The discussion over the new Sam and Max thread and the various list of horror adventure games I saw here in the last months got me wondering, why not a list of adventure games that are worth being played because they innovated and brought new ideas in the classic adventure game genre.
You knows, games like Quest For Glory for adding RPG elements into adventure games.
Maniac Mansion and its multiple characters, a concept which was pushed to the next level with Day of the Tentacle and Gobliins 2.
Loom with its unique GUI, or Full Throttle with its really blunt coin-verb interface.
Monkey Island 1's insult sword fighting.
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade's multiple solutions, non-linearity and for castle Brunwald, which was possibly the best evil guys's lair in an adventure game, I haven't seen a concept like that until the Hitman series.
Adventures in a Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment, for adding ressources trading, fighting and subquests.
Did I miss some? (I'm sure I'm only scratching the surface of the list)
Nice thread! I'll contribute when I remember stuff.
KGB for real-time spy-thriller hijinx (could have been done before but hey)
Captain Blood for Alien Space Language
Dreamweb for picking-up-everything. You have to think what will come useful and what not, not just click everywhere.
May I make a suggestion? How about listing parts of adventure games that innovate. It seems that's what you did anyway but I think it's easier to find innovative pieces in games rather than whole games that innovate.
Demons Tomb: A text adventure I bought for a dollar. The first part of the game has you trapped in a tomb with a fire raging. You have a few moves to protect as many relics as you can and then find some way of guiding someone to where you hid the relics. The second part of the game [that I never quite got into after that smash opening] was about your son [I believe] and he comes across the tomb not knowing it's where someone died. The played and replayed the opening to this game so many times.
Tex Murphy games: in-game discussions where you could dead-end if you didn't treat your responses well enough. A wonderful break from the 'take the dialogue tree from the top' common.
Deja Vu: open-endedness, BREAK EVERY WINDOW, LEAVE EVERY FAUCET RUNNING, PICK UP EVERYTHING, BECOME A HUMAN, LIVE FOREVER. Um.
Azrael's Tear : first 3d adventure game I played where the 3d extremely enhanced the mood.
Bad Mojo: Along with Gobliiins games, mostly situational, physical puzzles, no 'verb list' to talk of. You're a cockroach.
Lure of the Temptress: Roaming NPCs, giving orders 'go there, talk to this man'. Underimplemented and not really fun to play but still, innovative.
Bioforge : Bionic arm pointer, heh! Seriously, underrated clone of...
Alone in the Dark: Beginning of survival horror. Vector main characters on bitmap backounds, the begigging of 'cinematic' camera placement, for good or worse.
Blade Runner: extreme open-endedness.
Neuromancer: 'net hacking in adventure games. Furthured by Bloodnet and Hell.
Dark Seed: 'shadow' world.
In Memoriam/Missing added a lot of things previously unknown to the genre (if you can call it an adventure game) and I have no doubt that Experience112 will also show huge innovation.
Can you elaborate for those who haven't played? In spoiler tags if need be.
Blue Skirt, Galaxy of Fantabulous Woderment is not an original concept, it's a Star Control clone \ style.
Additions to lists of innovations:
Leisure Suit Larry - 1) sex + adventure game, hitting on girls a concept copyed by various
japanese game makers
2) Original concept of copy protections\underage protection in LSL1.
Broken Sword - combining an interesting true historical story as the subject of an adventure game.
Brokwn Sword 3 - keyboard GUI in a PC game that works like a console GUI basically
Nostradamus, BS 1 wasn't the first. Gabriel Knight did that. And maybe even games before Gabe, though not as high-profile. And even if it is arguable whether the glove fits Gabe 1, it's certainly good with Gabe 2, in which the story of Ludwig II is central to the plot.
7th Guest - first FMV game.
King's Quest 1 - first game where you could move characters around in a graphical environment.
Maniac Mansion - first point and click interface in adventures... I think.
Beyond Good and Evil - an extraordinary mish-mash of genres in which Adventure is the predominant one, and which pulls it off magnificently. Attempted before, but never this well.
The Last Express - to quote Helm, "extreme open-endedness".
Police Quest - possibly the first adventure game to actually simulate something (like playing F15 games makes you simulate flying) that required you to learn how to behave. Which is to say, you had to think like a cop, instead of thinking like a game player.
Normality - can it have been the first 1st-person 3D game evah? Not sure.
