On remakes.

[Calin Leafshade]

fan fiction are usually stories written within a universe.. which I find less odd since you can create an entire narrative and use new characters. All the extended universe star wars stuff is essentially 'fan fiction'

thats slightly different to rewriting a story.

[Babar]

(Completely separate from the rest of this topic), but people DO rewrite a story as well, and it could very well be used as a parallel to game-making:

You've got a book written 400 years ago, and you really enjoy it, but you acknowledge that it is probably difficult for people to get into. So you rewrite it in modern language, so that more people would have access to it, and enjoy it the same way you enjoyed it.

You've got a game made 20 years ago, and you really enjoy it, but you acknowledge that it is probably difficult for people to get into. So you remake it with modern graphics, and maybe an improved interface, so that more people would have access to it, and enjoy it the same way you enjoyed it.

[Igor Hardy]

You've got a book written 400 years ago, and you really enjoy it, but you acknowledge that it is probably difficult for people to get into. So you rewrite it in modern language, so that more people would have access to it, and enjoy it the same way you enjoyed it.

You've got a game made 20 years ago, and you really enjoy it, but you acknowledge that it is probably difficult for people to get into. So you remake it with modern graphics, and maybe an improved interface, so that more people would have access to it, and enjoy it the same way you enjoyed it.

That's cheating.

Also, the value of the original gets diluted.

[Babar]

I don't cheat, Ascovel.

Enjoy

Seriously though, yes, perhaps it does dilute the original meaning. There is always a trade-off. Sometimes it is worth it.

[Scarab]

Think of it in terms of a book. Someone has written a story but you feel it doesnt fit in with modern sensibilities or it was poorly written. Do you rewrite the story? the same narrative just with different language? No ofcourse not, that would be absurd.

Well this would be an example of a crappy remake.
I think a better example is reading a book and enjoying the concept behind it, but saying to yourself "I think I could tell that story better" and releasing, say, a graphic novel.

Yes, it's the same storyline, but it's a completely different take on it. Things like this happens all the time in the film industry, with the release of director's cuts and the like.

This is my point. Why is it PREFERABLE to make a remake. You arent being mandated by anyone to do so. You arent going to sell it and capitalise on its IP. So why not just make a high quality original game (almost all the remakes are of a very high quality)? If you cant handle writing your own story, form a team with someone who can.

No money is changing hands, but seeing as you're an independent game maker your self, I'm sure you can understand that the thought of people playing and enjoying your game is more than enough of a pull for many, and now the player's perspective comes into play, because this means you are almost guarantee some kind of audience from the get go. In this sense, would'nt you agree, that the maker is capitalising on the IP?

... the value of the original gets diluted.

This is also a good point, however, whenever you bring anything into the mainstream market, much of what made it popular amongst its cult following is lost.
This is just one of the unfortunate things about it, but you have to remember that the original was not accessible or relatable by the mainstream anyway, so at least this could now be experienced by them in some form.

[TerranRich]

Would re-imaginings fall into this category as well? For example, was Sci-Fi Channel's "Tin Man" mini-series pointless, because it was essentially a re-writing of The Wizard of Oz?

No. A remake is no less creative than an original game. It's not just that the plot and puzzles are already designed for you. Many of the Sierra remakes actually have brand new puzzles mixed in, and even fixed the walking deads (this is especially true of the KQ1 and KQ2 remakes by AGDI). You're basically taking a great game, and making it even better.

I don't see why a developer wouldn't want to take on that sort of challenge. It doesn't mean they're lacking in any creativity, nor are they unable to come up with anything themselves.

And like it has been said before, it's mainly about nostalgia. The developers love an old classic, so they revamp it into something even better.

Another final reason why developers make games is to please and entertain fans. If fans are entertained by remakes, why not make them?

[m0ds]

By The Sword has been remade about 70 times. Only thing is, time #1 never was released.

What d'you think of that, eh?

[TerranRich]

By The Sword has been remade about 70 times. Only thing is, time #1 never was released.

What d'you think of that, eh?

I'm still waiting for Kinky Island and FoY, douchebag.

[monkey0506]

It's fairly clear i wasnt going to let this lie without some kind of answer.

Why do you say that...?

I'm going to regret this post...but ah well.

: I had no idea you would have anything to say in response...

I feel its more about advancing someones creativity rather than gaming as a whole.

Does it inhibit someone's creativity when they create what they consider to be an "improved" version of, for example, the sprites? Does it hold them back just because instead of writing a "new" piece of music, they are updating, for example, from MIDI music to a full musical score? Does it make someone a less skillful programmer because they have managed to emulate the style of another game within a different engine or language? I appreciate what you're saying (so don't get me wrong) but in all fairness it must also be taken into account that even doing a remake can provide numerous opportunity for the creative juices to flow and abilities to expand.

Think of it in terms of a book. Someone has written a story but you feel it doesnt fit in with modern sensibilities or it was poorly written. Do you rewrite the story? the same narrative just with different language? No ofcourse not, that would be absurd.

