Hi
Is anyone interested in starting an AGS team with me.
The team will be under my management. You'll be able to vote on what happens, when doing a project. And Everybody will have a say. Plus much more, but I can't think of anything right now.
These are the current jobs avalible:
1. Artist
I'll describe something I want doing, and you'll draw a couple, or more, designs. The team will then vote on which design we use.
2. Musician
I prefer original music, made by you, but I also except someone who can ripp and combine already made music, made by other people. (also team vote)
3. Plot designers
Good story writers. Someone who suggests really good puzzels, which we can use in our projects. Someone who can imagine good, unreal places which the artist will then design. (Team will vote on the best storyline and puzzels)
As team manager I will put all of the project together.
So if your interested email, jamie3000_2004@yahoo.co.uk
Or if any questions, just ask on the forums (reply)
You being rather new, I doubt you've been here long enough to notice the amount of these kinds of posts..
And I'll say it first. The odds of you getting a good artist, musician, AND plot writer all in one team are very very very very very slim. Especially slim when you don't post any of your work, a basic plot, characters, etc. about this so called project.
My suggestion is that you make a game all by yourself.. Nothing fancy, but something to impress the community. If you show you have teh skillz.. Maybe someone would like to help you after that. Don't set your goals too high on your first project. Start small and complete something decent, and work your way up.
I don't think 1 game has been succesfully completed by a team.. I could be wrong.. FOY and Kinky Island are team games, and they seem to be progressing nicely.
But anyways, yea..
Quote from: LGM on Mon 12/04/2004 20:31:36I don't think 1 game has been succesfully completed by a team.. I could be wrong.. FOY and Kinky Island are team games, and they seem to be progressing nicely.
The Tierra games are definitely team projects, and those are quite successful. That being said, there is indeed very little chance of you getting a team together without first having something of a resume (at the very least) and a storyline, plot, etc. My suggestion: Don't just post that you want to form a team. Figure out the full extent of what you'll need, get very far along in production, and then you might have some more luck.
Also, you'll want to try non-AGS type sites to get your team as well. Most folks here are here because they're making their own games. Not many people have time to help out on someone else's.
Ooo!! Shameless plug for a new forum:
http://www.kecek.com/forums/index.php?mforum=GTD&act=idx
There isn't alot there right now, but will be a good place to set up teams in the future.
F*ck sh*t bastard sh*t f*cker motherb*tchf*ckint!!!
I think I said what everyone was thinking...
That's just rude, jack @$$
Quote from: Pirate Jack on Tue 13/04/2004 06:43:43
F*ck sh*t bastard sh*t f*cker motherb*tchf*ckint!!!
I think I said what everyone was thinking...
Whoa, what is that all about???????
Quote from: Pirate Jack on Tue 13/04/2004 06:43:43F*ck sh*t bastard sh*t f*cker motherb*tchf*ckint!!!
I think I said what everyone was thinking...
Wow, I
certainly wasn't thinking anything
remotely like that! Please do NOT presume to think for me. I value my brain cells too highly. :)
Quote from: AGS_guy on Tue 13/04/2004 12:53:50That's just rude, jack @$$
The irony of that comment isn't lost on me. However, I'd like to know, AGS_guy: What experience do you have managing a team? What's your background in game design?
QuoteWhat experience do you have managing a team? What's your background in game design?
He's already told us that he's managed to reproduce about a quarter of Monkey island in AGS, which is no small feat. So at least we DO know that he can program fairly well.
And (this one is dedicated to AGS_guy himself!) - Pirate Jack, aren't you taking this a bit too personally...? ;D ;D
(ignore that lasrt paragraph, I felt this urge to include it but it's really senseless unless you're "in" the joke...)
Quote from: redruM on Tue 13/04/2004 19:34:25
QuoteWhat experience do you have managing a team? What's your background in game design?
He's already told us that he's managed to reproduce about a quarter of Monkey island in AGS, which is no small feat. So at least we DO know that he can program fairly well.
That doesn't answer the question. #1, I asked what experience he has managing a team, not making a game by himself. #2, I asked what his background in game design is, not rescripting an already made game.
I know it doesn't. And I do realize that they're all completely different things. I was just commenting, informing people who didn't know about it that this guy seems to program fairly well. Whether or not he can stick through with projects, or whether he can lead one, that he as to tell us himself - and will, hopefully.
My first finished game will be out next mounth or so. It's about a mad Scientist called 'MOON GOON' who's trying to destroy the planet Vian. MOON GOON, is the leader of the sycthen army and and wants to destroy the planet, because of a trade dipute with the Resian, Vian's inhabbintants.