Grim Fandango - first unanimously sucessfull of keyboard usage in the mouse/point&click era.
Rui posted while I was writing, but nevertheless:
Quote from: Nostradamus on Thu 09/11/2006 07:23:00Broken Sword - combining an interesting true historical story as the subject of an adventure game.
Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (1993)
Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within (1995)
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars (1996)
Conclusion: Derivative piece of crap ;)
And my own contribution:
Gold Rush - Multilinear, three distinct paths through middle part of game. City of Boston as a "living world" where characters move around and events happen independent of the player character.
Quote from: Rui "Trovatore" Pires on Thu 09/11/2006 11:47:16
Police Quest - possibly the first adventure game to actually simulate something (like playing F15 games makes you simulate flying) that required you to learn how to behave. Which is to say, you had to think like a cop, instead of thinking like a game player.
But then punished you severly by ending your game if you so much as forget to have a shave. (Okay I doubt that was in there, but it's an example)
I get your point, however.
What was the first adventure game to include speech?
YOU DIE OF SHAME in Police Quest if you go out in a towel, from the showers. THAT'S what I call police work simulation. Of course I agree PQ is more a 'think like a cop' than a 'be a gameplayer' all the way through, just had to say this.
er... Loom, anyone?
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 09/11/2006 11:57:33What was the first adventure game to include speech?
Mean Streets?
The Dig: 2D ILM-animated artwork (to a degree)...intense! It's not really a factor of gameplay but the complexity of the visual aspect of these games is definitely something to admire. Especially because of the industries money in bringing 3D to life nowadays, where as just watching this kind of artwork was as innovative as hell to me back in the early days of adventuring.
Quote from: SergioCornaga on Thu 09/11/2006 04:55:56
In Memoriam/Missing added a lot of things previously unknown to the genre (if you can call it an adventure game)
I absolutely loved the concept. In Memoriam (http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=597) is a pretty recent game that uses internet and email to immerse you into the story. The game's disc is supposed to be a copy of a disc full of riddles that a serial killer handed to the police. When you solve all puzzles, you'll know where the killer keeps his two hostages. To solve the puzzles you'll have to search on the internet. They made a lot of special sites that have info for the puzzles hidden somewhere within it. You also get emails from NPC's with hints and such. Faxes and phonecalls are also possible I believe. It really requires a lot of thinking, and some puzzles can be quite hard and eventually repetitive, but the mood is very appealing.
The problem is, once it's over, it's really over. ZERO replay value, and most adventures have SOME replay value. In Memoriam has ZERO, because of the very thing it does - it simulates a real-life situation. And if it's done once, really, it should be really done, right?
Also... faxes and phonecalls? First I heard of it...
QuoteKGB for real-time spy-thriller hijinx (could have been done before but hey)
SO seconded!Dreamweb (too) - but I see it more like a superb atmosphere creation and cyberpunk beginner's manual.
Countdown - "How to do horror in simple steps"
Amazon: Guardians of Eden - "How to hint player"
Police Quest 4 - Reality might be the best setting, if atmosphere is built well
Fascination - A way to make an enjoyable game out of total mess.
and how to ruin it with very final puzzle
Leisure Suit Larry 7 - The first and to my knowledge ONLY game ever to use a THIRD sense in the gaming experience with the genius Cybersniff 2000 the Scratch-N-Sniff, scratch the page with your fingernail and SMELL the scenery ;D
(http://members.tripod.com/~blackstar1997/1to9.gif)
LSL7 I believ was also the first adventure game where the narrator was joking and ripping on the player character.
And for all the people who pointed out I was wrong about BS and historical subject saying GK did that before OK you were right, I never played GK.
HOWEVER Gabriel Knight wasn't the first adventure game to use a historical story either, the real first game ever to use a historical story was Conquest of Camelot (1989). SO THERE ! :=
Conquest of Camelot is based on realistic locations and time-period, but is invented faux-history in the subject at hand. Arthur going to conquer the heathens and find the holy grail? But perhaps I'm wrong.
QuoteLSL7 I believ was also the first adventure game where the narrator was joking and ripping on the player character.
I think sierra games started doing that from the first space quest or something. A lot was 'oh poor roger' but I think earlier games made the player-playing-adventure-game breakage quite sooner than LSL7.
