Hint System

[NickyNyce]

So as I'm game making, I start to wonder if Adventure games should have hint systems for the player?

Obviously hint systems can come in all shapes and sizes. You don't want to make it too easy for the player, but that can be talked about here too. As we all know, any one puzzle that stumps a player CAN lead them to stop playing the game. 

Should players have to go to the internet to find solutions to puzzles? Should more games include some type of in game hint system? Does having a hint system make the player reach for it earlier than their brains should? This one I believe so. Does having a hint system ruin some of the good puzzles and the experience of playing because players cheated too soon?

Maybe if games had hint systems where you only get one, or two hints PER game. This way you can use them anytime during the game, but you only have 1, 2 or 3 each time you started the game from the beginning. Anyway, I would love to hear some thoughts on this matter.

 

[Slasher]

Hi Nicky,

Should players have to go to the internet to find solutions to puzzles? Should more games include some type of in game hint system? Does having a hint system make the player reach for it earlier than their brains should? This one I believe so.

Giving a game option to have help hints as an option would be ideal for those that want or need them, and those that don't can just not select that hint option.

Let's face it: some of the ridiculous puzzles around that I have played needed a hint to stop you pulling your hair out and after finding the solution you know why you never found it (Use banana skin on the telephone and must be wearing tartan trousers )

[CaptainD]

I like in-game hint systems if they get the balance right - which is difficult to do, as I'm finidng with the hint system I've created for Troll Song.  I tend to favour the UHS style of subtle hints eventually leading to complete solution.  As Slasher says, if people don't need / want hints, they don't have to use them.  Though his illustration of wearing tartan trousers whilst using a banana skin on a telephone is not a good one.  I mean, seriously... which one of us can honestly say we haven't done that in real life?

[NickyNyce]

But there are negatives to it too. It will ruin some AHA moments of good puzzles, because players quit too early trying to figure them out. This takes some of the great adventure game moments out of the experience because players cheated or used some subtle hints. I do think there are arguments to both sides. I do believe that players will cheat sooner then they should because that hint button is flashing in front of them.

[Slasher]

Easy, if you can't solve the puzzle after zillions of hours.. Alt-X

[Stupot]

I'm not a big fan of overt hint systems.  I try to avoid walkthroughs whenever possible, but at least walkthroughs are more effort to access than built in hint systems.  As you said, in-game hints systems are just too tempting to click on.  I'd much rather that the designer predict potential sticking points and put the necessary clues in the actual game world accordingly. Nothing should be unsolvable without looking carefully at your surroundings or asking NPCs.

If I'm stuck I'd much rather be able to find the appropriate clue by exploring the scene a bit more. Isn't that the whole point of a game based on investigation and exploration? Make your hint "system" part of the exploration process.

I don't like the 3 hint only rule either, if only because it's a lot of work on your part that any given player is only going to see a fraction of.

I never feel more depressed playing a game than when I click a hint button only to be given a clue that I should have fucking worked out myself.

[NickyNyce]

I never feel more depressed playing a game than when I click a hint button only to be given a clue that I should have fucking worked out myself.

Well said Stupot. I too think this does have an impact on the experience, and that a hint system can have a negative effect too. If you make the game correctly, the game itself is the hint system. Maybe hint systems were created because devs didn't make the game right in the first place?

Easy, if you can't solve the puzzle after zillions of hours.. Alt-X

But we also don't want a player to quit our game either. Having a hint button does at least keep the player moving forward without breaking the immersion by stopping and searching the internet.

[Wyz]

I always think hint systems break immersion and even though I like to check a walk-through now and then I would not like an in-game hint system; leaving the game altogether to get help (like alt-tabbing out of it) pulls me out of the experience a lot less. That said it does not mean that a game should be hintless: there are clever ways to add hints to games without breaking immersion. You could have a companion character for instance with whom you can have conversations about puzzles or general in-game events:
"What do you think about person X saying Y?"
-"I don't know, I get the feeling X is not telling the truth, maybe you should confront him with some piece of evidence."

This could be entirely context sensitive: as you progress the things you could talk about with your companion could change. You can also force the player to put in a bit more effort to get a hint.