The game starts with MOON GOON locked away in prison, unfortuneltly he get's out somehow, partly because of you, the main character. You fell guitly and ashamed of your accidental accident, by accidently letting him go, so you try to join the Resian Forces. Of course they don't want you, so try to get back at him, on your own.
There's three parts to this game, and a final stage. I think the game will last at least 2 hours, even for a top adenture player. There will be over 100 rooms!! The puzzels will be a little tricky, but nothing special.
I started making this game 2 years ago, but I got bored so I just dumped it. But when I played it 2 years later, it took me 20 minutes to get to the end, and it was only 70% done, and I knew most of the puzzels myself already
After that I started porting Monkey Island to AGS, but now i'm starting MOON GOON again, partly because nobody liked my monkey island idea.
(This message, has nothing to do with people joining my team. I'm just writing this to inform you that I am dedicated to AGS, and I can complete adventure games. And although I haven't yet, you will soon see that I can).
I am not going to join that team.
I snapped when I read this thread, being another TAEM PROJEKC HALP thread.
So sue me.
Quote from: LGM on Mon 12/04/2004 20:31:36don't think 1 game has been succesfully completed by a team.. I could be wrong.. FOY and Kinky Island are team games, and they seem to be progressing nicely.
But anyways, yea..
There have been a few team games. AGDI makes team games, as has already been mentioned. The Apprentice was a team game. The Adventures of Fatman was a team game (m0ds wrote the music). Anytime someone enlists the help of a musician, they are creating a team game, so when Vel and Petteri get together, their games are team games, too.
I'd like to join your team as your supervisor. Since you're already a manager, I'd like to supervise you and make sure that you don't screw up along the way. Oh, and when the game is finished, I'd like it to say "...by Crichton" in credits. Since you know, supervising a manager is even more important than managing a game, and deserves most credit. I think it's fair. :P
A supervisor, doesn't supervise the manager. If you had sense, you would know this.
Obviously you were either just joking around, or tryng to wind me up. Which in both cases I don't like. Were talking about serious stuff here, stuff which shouldn't be messed around with.
If you think your funny, go to www.madeyoulaugh.com because I don't appreciate your sense of humour here.
I wish people could lurk more before they start posting.
By now, the principles of team requests should be rather clear.
*You start by showing projects you have already done, so that people know what you're capable of.
*Then you give details regarding your upcoming project. Plot outlines, concept art etc
*Then you add your request to the specially designed thread we have on this very forum
That's all you need do
A what the heck.. I haven't got a current project to work on and I'm pretty bored...
i wouldnt mind working as a plot person i like designing puzzles , characters and game ideas :P i just dont have the artistic skill to build a game that looks remotely acceptable.
It really never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of youth. Like, AGS_guy... Ok man, hear me out. This might offend you, but only if you take me the wrong way, I am really not trying to attack you, merely to offer my opinion.
I have two points to make, two long, long winded full of myself points. So buck up. The first is this. I think in the Monkey Island remake thread, it was established you were 14. I believe, and this is just one guy's opinion, a lot of your better artists, coders, and writers are going to be out of their teens. Now, now, hear me out, because I'm sure every 13-15 year old writer or coder or artist on this board is thinking to himself, "What an ass clown. That's not true. I'll show him." But I came to AGS when I was 18, and I know for a fact at 21 now I can write dialog a lot better than then, and 18 is a far throw from 14. Every 14 year old AGSer makes these games with these either A. impossibly dramatic stories or B. "comedies" that aren't funny.
As far as the comedies go, I mean, let's face it, 14 year olds aren't that funny. :) And as for the dramas, truly good drama has subtlety, has nuance. And let's face it, teenagers have no sublety in their lives, and no true loss, no real sense of the scope of the world. And you THINK you do, but trust me, you don't. You THINK working as a bag boy will let you know what a true, full time, 8am to 7pm job is like, but boy-oh, I thought that and WAS I WRONG.
Everything in a young person's life is a crisis. Is unfair. You parents are trying to ruin your life. Your girlfriend is the most heartless woman who has ever lived in the history of time. You will NEVER be respected. NO ONE TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY. The tradegies are endless. But it takes a mature mind to write a truly dramatic, and good, story. And this is true for prose, movies, or any game creation system. I've was big in the ZZT and Megazeux scenes, game creation systems that PALE compared to AGS, with ASCII characters for graphics, and thirteen year olds wrote the most over the top, dramatic games in these GCSes, that they thought were truly Shakespearean in their tragicness.