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 09/11/2006 11:57:33
But then punished you severly by ending your game if you so much as forget to have a shave. (Okay I doubt that was in there, but it's an example)
No, THAT was Codename Iceman.
QuoteManiac Mansion and its multiple characters, a concept which was pushed to the next level with Day of the Tentacle and Gobliins 2.
To the previous level, actually. Neither DOTT nor Gobliins 2 has NPCs walking around individually, but MM does. It's arguably also the first humoristic game.
QuoteLeisure Suit Larry - 1) sex + adventure game, hitting on girls a concept
Larry 1 is a remake of Soft Porn Adventure (which, yes, was the first adult-ish game)
Maniac Mansion - first mouse-controlled game.
Hugo's House of Horrors - first amateur-made adventure game.
The Hobbit - first game with graphics (iirc)
Zork - first massively cross-platform game
Future Wars - first VGA game
Loom - in addition to what everybody already said, first game designed to have no dead ends and no killing the player
King's Quest IV - first female protagonist
Trinity - I don't like the game much, but the Klein Bottle puzzle is extremely innovative.
Space Quest I - first arcade sequence
Gargoyle Games' Tir na Nog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tir_Na_Nog_%28game%29) could be argued to be an adventure game and was very innovative for its day (1985).
The Black Cauldron...first game (i think) to use the stripped down, one click to interact key. It's cursed / blessed us ever since.
Quote from: Anarcho on Thu 09/11/2006 16:15:41
The Black Cauldron...first game (i think) to use the stripped down, one click to interact key. It's cursed / blessed us ever since.
Good point. It's also very good with multiple solutions to puzzles, and it's the first adv. game based on a movie.
Codename Iceman? That's the first I've heard of this game! Must have been good! (Note sarcasm) *finds screenshots* Ah, early Leisure suit larry era.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Thu 09/11/2006 14:52:54
Leisure Suit Larry 7 - The first and to my knowledge ONLY game ever to use a THIRD sense in the gaming experience with the genius Cybersniff 2000 the Scratch-N-Sniff, scratch the page with your fingernail and SMELL the scenery ;D
An real life page? I know Discworld Noir had an ingame smellovision where you could see smells as colours/auroa and ask Lewton to have a sniff. That was interesting!
QuoteHOWEVER Gabriel Knight wasn't the first adventure game to use a historical story either, the real first game ever to use a historical story was Conquest of Camelot (1989). SO THERE ! :=
I think they meant it had historical background, not in an actual historical setting. But then, if they did, then there is the Indy games...
Black Cauldron is also one of the first to involve alternative endings. That was one of the first adventure games I ever played and I still love it.
I wrote to Al Lowe a while back and he was surprised that anyone would even still remember it.
Curse of Enchantia - er... something absolutely unique. Better see for yourself.
it featured the worse pixel point precision puzzle I've ever encountered in an adventure game? Where there was a plank and even with the solution in hand, me and my older brother couldn't find the pixel, and never finished the game?
Oh, you mean how insane it was.
Interesting that it barely had any dialogue whatsoever, either.
EDIT:
This section of the game:
Spoiler
Go to the huge pile of gold on the right and combine the sock with a gold coin.
Now go to the robot guard and attack him with the lethal coin/sock combo! Now
you can enter the ship. Pick up the first plank and look for a small cross on
the floor near the middle of the screen. Stand thereabouts and use the push
command to drop the plank horizontally. Now pick up the second plank and stand
in the middle of the first plank and use push to drop it vertically to make a
bridge. Cross the bridge and pick up the cloth.
Hmm maybe we never "pushed" the plank. Because that's illogical.
leather goddeseses of phobies had some smell-ovision
Gobliins wasn't innovative for having multiple characters on screen, it was innovative because a large section of the puzlles were timed, you did this with one goblin while you did that with the other goblin.
Quote from: Helm on Thu 09/11/2006 14:58:26
Conquest of Camelot is based on realistic locations and time-period, but is invented faux-history in the subject at hand. Arthur going to conquer the heathens and find the holy grail? But perhaps I'm wrong.
Well in the Arthur legends\mythology there are many stories of him and\or his knights questing for grail. But a King Arthur in historical reality has never been proven and the majority of the historians don't believe he existed.
Quote from: Helm on Thu 09/11/2006 14:58:26
Quote from: NostradamusLSL7 I believ was also the first adventure game where the narrator was joking and ripping on the player character.