Another way is to decrease the change the player overlooks essential parts like areas or pickups. I don't mean those sparkles you see in some casual game these days pointing out "hey pick me up!"; they are as comfortable as someone watching you pee if you ask me.
No you could have characters talk about certain items, or have them in really obvious places:
Let's say a puzzle requires a metal container to boil liquids in: a player might think about a pan and looks for one in the kitchen.

Sometimes finding a item is part of the puzzle, then it doesn't really work. General does and don'ts apply: limit the number of pickups, cut down on backtracking, make items more conspicuously, etc. You'll need to test this a get the balance right.

Another way to have hints is have a fail safe: when players try a puzzle over and over but fail to see one part of the puzzle maybe hand it to them. Have a character help out like thinking out loud:
"Hmmmm, I've tried this metal rod over and over but it keeps slipping, maybe I should bend it slightly..."

Well that's just my two cents but I really like to be tricked into thinking I did it all by myself of else I'll just use a walk-through.

[elentgirl]

I'm in agreement with Wyz about hints being part of the game if possible.  When confronted in a game with something I have no idea what to do with, it can very helpful to have the main character think "out loud" about what he/she might do with it.  Other than that I prefer a subtle in-game hint system to a walkthough.  The big problem I find with walkthoughs is finding the clue I need to "un-stick" me without getting too much other information.  Most walkthoguhs are far from subtle, presenting a list of "do this - pull that" etc.

In my own game I included as many hints as I felt desirable, and then added a few more in areas that caused problems for other players.  My character's thoughts are visible at the bottom of the screen thoughout the game.  I also made a user guide that players can download separately of they wish.  This is not a walkthrough but a description of the game with hints, plus solutions later in the guide in big red "SPOILER" boxes.  I hope that this allows players to get the maximum satisfaction out of playing the game.

[snoopy]

There's still one problem of 3 hints only what would stop someone from saving the game check the hint and then just restore to keep the hints ?

[Stupot]

Good point Snoopy.
Perhaps you could force the game to automatically save over the last save game immediately after displaying the hint.
Either way, I don't like the idea anyway.

[Mandle]

I'm not a big fan of overt hint systems.  I try to avoid walkthroughs whenever possible, but at least walkthroughs are more effort to access than built in hint systems.  As you said, in-game hints systems are just too tempting to click on.  I'd much rather that the designer predict potential sticking points and put the necessary clues in the actual game world accordingly. Nothing should be unsolvable without looking carefully at your surroundings or asking NPCs.

If I'm stuck I'd much rather be able to find the appropriate clue by exploring the scene a bit more. Isn't that the whole point of a game based on investigation and exploration? Make your hint "system" part of the exploration process.

I don't like the 3 hint only rule either, if only because it's a lot of work on your part that any given player is only going to see a fraction of.

I never feel more depressed playing a game than when I click a hint button only to be given a clue that I should have fucking worked out myself.

ALL of this!

One really well-done example I can think of off the top of my head is:

(I'm sure most people here have played Day Of The Tentacle but I'll hide it anyway:)

Spoiler

Washing the horse-buggy (in the past timeline) to make it rain would have been ridiculously obscure if not for the fact that when Bernard looks at the dirty car (in the present timeline) he says something like: "Some people believe that washing one's vehicle will cause it to rain."

The "hint" is disguised well enough in that it's given in a seperate timeline from the buggy puzzle by a different character and it doesn't stick out as an obvious hint...It could just be one of Bernard's nerdy comments.

But it is enough of a "hint" in that it is given to you in the same location (in a seperate timeline) as the buggy puzzle and the dirty car/horse-buggy and kind of across-time counterparts, so it should eventually stick in the player's mind enough to provide that "AH-HA!" moment we all love when we have solved a puzzle on our own, without the "AWWW MAN" moment when we feel the solution was fed to us.

[close]

[AnasAbdin]

I think in-game hints generally ruin the whole gaming experience and immersion. I'm even against labeling hotspots in some games. I tend to blend objects and hotspots with the backgrounds for even making things harder.
At some points I even mislead the players a little to make sure they know what type of game they are dealing with here.

Spoiler

In one of my released games, there is a bottle standing behind a laser shield where it is too risky to pick up. If the player tries to pick it up the main character refuses saying it is too dangerous, but if the player insists by trying a couple of more times, the character goes for it and picks it up.