Now, in case you think I'm trying to make fun of you, or beat up on you, I'll tell you something that's very personal to me. My mom is a schizophrenic. Dude, it was really hard for me to deal with that growing up. But I guarantee you, if I had wrote a movie about that when I was 14, and I wrote a movie about it now, the movie I wrote when I was younger would be more campy, more over the top, it wouldn't touch anyone. It would be drama through the eyes of a 14 year old, which is IMHO exaggerated and, IMHO when viewed from a completely impartial state of mind, almost humorous. I mean, how many times have you seen some made for TV special, where some crazy old lady is crying her eyes out over some thing you have no idea about, and it kind of makes you chuckle? Or if not that, how many terrible movies have you rented from Blockbuster and wondered, "How is the actor keeping a strait face through this, this movie is RETARDED?" That's how these ultra dramatic space odysseys or thrillers of the mind come across in AGS games. They're too campy, they're so serious they become silly.
Ok, I hope my thoughts were legible through all that. My second point is this: hopefully I've established that, the cream of the crop AGS artists are going to be at least in their twenties. Sure there's some 16 year old savant here and there, but for the most part, MrCollasal and Rode and Cornjob all of those amazing artists are older then the youngsters. Phil Reed, funniest AGS game ever under his belt (behind only that one RON game with that evil doctor DVS, I mean), in his 20s. And me, the best AGS script writer of all time, of course. I'm 21. So I've proved my point a thousand fold. Ho ho, anyhow, now, there's this group of 20 somethings sitting around thinking we're so smart and doodling good doodles and talking about politics and Kafka and pretending we read quite a bit of intelligent fiction, and a 14 year old walks up to us and says, hey, you all start working for me.
I mean, just walks up to their table and says who wants to work for me, you guys? You'll do all the work, and I'll take credit because I rounded you all up. Now, mind, they were all already sitting at the same table chatting amonst themselves smugly about how smart they all were in the first place, but you're telling them your sole contribution to their group will be the leader, and that they should elect you leader because you brought them all together. But you walked up to them as a group in the first place.
This would be like, you're at school, on the black top, you and a few of your friends, classmates, you're hanging out. Talking about girls, whatever. And a middle schooler walks up to you, while you're at recess hanging out after lunch with you and 4 or 5 other 14-15 year olds, this 8 year old kid walks up and says, "Hi guys! Let's form a group of friends, and I'll be the leader. You guys can go fetch a ball for us to play with, and some of you others, go grab some snacks and bring them back. I'll stay here and lead you all around."
You're going to look at that 8 year old and wonder to yourself, surely he's not serious. Surely this eight year old kid does not think a entire group of us older kids are going to follow him around and do as he says. And then let him tell all the girls that HE leads this gang.
Now, you might take this the wrong way. If so, I apologize, I'm not trying to make fun of you, or gang up on you. Just give you something to think about.
The end. Goodnight children. Daddy needs vodka.
Well said
Quote from: LilGryphMaster on Thu 15/04/2004 21:31:24
Well said
I disagree. His point was that AGS_guy is young while he and others are older. "So I've proved my point a thousand fold," snorts Davis. "Ho ho." In reality, he proves nothing, only brings forth a few grains of evidence to make his case and assumes total victory. His grossest error is that he appeals to seniority, which is a logical flaw. If AGS_guy truly has the skills to create a masterful game, with all the "mature" nuances Davis mentions, he should be able to do so. However, AGS_guy has yet to demonstrate this, and I feel it's rather safe to conclude AGS_guy is lacking in aforementioned skills.
The real problem, as I see it, is that AGS_guy presumes to seize leadership in an area where he has no prior experience. This problem has already been stated, and I believe it's at the heart of this whole question of AGS_guy's legal claim to team leadership. Leaders typically don't jump to the top without stepping on a few rungs of the proverbial leadership ladder.
I believe what Davis was doing with the whole proving his point a thousand fold is making a joke.
he wasn't saying because he's older he's better [he actually made fun of us older people more than younger people] he was saying that an older person doesn't usually just go off and listen to the first thing a 14 year old says. An older person remembers being 14 and remembers how crazy life is [or how crazy we choose to perceive it to be, as in Davis' post] and thinks "No thank you."
[I should just wait for davis to post, he doesn't need me defending him]
Quote from: Migs on Fri 16/04/2004 00:09:24
His grossest error is that he appeals to seniority, which is a logical flaw. If AGS_guy truly has the skills to create a masterful game, with all the "mature" nuances Davis mentions, he should be able to do so. However, AGS_guy has yet to demonstrate this, and I feel it's rather safe to conclude AGS_guy is lacking in aforementioned skills.