I think sierra games started doing that from the first space quest or something. A lot was 'oh poor roger' but I think earlier games made the player-playing-adventure-game breakage quite sooner than LSL7.
I ment a voice actor narrator.
Quote from: radiantLarry 1 is a remake of Soft Porn Adventure (which, yes, was the first adult-ish game)
Soft Porn Adventure was a TEXT game. So my point still stands as this is the first graphical game that involved trying to get laid.
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 09/11/2006 16:39:58
Quote from: Nostradamus on Thu 09/11/2006 14:52:54
Leisure Suit Larry 7 - The first and to my knowledge ONLY game ever to use a THIRD sense in the gaming experience with the genius Cybersniff 2000 the Scratch-N-Sniff, scratch the page with your fingernail and SMELL the scenery ;D
An real life page? I know Discworld Noir had an ingame smellovision where you could see smells as colours/auroa and ask Lewton to have a sniff. That was interesting!
No, not see smells, I ment a REAL scratch-n-sniff page that came with the game. I have the original game and had this page. That image I posted is how it looked like. During the game the picture of the number to sniff showed up on screen and then you took a fingernail and scratched the number on the page and got a smell. Examples: Sea smell when on deck, Kumquat Kish of sorts after you baked it, smell of cleaning products or yes, a rancid smell of poo in one scene, hehe. It all was a great experience to be added to a game.
Quote from: lo_res_man on Thu 09/11/2006 18:30:00
leather goddeseses of phobies had some smell-ovision
Yes, LGOP came with a scratch and sniff card. And the first scratch was in the toilet. Scary.
(http://www.kweepa.com/step/pix/lgopsniff.png)
http://infocom.elsewhere.org/gallery/leather/sniffnscratch.jpg
OK Steve good point, it certainly was way before LSL7 but again like Soft Porn, Phobos was a TEXT game. An Interactive Fiction game. And that's another genre than graphical adventure games. True, graphical adventure games grew from the genre of IF, but it's still a separate genre. It's like considering FPS a side scrolling shooter because those grew from Eagle's Nest and Duke Nukem (pre 3D) type games.
So in the field of adventure games, not IF ames. Larry7 is the first and only game to have a scratch-N-sniff.
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 09/11/2006 16:39:58
Codename Iceman? That's the first I've heard of this game! Must have been good! (Note sarcasm) *finds screenshots* Ah, early Leisure suit larry era.
You should try it some time if you're into masochism. Early in the game you get your ID card from a guard. Only it's the wrong ID card. If you don't bother to check this (and why would you) you get stuck near the end of the game. That's just one of the many exciting dead ends you'll see!
QuoteHOWEVER Gabriel Knight wasn't the first adventure game to use a historical story either, the real first game ever to use a historical story was Conquest of Camelot (1989). SO THERE ! :=
Gold Rush?
Quote from: InCreator on Thu 09/11/2006 17:47:26
Curse of Enchantia - er... something absolutely unique. Better see for yourself.
Isn't that the game with the talk icons that went "Hi." and "HELP!"? Looked nice, yes, never finished it though.
Quote from: Nostradamus on Thu 09/11/2006 20:35:30
Well in the Arthur legends\mythology there are many stories of him and\or his knights questing for grail. But a King Arthur in historical reality has never been proven and the majority of the historians don't believe he existed.
Come on, everybody knows that after facing the Legendary Black Beast of Aaaargh, Arthur and Bedevere crossed the Bridge of Peril to face the evil French with the Cattlepult.
Quote
Soft Porn Adventure was a TEXT game. So my point still stands as this is the first graphical game that involved trying to get laid.
But the thread title says "adventure game". So nyaaah! :P
Maybe I should have been a little bit more explicit in my first post, maybe "innovative" was a bad word. But instead of looking for the first adventure games which had sound, speech, 16 colors, 256 colors, shiny graphics, point and click, sex, commercial AGS game, first person view or whatever, I was more looking for...
You know, suppose you take every adventure games out there, put them in line and strip 'em from their graphics, musics, and storyline, what is so unique in a game that make it worth being played while similar games could be easily forgotten. Something, an element, a part in the game that kinda shine by itself beyond the game itself, something, that would make the game worth being played just once in a lifetime, even if the game had sloppy graphics or a overused story (or at least seen just once if the idea was good but the game was badly realised). (So many innuendos in that last paragraph)
Quest For Glory shine from any other adv. games with a fantasy setting because it has RPG elements, different character classes and a stats system.
Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment shine from any other space themed adv. games because it had more than just puzzle solving, in that case it had ressource trading and piracy (Yes, it was done in Star Control and Elite but it's not something you see in every other adv. games)
Indy and The Last Crusade's castle Brunwald shine among any other evil guys' lair because you weren't exploring empty corridors (SQ2), a lair devoid of enemies (BASS) or killed on sight by every bad guys in the place (SQ2, Operation Stealth), instead you had to sneak your way in, avoid patrols, convince other guards to let you pass, fight if the situation turned bad, had to find disguise to progress further behind the enemy's lines... you don't see this in every adventure games. Additionally that it had so many choice of actions that can affect the storyline later, make your quest easier or harder, this too you don't see in every games.
The GUI of Loom, playing notes on a staff to accomplish various actions, instead of using hands/eyes/mouth icons, verbs or text parser.
Even if I never liked that game, Kyrandia 3: Malcolm's Revenge for being able to change your mood from nice to evil and get various and different reactions to your actions. Grrr! Bearly Sane for its rage-o-meter which affected your reactions depending on how pissed off was your character.
Runhot, if it was released, I remember it involved the player to change his mood between normal, sporty and stealthy, like Little Big Adventure (another one which stand above). Even stripped from the graphics or the storyline, everyone would have remembered that particuliar bit in the gameplay.
Bad Mojo, Bad Mojo which arguably has the plot of a "Escape from my room" Quest game, but where the character was a tiny little cockroach, crawling in the dust sheeps, the vents or the folds in a bed sheet.
I think that's enough examples.
As for MM, DOTT and Gobliins 2, I was more talking about you controling several characters. It's not done in every adv. games. DOTT improve from MM because every characters were all stuck in a different timeline, all faced different problems and had to cooperate by either exchanging objects or making an action that would modify the course of time and help another character, it's indeed an improvement from MM's controling multiple characters.
Gobliins 2 also improve because while every of the 7 characters of MM have the same abilities and talents except for 1 talent which happen to be the one you'll finish the game with, Gob2 involved 2 characters with distinct and opposite personalities traits, abilities, qualities, flaws. One goblin was gentle, caring, weak, easily scared, nice mannered and smart while the other was harsh, uncaring, strong, scary, wild mannered and too dumb to press a button. And each goblins would react differently to every single things, characters and inventory items in the game (I bet their sprite artists got commited in a asylum after the game was released). One would gently smell the perfume of the flower you spend the last 5 minutes to get a hand on, while the other would uncaringly give it a look, eat it and laugh in your face, forcing you to go back and retake it again. Sure it involved a lot of timing puzzle, but also a whole lot of juggling between both personalities of your characters. Same thing with Knightsquire, 2 completly different characters.
I don't talk about Gob1 or Gob3 here because in the first one, the multiple characters was mostly just an extension of GUI, every goblins represented an action rather than a whole character like in Gob2. And in Gob3, the sidekicks were mostly there just to continue the timed puzzles style used in the previous games.
Now that I think of it, Bureau 13 had you to select a few characters of a total of 6, each with multiple talents, to accomplish your quests.
Into The Light (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=search&sterm=into+the+light&submit=Search%21) where your character was blind and you had to use your 4 remaining sense to guide you out of the troubles you were in. A nice little twist which didn't make the game to be just another drop in the sea.
It sound like I'll have a lot of adventure games to try one of those days. Particuliary In Memoriam. It sound deviously awesome and out of the box.Ã, :)
-edit: Various typos and Into The Light-
I'm also more interested in what you say and not 'first game to have sex in it' but I think we've compiled a quite large list of games of that type too, yes?
Indeed, and all of these are now added to my already long list of games to play.Ã, :)
QuoteThe Hobbit - first game with graphics (iirc)
Surely that honor belongs to Mystery House?
bards tale anyone? originally on apple 2 if i remember correctly although i got into it on the c64
although ill never forget my early days on pc enjoying every moment of every KQ game. thanks be to AGDI for re-uniting me with the advneture game world.
loom is indeed up there in my list too.
even some early porn in LSL
Quote from: BlueSkirt on Thu 09/11/2006 23:25:21
DOTT improve from MM because every characters were all stuck in a different timeline,
From a technical point of view, MM is way more ingenious because the characters actually need to cooperate simultaneously (e.g. send char one to the basement to turn off the power and another to the attic to do something while the power is off, and remember to have all your chars out of the way while Ed walks thru the house).
