Primarily, or Secondarily

Started by Atelier, Wed 25/08/2010 17:53:39

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Atelier

At the moment my IF features everything in second person, so you are in the thick of it all. But then I had an idea.

Not many IFs (that I know of) feature everything in first person. That is,

I choose the cheese.
I chew the cheese.
I threw the cheese.

Except this "I" would be the character in the game, who you are controlling.

Rather than just for "I don't want to do that" gags, it could be formal, where the character is giving you feedback on the world as he sees it, and you are just the interpreter. Ex:

> look
I see a great stone gatehouse centred with a portcullis - it's open, to let through the morning traffic. A dark, hooded gatemaster watches me like a hawk from the shadows. I can just make out a stream to the East of here.


Perhaps sometimes he could break out of character (to give hints/handy advice):

Use your loaf, sunshine. I'm not going down there without a light source. It's waaay to dark!

Has been done many, many times before, I know.
But what do you think about it in this context, and would it appeal to you personally?

Alun

#1
First-person in text adventures is much less common than second person, but it's certainly an accepted technique.  Even as old and primitive a text-adventure creation system as AGT included an optional library to make first-person games.  More modern and sophisticated systems like Inform, TADS, and Hugo let you switch all the library text to first person with a simple toggle or compiler directive.

Still, while the first person has long been a recognized option in text adventure creation, it's an option that has been relatively little used.  There are some text adventures that "feature everything in first person" the way you describe, but you're right that there aren't many.  Few enough, in fact, that while I know I've seen text adventures in the first person, and probably even played a few, I can't even name any off the top of my head.  No doubt one big reason for their rarity is simply convention; text adventures have traditionally been in the second person, so that's how text adventures are written because that's how they are.  But for that very reason, use of the first person could make a game stand out.  Whether it stands out in a good way or a bad way... well, depends on the game, and whether that really fits for the particular game in question.

If I understand you correctly, though, you're wanting to use the first person to explicitly separate the character from the controller.  That's something I'm pretty sure I haven't seen done before (doesn't mean it hasn't been done, just that I haven't seen it).  Could be a good twist, if it's done well.

[See post below for reason for edit...]

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Calin Leafshade

#2
Actually I think third-person is quite rare.. although I'm not a IF aficionado.

1st person is "I have sex with the broom handle"
2nd person is "you have great sex with the broom handle!"
3rd person would be "Johnny has great sex with the broom handle")

I think 1st person breaks the 4th wall a little since the character is talking to you i guess.
2nd person implies that *you* are the person in the story, therefore increasing the immersion (supposedly)
3rd person would just be a little strange i think.. very detached from the action.

Atelier

#3
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Wed 25/08/2010 18:56:13
I have sex with the broom handle
you have great sex with the broom handle!
Johnny has great sex with the broom handle

Dear, dear me. Somebody is quite clearly sexually frustrated :=

Alun, I agree about the twist. A nice relationship could be built up between the player and the 'narrator'.
Almost as if you wouldn't want anything bad to happen to them.

Edit:

Quote from: Alun on Wed 25/08/2010 18:51:07
If I understand you correctly, though, you're wanting to use the first person to explicitly separate the character from the controller.

And yes, precisely that.

Alun

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Wed 25/08/2010 18:56:13
Actually I think third-person is quite rare.. although I'm not a IF aficionado.

Whoops, yes, that was a typo on my part.  When I said third person I meant second person.

You're quite right; third person is extremely rare in text adventures.  I think I've heard of one or two text adventures that were in the third person, but I'm not sure, and in any case even if it has been used before it's less common than even first person.

(Now to edit my initial post to correct that typo...)

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http://www.soupcomic.com
Gods, heroes, monsters, and soup


Ultra Magnus

Quote from: Alun on Wed 25/08/2010 18:51:07
use of the first person could make a game stand out.  Whether it stands out in a good way or a bad way... well, depends on the game, and whether that really fits for the particular game in question.

If I understand you correctly, though, you're wanting to use the first person to explicitly separate the character from the controller.  That's something I'm pretty sure I haven't seen done before (doesn't mean it hasn't been done, just that I haven't seen it).  Could be a good twist, if it's done well.

Do you have any clue how frustrating it is to come up with what you think is a cool, fresh idea and to spend ages working on it only to have someone else think of the same thing and beat you to announcing it? It's happened a few times to me with other people's wip threads, usually with at least one reply that says "that's a cool idea, I've never seen that done before". At best it means the "fresh" idea is a little less fresh, and at worst it looks like I stole the idea from them.

AG, I don't mean to discourage you from using the idea. I certainly think it's a good idea with a lot of potential...
But I'm currently working on a first-person text adventure, in case you haven't twigged that, and it's just a bit annoying is all.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.

I'm tired of pretending I'm not bitchin', a total frickin' rock star from Mars.

Atelier

Gah. Naturally I had no idea ::) But thankfully it hasn't even passed the idea stage, and it certainly hasn't reached the point-of-no-return. Bear in mind though, it's another character narrating what they see, and telling the player (I don't know whether this is the same as yours).

It's also frustrating for me because on one hand, it's a great idea I'd really like to do; but on the other, now I know of your project it's put me off, as pressing ahead would seem spiteful. Well, it's awkward.

Ultra Magnus

Sorry, I didn't mean to put you off the idea. Feel free to go ahead with it. The truth is that it's really only one aspect, and there will no doubt be countless other differences in our games to ensure that they don't really end up too similar.

Besides, dozens of people have made what are on the surface very similar games to each other without any kind of conflict, it's just that we've stumbled upon a small twist to the IF mechanic that's just rare enough to stand out. And as has been said a few times already, there have been first-person text adventures before and there will in all likelihood be more to come, it's just bad timing for us to think of it at the same time.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.

I'm tired of pretending I'm not bitchin', a total frickin' rock star from Mars.

tzachs

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Wed 25/08/2010 18:56:13
1st person is "I have sex with the broom handle"
2nd person is "you have great sex with the broom handle!"
3rd person would be "Johnny has great sex with the broom handle")
That broom handle is a slut  ;D

On-topic, I like the idea, and you can even take it further. What if the narrator is actually a group of people, each one with a different personality and somehow connected to the story?
Ok ok, just a thought, don't shoot me...

Creed Malay

#9
 I was working on a game ages ago where the player character was pretty disturbed. She described things around her in first person - "That's the house I grew up in" etc, but would speak to the player in the "sierra boxes" sometimes while describing things "But you wouldn't care about that, would you?" and things. The idea was that slowly through the game, as the characters actions got more questionable and extreme - it was a real world setting and a revenge quest - the player would slowly realise that they were playing the role of the characters madness/dark side/voice-in-the-head type-thing. The girl would eventually "confront" the player, holding them accountable for all the bad things, saying she wouldn't have doen them on her own. It was them who made her do all these things after all...
I hoped it'd be pretty effective, but I never finished the game.
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