDI or IA did, a small goal, something indie. Bonus points if you go for the hand drawn 2D point and click look to attract as much of the retros as possible. Double bonus points if you pick and choose the best aspect of the Police Quest series and Blue Force, like the second game's text parser (there is something empowering in typing "FREEZE SCUMBAG!" which get lost in the transition to icons).

I would also say keep it simple and police-y, don't try to beat investigation and mystery at their own games. Serial killers, cultists and copycats have been done plenty of time in adventure games and often done better than Police Quest did, there is however an untapped potential for plots focusing on the minutiae of police work and techniques, plots featuring drug dealers, weapon smugglers, mafia, biker gangs, crooked cops, bank robbers... or plots featuring hostage situations, dealing with internal affairs, going undercover (thinking Donnie Brasco here, where the lines between going deeper and not becoming a criminal yourself get blurred, where you've got to remind yourself who you are, who's a friend and who's a foe). Plots dealing with the consequences that being a cop has on one's personal life, like General Knox is aiming for in his game I believe. Plots dealing with corruption in the law enforcement, either for personal gain, or general disrespect of civil rights, or to solve a case, or endemic to your environment like in Serpico. What if the game gave you the freedom to break the law, for personal gain or to solve a case? What if, in good old Columbo fashion, the focus wasn't to figure out who the bad guy is, but figuring out how to arrest him? (It's funny, I think there's one movie starring Al Pacino for each aspects I listed above...) If serial killers and cults and whodunit have been overdone, there is still room for other type of law enforcement stories in adventure games.

Under these conditions, I believe a kickstarter for a spiritual sequel to Police Quest and Blue Force would be successful.

I think the main reason why there aren't many (or any) fan-made Police Quest games out there right now, is that most people probably don't know about proper police procedure/police science/legal system.

I had to buy a crap-load of books on police tactics, verbal judo, police politics/internal affairs, forensics, etc...I guess it is harder to write a  realistic police story that makes sense than a fantasy story where you can just make everything up.

That's an aspect I never ever considered of your game or the creation of a Police Quest inspired game in general. I'd have thought using the manuals supplied in the other games, maybe contacting some of the retired police officers who did AMA for knowledge regarding proper procedures and the legal system or anecdotes that can find their way into the game, would have been enough.