Quote
Gobliins 2 also improve because while every of the 7 characters of MM have the same abilities and talents except for 1 talent which happen to be the one you'll finish the game with
You should play MM again because this just isn't true. Each of the six kids you get to select from has one or two unique talents, AND the game has several multiple endings available depending on which kids you pick. You can arrest the meteor, send it back into space, turn it "good" and get it eaten by something hungry. It could stand more dialogue, of course, but some characters do react differently to some parts of the environment.
QuoteGobliins wasn't innovative for having multiple characters on screen, it was innovative because a large section of the puzlles were timed, you did this with one goblin while you did that with the other goblin.
Bah.
Goblins series were special because even if you knew the solution to puzzle, you didn't care much: Doing things in wrong way resulted MUCH more fun! I don't recall seeing this anywhere else, atleast not at that entertaining level.
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 10/11/2006 08:44:44You should play MM again because this just isn't true. Each of the six kids you get to select from has one or two unique talents, AND the game has several multiple endings availableÃ, depending on which kids you pick. You can arrest the meteor, send it back into space, turn it "good" and get it eaten by something hungry. It could stand more dialogue, of course, but some characters do react differently to some parts of the environment.
I already did that long ago when Maniac Mansion Deluxe was released. Tried every ending with every kids in just 2 or 3 days. And down the line, if you exclude the possibilities to fry the hamster (fun but not necessary), repair the phone in the library (not necessary), or that Bernard is scared by the green tentacle, you can do absolutly everything with just one kid up to the point where you need to raid the lab and get rid of the purple tentacle.
It's only at this point that the kids' unique talents are required, to accomplish the several actions that are required to send the cops or Ed in the lab, or give the tentacle a contract. But up to that point, you can easily just pick Dave or anyone else, accomplish every puzzles and collect every objects, and use the other kids just as a third hands to distract Edna and Ed, or push the switch required to open a few doors or empty the pool.
With Gob2, you couldn't pick Winkle, do everything and only use Fingus as third hand for timed puzzles, nor could you pick Fingus and use Winkle as third hand, because they both reacted differently to everything, what you'd fail with Fingus, you'd succeed with Winkle and vice versa, or they'd both fail in a different comical way. I think it's improvement or better designing of the use of X different characters with X different personalities. But then again, I do recognize it's hard to implement such thing when you have to pick 3 out of 7 kids to form a team. There's simply too many possibilities of team combination to give every kids multiple talents and flaws, usable during the entire game, without creating several walking dead. Gob2 would probably have been the same if you had to form a 2 goblins team out of a choice of 6 gobllins. And MM would probably have been like Gob2 if it only involved 3 kids with well defined personalities, abilities and traits.
I have to mention *shudder* Myst. After dodging the first couple of kicks to the crotch region, I have to maintain that it was very innovative as far as puzzles-without-explanation went and free-form exploration (not much guidance from the plot for either). These might not have been seen as innovations, but it was the first adventure/puzzle game wherein once I'd interpreted what I was supposed to do, it no longer seemed random clickery, and after solving some of them made me fool myself into believing I was a genius (at least compared to the pick-up/use-on/combine everything strategy of a lot of other adventures). 7th guest made you think in order to solve many of the puzzles, but it seemed a collection of shareware-style puzzle games strung together with a poorly-conceived plot.
These 'puzzle island' games (even when they're not islands, you get what I mean) are very odd for me, because they give you so little to go on that it's not so much that the puzzles break the suspension of disbelief, it's that there's no disbelief to begin with. Very transparent slideshow-puzzle-slideshow-puzzle for me.
I've got a definite bias due to being enthralled with my first CD-ROM gaming experience, but I found the "story" all the more immersing because of its reliance upon the user's imagination. The drawn-out narration of the Sierra games and the loads of dialog from LA's both wore on me I guess.
Many of the puzzles I hadn't seen before (mathematical variations, sure, but not in a similar presentation), particularly with their effect upon the environment. 7th Guest, by contrast, seemed all the more transparent with its Hexxagon rip-offs with spiders or ghosts or anagram games using Spooky Vocabulary (TM). By the time Riven rolled around, Myst's formula seemed trite to me though.