Skills earned with years and years of being able to drink. And I apologize if I came off as sounding that I was trying to propose a class system based on age. It should be based on skill, me, high at the top, and everyone else at the bottom.
QuoteThe real problem, as I see it, is that AGS_guy presumes to seize leadership in an area where he has no prior experience. This problem has already been stated, and I believe it's at the heart of this whole question of AGS_guy's legal claim to team leadership. Leaders typically don't jump to the top without stepping on a few rungs of the proverbial leadership ladder.
I hope you can tell that I was joking in that previous paragraph, btw. I agree with you one hundred percent. Instead of using the word age, perhaps I should have used experience. He doesn't come off as a influential leader, but that's not a character attack, he just seems, "young at heart." I don't pretend to say that at each birthday they hand you a package full of the next year's maturity level, and each 365 days is a guaranteed rise in mental age. God knows some of my very best friends must have missed their, like, last 12 packages if that were the case.
But I do feel, generally, there is this thing called aging, and as you do it, you mellow out and mature a bit. I mean, from what I understand a scientist or two supports this theory.
edit----
Also, I apologize I forgot to quote Eric as being correct, I tried to very much make fun of myself, and many of the senior AGSers, and I in no way think if someone is young they are dumb. I just feel, a young person, 14 or 15, or 16 or 17 or 18, cannot walk into a job in the real world and demand a salary and a company car and a pension and this and that. ESPECIALLY having no background in that field, and no appointment with anyone, simply barging in past the secratary.
Yay for Davis.
I agree totally with what you say.
They don't give out the top jobs to a person with little or no experience in a field, so why should AGS_guy beg for it here. It's like people asking for the source code of ags, believing it's their RIGHT. If I had a dollar for every team recruit thread, i'd be very well off.
All true... yes, very true. *puffs on a pipe*
I think even advertising for a team is essentially the wrong way to go about it. I think a seasoned professional should have made enough contacts to perhaps have people in mind for the jobs he wants in his project and can then ask them personally. I know that's how the best team projects I've done have worked. I've thought, "I need someone to do this... oh, so-and-so does this sort of thing very well! I very much want to work with so-and-so" and then history is made from there.
It's also completely true about experience. I get asked to do commissions of art from various people and I tell you, some people are so ambitious and yet so, so clueless. You can tell the people that have their shit together right from the start, whether they're companies or just individuals - they know what they're doing and you don't have to hold their hand and explain things the whole way through.
Quote from: Davis on Fri 16/04/2004 01:44:01I just feel, a young person, 14 or 15, or 16 or 17 or 18, cannot walk into a job in the real world and demand a salary and a company car and a pension and this and that. ESPECIALLY having no background in that field, and no appointment with anyone, simply barging in past the secratary.
Quite true. Quite true. In our unique culture where "real world" maturity doesn't happen until relatively late, it is, perhaps, wise to adopt a cautionary standpoint when dealing with these juveniles. There have been some instances of adolescents making their mark in the business world, such as founding successful software development companies or telemarketing companies and so on, but such instances are significantly rare. AGS_guy has not yet demonstrated he is such a prodigy child.
Quote from: Kinoko on Fri 16/04/2004 07:15:09
All true... yes, very true. *puffs on a pipe*
I think even advertising for a team is essentially the wrong way to go about it. I think a seasoned professional should have made enough contacts to perhaps have people in mind for the jobs he wants in his project and can then ask them personally. I know that's how the best team projects I've done have worked. I've thought, "I need someone to do this... oh, so-and-so does this sort of thing very well! I very much want to work with so-and-so" and then history is made from there.
Perhaps. Perhaps. However, as far as I know,
none of us are professionals in the game development industry, but your reasoning is fairly sound. It's all about the people you know. I feel AGS_guy may be trying to preempt the natural order.
Quote from: Kinoko on Fri 16/04/2004 07:15:09It's also completely true about experience. I get asked to do commissions of art from various people and I tell you, some peopole are so ambitious and yet so, so clueless. You can tell the people that have their shit together right from the start, whether their companies or just individuals - they know what they're doing and you don't have to hold their hand and explain things the whole way through.
Indeed. Indeed. I, too, have had highly unreasonable employers who didn't have a clue about how complicated my job was. For example, one former boss wanted me to create a complicated database to keep track of some conventions she was organizing, complete with attending retailers, classes being offered, booths being assigned, and more. And then she got upset when I didn't have it finished by the end of the day, and I can't even begin to mention how much important information she left out when we went through the usual question-and-answer phase.