[close]

I think having a hint system underestimates players' minds and even could be regarded as if the developer is not skilled enough to write good puzzles. One can encourage players to pay more effort solving puzzles by rewards such as good art, animations, revealing secrets in the story...etc.

[NickyNyce]

Interesting AnasAbdin, that brings me to another question. Should we provide an option to turn HOTSPOT GUI's on and off at the start of a game?

While playing your game, I've come to realize that I do like games that DON'T have hotspot GUI's. If done correctly, and there isn't too many things to look at on screen, not having a HOTSPOT GUI does make the game feel more challenging and real. I think HOTSPOT GUI's 'can' make games too easy. Having an option to turn the GUI on and off seems rather easy to do and gives the player more liberty to choose how they wish to play the game.

At the moment it seems that players don't want a hint system, and would rather see the devs keep those hints embedded in the game and found through natural exploration. Let's face it, that hint button does make players tend to press it before they should when playing Adventure games.   

[CaptainD]

I think you're missing something about the hint system though.  Not that I disagree with anyone's comments here particularly, but it seems (to me) that you're looking at the situation largely from the point of view of people who are already adventure game fans.  To open up the appeal of your game beyond the hardcore adventure gamers and possibly reach more casual gamers (which to me makes perfect sense if you want to try to make a game commercially successful), a hint mode could be a good way of maintaining a reasonable difficulty level for veteran adventurers without making it innaccessible to newbies.  I'm certainly not saying that all adventure games should necessesarily have a hint system, either overt or subtle, just that it's a consideration and there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with having that hint button.  (I do agree that it breaks immersion though, but it's still a trade-off that could work.)  Building in a lot of hints can work fine of course, but you're almost bound to reach a level where players who are very good at adventure games will complain that it's too easy if you make it very accessible to genre rookies.

Character talking to themselves might work, although in TellTale's Sam & Max games, it really didn't work very well at all.  One of the best hint systems I've seen is the one in Runaway 3, where you phone a character who has previously appeared in the game, for technical support.  It still breaks immersion a little, but in a fun way.

All that said, a lot depends on the individual game.  With Troll Song I built in a hint system early on and it seems fine (no duobt some people won't like it of course!) but with Captain Disaster in Death Has a Million Stomping Boots, I've considered having a hint system, but decided against it... it just felt wrong for that game. 

[NickyNyce]

I also want everyone to know, that if you do have a hint system, I'm not saying that you didn't create your game correctly. Obviously there are reasons for adding a hint system, one of them is to help players, like CaptainD said 'that are new to the genre or like to have an in game help system and other reasons that may work great'. I was guessing that maybe hint systems were created because people were having a tough time beating adventure games back in the day, so someone decided to bring a walkthrough to the game itself? Maybe people weren't used to thinking outside the box when it came to adventure game puzzles, and this was a way for the devs to make sure people completed their games?

You can say that every game is different, and that this decision is a valid thought for every game. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

[Billbis]

I am personally one of the lazy gamers. If stuck more than 5 minutes (literally), I give up. Either I fill the envy to search the internet for the answer, or never play the game again.
So I'm all in favor for hint system (I even code this for my puzzle-less AGS games  ).
I play adventure game for the story, the atmosphere, the humor, etc. I have no more time and envy to search for too long the solution for a puzzle.
But I guess it depends what public you target, and above all what kind of game you want to make.

[Ghost]

Some games are just harder to beat than others. I see nothing bad about a hint system, at the very least it shows that the author put some thought into his design and wanted to personally give aid. I have a soft spot for the "soft hint" system made famous by Infocom.

Q: How do I get the can of tuna?

Hint 1: It's awfully high up on that shelf, right? Hard to miss, actually.
Hint 2: Incidentally, you did read the title of the game, didn't you?
Hint 3: Surely there's something to make yourself a little bigger, Alice?
Hint 4: That's right, just eat the cake. Nice to see you remember your source material!

The question actually informs you that a situation IS a puzzle, so that is a nice soft hint. Then you get some vague nudges and finally a complete solution. And to top it, the authors would occasionally throw in a fake Q/A and even reference THAT in the game.

A hint system could well make its own game when done right