Why would it be absurd? If I honestly think that I could improve upon the story, or that I could bring a unique idea, aspect, twist, or otherwise to the story, why not rewrite it my own way? I could give it some of my own personal flavor. One of my favorite authors is Michael Crichton (most notably author of Jurassic Park), and he did exactly this. And no one called it absurd. What am I on about? The Thirteenth Warrior (a.k.a. Eaters of the Dead in book form). Yeah, that movie with Antonio Banderas. It wasn't exactly a flop. And it was based on Beowulf. Crichton had a friend (colleague, associate, something like that) who told him that nobody likes the story of Beowulf. So Crichton took it upon himself as a challenge to rewrite the story to be more engaging, more appealing to a more modern audience. And the book was successful enough it got a major motion picture developed with a few very notable actors.

I would hardly call it absurd to say that just because it's not an original concept means I can't bring something unique to it. John Gardner also wrote a book titled Grendel which told the tale from the monster's point of view. And that is one of my favorite books I've ever read.

So why, from a personal perspective, remake a game?

For the reasons I've said here as well as in my last post. Perhaps someone isn't the best artist, or the best musician, or the best scripter, or the best storyline or dialogue author, or whatever other positions may need to be filled...writing a remake means that you have a definite base to work from. You're not starting from scratch and trying to make sure that every point of the story flows smoothly, trying to determine where puzzles should go, what types of things your character might say, it's not left up to you to define the character's personality. However, maybe you are a world-class artist, and think you could improve upon the graphic style of one of your favorite games. Why then should it be frowned upon just because you  wanted to use your talent as a homage to this game?

I understand commercial remakes like tomb raider anniversary. they brought a classic game up to modern standards and improved its flaws. But that was to make money and i'm sure if you asked the developers if they'd rather make a NEW tomb raider or remake an old one they would rather make a new one.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. Both remakes and new productions have pros and cons. For example if you're making a new game you run the risk of introducing plot holes, misinterpreting existing character roles, redefining personalities and character traits, etc. which may cause fans to be dissatisfied with your product. Conversely however, a remake has all these points firmly established, though you may still run the risk of unagreeable graphics format, atmospheric changes (particularly in the music and/or if adding/replacing voice acting), etc.

I appreciate that people enjoy remakes. I enjoyed anniversary despite knowing what happens for the most part but i wouldve prefered a NEW one.

This is my point. Why is it PREFERABLE to make a remake. You arent being mandated by anyone to do so. You arent going to sell it and capitalise on its IP. So why not just make a high quality original game (almost all the remakes are of a very high quality)? If you cant handle writing your own story, form a team with someone who can.

Its the developers perspective that i dont understand. not the players.

It can actually be exciting from a developer's perspective to face the challenge, particularly when working with an older game, of emulating certain aspects of a game. For example in the Monkey Island series, there's the running joke about Stan's jacket which has a plaid pattern which defies the laws of physics and reality and the pattern remains completely static as the jacket moves throughout space; as if the pattern were stitched into the fabric of space-time itself instead of the jacket. In the days of 2D graphics this was as simple as drawing straight lines on each frame of the character sprite. However in the world of 3D graphics the same concept provides much more of a challenge.

Now that was just recreating one specific aspect of the series in a new game, but the same idea applies to the entire concept of a remake. Challenges such as these are exactly the type of things that a developer has to face in creating a remake that could actually make it more appealing than just creating a new game entirely from scratch.

It's not always preferable to everyone to do a remake, and it's absurd to do a remake just for the sake of doing a remake. For me the enjoyment of working on a remake would come from the challenges and opportunities it presents. For example The Secret of Monkey Island: Special Edition has beautiful graphics (except Guybrush's hair! ...and some of the close-ups), faithfully renewed musical score, voice acting, etc. all of which made it (to me at least) a very worthwhile purchase. Not to mention they built it right on top of the old game and there's the ability to switch at any time between the two. Working on such an endeavor would to me (noting of course I really only do programming not any art or music) be extremely worthwhile.

I've actually taken a few days in authoring this post so as to try and provide an intelligent and well thought-out response to your concerns. If in any way I have fallen short of that goal it's just coz it's me writing it. I fully understand and appreciate your point of view and your concerns, but hopefully now you can understand and appreciate equally the other side of the argument.

[Igor Hardy]

I don't cheat, Ascovel.

Enjoy

Seriously though, yes, perhaps it does dilute the original meaning. There is always a trade-off. Sometimes it is worth it.

I agree that sometimes it is worth it (and your example is very good). Actually, very often doing a remake is more worthwhile than doing nothing at all (if there exists a state of doing absolutely nothing). However, if you are able to come with decent original ideas then spending your time realizing them is always preferable than reusing old ones, even though the latter might bring a greater popularity.

[mkennedy]

If you do a remake of a game, then you should most likely remove any dead ends that the original has.

[Dualnames]

If you do a remake of a game, then you should most likely remove any dead ends that the original has.

Is this a pinch line for me?