BTW,
I wasn't Joking, I still wouldnt mind being a writer person or whatever it was, just PM me...
Quote from: Farlander on Wed 14/04/2004 10:14:01
I am not going to join that team.
Wow!!!
It looks like farlander and I have the same oppinion this time!
(IMO)
A fist step to a mutual undesrtanding? Probably, why not? :D
I do disagree with one thing Davis said..
I'm a bag boy, yes.. But it is a hard and honest job. Maybe I don't work 5 days a week, but I do work 8 hour shifts.. and usually those last till midnight.
So yea..
Aside from the fact that this is one of the filter questions when you join the forums, I see no problem with AGS_guy posting here.
If someone, having read AGS_guy's post, decides that what they really need is for AGS_guy to organise them and then take credit for their work, who are we to get in the way?
In other words, a simple repeat of the "make a simple game first to attract people" advice, then let the thread die, should be enough.
Quote from: LilGryphMaster on Sat 17/04/2004 18:36:55
I do disagree with one thing Davis said..
I'm a bag boy, yes.. But it is a hard and honest job. Maybe I don't work 5 days a week, but I do work 8 hour shifts.. and usually those last till midnight.
So yea..
I wasn't a bag boy, but a cook, in a super-hot kitchen where I was standing the entire time and I had one 15 minute break. Then I went to work in a more "adult" job, at a factory. At the factory I stood or walked the entire shift, carried between 35-70 pounds consistently, and had one 20 minute break for lunch in my 8 hour shift, also mostly in very high temperatures.
I think what Davis is getting at is that you THINK you have it hard, until you do what your father had to do.. (figuratively speaking, of course)
One thing people don't understand about being a teenager that REALLY is hard though is when you work 20 or more hours a week while attending school. Not only is this like working two jobs, but you catch crap from your parents for having grades that are dropping when you really can't help it. Some people in my school had parents who were making them hand over some of their cash as well as pay for their own car, gas, and insurance.. not really nice.
Christ the lad was only looking for some people to help him out, there's no need to go so in depth about it. As for the age thing, i think it's a little patronising, and you also said he's shown us nothing, yet youre quick to dismiss the idea of working with somebody younger. If i took an interest in his project, and i if i wasnt so busy with my own game, id more than happily help him out.
Come on.....
I am working on my game all the time and yet I still have time to help out with others games.
PS. I got the script writer job.
QuoteChrist the lad was only looking for some people to help him out, there's no need to go so in depth about it.
The sheer amount of threads like this tend to make people VERY wary. I was a victim of this myself, but hey, I look on the bright side - I got a good artist elsewhere!
As for the age thing...
...this is all very controversial, and I'm only 18 myself, but believe me, Davis stated it in the best way possible. People tend to get wary of someone who waltzs right in and asks for a team, out of the blue, especially when that someone is very young. Until people can see his work, it's very likely he'll get no help at all, except from nice, charitable folk like yourself. ;) (don't take offense, k? Just joking around, I do this a lot).
Come on.....
I am working on my game all the time and yet I still have time to help out with others games.
PS. I got the plot designer job.
PPS. I am only twelve
DanClarke: Bravo! Bravo! (claps my hands) Couldn't say it better myself.
You know what, I didn't think of that AGS-guy just gather a team so he does nothing and the others do the job, no sir-ee! I think you all who is against AGS-guy should be ashamed of yourself or Murray will haunt you for the rest of your lives until you burn in Inferno! Ok, I just overreacted but I still think that you could have been a lot less harsch against this guy.
Quotethink it's a little patronising
Don't you actually mean "generalising"?
i understand what you're saying redrum, but im saying it's unfair just to dismiss him, and i dont think age is much of a factor. People talking about things young people's humour, if he's asking for script writers then i'm sure he's open to suggestions on that side of things.
I'm only 19 myself, but i wouldn't expect there to be questioning over my age. I think some people have a problem as far as taking orders from people goes, especially when they're younger than themselves. I dont think of it as working under somebody, more helping them out.
I'd love to help but i really want to concentrate on my game(s) for now, especially as they're my first and i want to make a good impression ;D
You completely right there - age is never a fair base on which to dismiss someone out of hand. Thing is, until the person in question SHOWS that he(she)'s not to be dismissed, everyone will. It's sad, and I don't like it either, but it's a fact of life. That's why these threads are NEVER sucessfull.
Quote from: redruM on Sat 17/04/2004 21:13:10
That's why these threads are NEVER sucessfull.
And the irony is that the n3wb usually doesn't know about it, so it becomes a "enchanted circle", or however you say that in english.
I'm sure everyone is going by past experiences here :)