I'd say Discworld Noir for it's use of the private investigator-notebook-interface. Each clue you was written down in the notebook which in turn could be discussed with any character in the game and be used on any other clue or hotspot in the game to form conclusions.
(Or just to get funny reactions. Using some of the clues on the mirror in Sapphire's room is hilarious.)
I shan't say that it was the first to use this one, but it certainly was incredibly well done.
(http://www.scummbar.com/images/dep/evolveordie/full20040629111319.jpg)
Also, it featured an original and well-done "smell inventory"-system, too, which I'm pretty sure hasn't been used neither before nor after it...
I guess in the same way tape recording of conversations, and of course splicing in Gabriel Knight was innovative. A good combination: both something a character may use as a helper, and important for a puzzle later on.
Quote from: BlueSkirt on Fri 10/11/2006 13:07:59
I already did that long ago when Maniac Mansion Deluxe was released. Tried every ending with every kids in just 2 or 3 days.
Okay, okay, you're right. It would be fun to improve on that idea in some fangame, only it would be an outrageous amount of work.
Rex Nebular for the naughty or nice settings and also for allowing death but not in a punishing way (you see the death and then revive without being insulted and having to reload like in Space Quest). Was much more fun to play than any Space Quest game as a result. Also for allowing your character to change from male->female->male to solve different puzzles was neat, if slightly disturbing. Little Rex, nooo!
Naughty or nice settings? Didn't "Spellcasting 101" feature that too, and wasn't it an earlier game?
Also, ZZT might have been the first game/editor public adventure program... but I could be wrong. Probably am.
I don't think these have been mentioned ( and I think text adventures ought to be allowed):
Starship Titanic: For spookitalk allowing you to hold reasonably complex conversations with characters through the text parser. Also for it's upgrading your interface as you are moved up from 3rd to 1st class.
Syberia: Having a separate inventory for items and documents. This may not have been the first, but I can't think of another.
Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head Nor Tail Of It: For it's use of puns/double meanings/homophones and other wordplay to create a world that could be transformed at the typing of a sentence. For instance, you find a Jack-Of-All-Trades and are able to use it as a car-jack, a jack-knife and many other jacks.
Gabriel Knight I-III: Allowing the player occasionally to speak to more than one character at a time. I'm not sure which of the games used this technique, but I suspect that they all may have. This may seem inconsequential, but it broke from the question-answer model that most dialogues follow. It gave a sense that you were really contributing to a dialogue, not just interrogating someone.
Also Gabriel Knight III for it's overarching what's-been-going-on puzzle...
Spoiler
Wherein you have to work out what all the characters have been up to from the observations you've made throughout the game. What distinguishes this from Cluedo and its ilk is that you don't know beforehand that you are going to need to suss everyone out. It relies on the player paying attention and really thinking about the game world.
Quote from: Helm on Fri 10/11/2006 14:14:39
These 'puzzle island' games (even when they're not islands, you get what I mean) are very odd for me, because they give you so little to go on that it's not so much that the puzzles break the suspension of disbelief, it's that there's no disbelief to begin with. Very transparent slideshow-puzzle-slideshow-puzzle for me.
I have quite the opposite experience with the best of those type of games, like Myst and Riven. I find the opportunity to scrutinise, explore and investigate a rich location extremely involving. Still, different hats for different cats.
Quote from: Ali on Wed 15/11/2006 16:46:40
I have quite the opposite experience with the best of those type of games, like Myst and Riven. I find the opportunity to scrutinise, explore and investigate a rich location extremely involving. Still, different hats for different cats.
I haven't actually played Myst, but Island of Dr. Brain (which I believe Helm referred to) is arguably not an adventure game. I rather liked it anyway, though, but then I play all kinds of puzzles like Supaplex and Chip's.
Re that last GK3 observation by Ali, I think Laura Bow 2 did that. And maybe Laura Bow 1, if I get your meaning. And I'm sure I've played some text adventures that did that, but dunno if they came BEFORE Laura Bow 1...
QuoteI find the opportunity to scrutinise, explore and investigate a rich location extremely involving. Still, different hats for different cats.
That sounds great in theory. In practise, you pull levers and turn dials.
Wasn't talking about Dr. Brain since I haven't played it, Radiant. But I remember that being a collection of puzzle games, right? Myst is a puzzle game disguised as an island.