The point here is to present the best compromise between speed and quality, for those who're too scared of (or can't afford) 3D programs and/or Photoshop.
- Google Sketchup for the super quick and user-friendly modelling
- Kerkythea (http://www.alexschreyer.net/cad/rendering-sketchup-models-with-kerkythea/) for the photo-realistic rendering (fully integrated to SketchUp)
- CubicPanoOut.rb (http://www.smustard.com/script/CubicPanoOut) for the panorama generation (also easily integrated into SketchUp
BOOM! There you go, a fully-featured production pipeline to start creating loads of cool panoramas for the Panorama3D module/plugin. All of it very fast and very easily.
You say this from experience? Have you done this?
Got some output you can show? I'm curious about how viable a production pipeline this is! :D
EDIT: I thought you were speaking of game backgrounds in general. Oh well.
I actually is very fast
I think what most people hinders from making 3d panorama games is the problem of making good looking characters (or making characters at all) and the restrictions that come with the panorama plugin.
My production pipeline is similar, but im not using kerkythea but vue and manually doing the camera postions for the panorama.
Here's a simple example.
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6384/bgfull.th.png) (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/bgfull.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
As I demonstrated before, you can also use that for doing general BGs
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8505/gondor2vue2.jpg) (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/gondor2vue2.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: Babar on Tue 15/03/2011 11:47:43
I thought you were speaking of game backgrounds in general. Oh well.
I was! If you disregard the "Panorama3D" bit, it's still good to know that you can combine Sketchup with powerful renderers. I haven't tested it, though, I just thought it'd be interesting for the community. But it shouldn't be too difficult, as so many renderers flourish, and they all have this is common : they try to be simple to use.
Hey thanks for the info, I've been looking for a renderer for Sketchup for I while now. I'm also going to try the panorama generator. :D
Great idea for SketchUp users. :)
Like I've said before, rendering for the Panorama Module - regardless of package - is fairly simple once you remember to:
Set your camera's Focal Length to 45* and its Aperture Width to 90*, giving you an overall Field of View of 90*. Then just render your images in a 1:1 ratio (320x320, 640x640, etc).
You sir, are awesome. These are some excellent resources. Thanks for posting them. :=
Hmm, the pano plugin doesn't seem to be working in my SU8, apparently it was made for 6, that might be the problem.
But just out fo curiosity, what does it actually do that you can combine it with Kerkythea?
And wow mode, that looks real slick.
And thanks for the tip, Limping.
Still there's a bit of a problem with integrating sprites so they fit in nicely with SU renders and I know a lot of people use Poser stuff, but honestly, those sprites usually make me sick and I am yet to see one that doesn't look like was made in Poser. I'd think more people would use the body as guide to draw over it or something instead of using them in raw.
Quote from: anian on Wed 16/03/2011 00:14:30
those Poser sprites usually make me sick and I am yet to see one that doesn't look like was made in Poser. I'd think more people would use the body as guide to draw over it or something instead of using them in raw.
+1
Or, to be fair, I'm pretty sure there must be ways
with Poser to make characters look less artificial and more original. I suspect the lack of knowledge regarding
materials has a lot to do with it (the characters look like plastic toys). Also, the systematic choice of
stereotypical bodies is a disaster (girls with big boobs, guys with muscles, etc.)
Quote from: anian on Wed 16/03/2011 00:14:30
the pano plugin doesn't seem to be working in my SU8, apparently it was made for 6
Well as I said I haven't tested -- but I was more excited by the renderers. I had no idea there were renderers for Sketchup, I thought I'd share the joy.
Well I've been looking at some stills made in Poser, sort of pin ups and even on their website etc., and although it does look better, it still is evident it's from Poser. The problem is due to rendering and the fact that most people don't try to get to know the software before doing anything, and as you said, stereotypical bodies don't help the cause. Basically, from the official gallery, there are only stills there and it seems like most time is spent on trying to hide the fact that it was made in Poser. ;D
There is a software named Makehuman, where you can set up and get a naked human model as 3d, it kind of saves the trouble of making it from scratch in say 3dsmax, so you just put bones and then animate, but I haven't tried doing anything with it and the pipeline was a bit messy.
Oh, and yes there's also a free renderer Indigo (which is similar to Ker, and intergrated into SU so it's simple to use) and IDX (this one is actually not fully free, but the free version is maxed at 640x480 resolution, otherwise it's a full program, it has a different UI but I guess it might be easier if starting out).
EDIT: I just checked, Indigo is not free anymore, you can use it with resolution limit and a watermark, bloody hell
Quote from: mode7 on Tue 15/03/2011 13:06:22
My production pipeline is similar, butI'm not using kerkythea but vue
Your backgrounds look really cool. How do you reach that level of realism with those basic meshes and textures? Is it all the renderer's work? Or do you use some specific shader? Or you spend a lot of time on lighting? etc.?
WOW :o mode7, that looks great ;D
Quote from: Ouxxey_games on Wed 16/03/2011 12:24:17
Quote from: mode7 on Tue 15/03/2011 13:06:22
My production pipeline is similar, butI'm not using kerkythea but vue
Your backgrounds look really cool. How do you reach that level of realism with those basic meshes and textures? Is it all the renderer's work? Or do you use some specific shader? Or you spend a lot of time on lighting? etc.?
Well you need a little patience to fiddle around with vues render setting. Basically these pictures are rendered with full radiosity with a 0.5 negative light gain and a brownish light color. On top of that I add a blue skydome light with a high gain which makes the shadows look more realistic in the street scene. Render times suck though cause these are kind of overkill settings.
About the poser characters: There are some customizations to prevent making chars look like poser: Use the faceroom, use custom clothes, don't use the poser render.
Leads to some neat results but also means fighting a lot of exporters and having to deal with incompatibilites and bugs. Its not really fun.
Poser is a minefield. Thread carefully. And realistic lighting and skin is your best friend.
Totally agree, there are so much things that can go wrong. To be honest it gives me nightmares - even when you get some nice results you always have the feeling you barely made it.
Anyway this really extends poser capabilities cause its easy to make clothes:
http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/
well its overpriced and seems unfinished but still a cool approach. I'd succeed in doing dynamic clothes - try to do conforming - if you dare.
mode7 did you pay for vue? I see they have a free version, but you need to pay for the import modules etc.
The biggest problem with the "pioneer" version. Is, that it adds a logo to all renders. You at least need the render up package which is 69$
Well I'm sure there are ways to get a similar quality with freeware tools
This is with intergrated VRay plugin (as you can see it's WiP, mainly because I'm trying to coordinate colors so the whole scene is not so yellowish), 2-3 items are from Google warehouse, which really sometimes helps a lot
(http://i.imgur.com/kHmV7.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/wQcgQ.jpg)
p.s. inspired by a scene from here http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=42708.0
Awesome stuff anian! I like it a lot. Hopefully people will use this more in future.
I think EVERYONE will be able to do good looking BGs in sketchup using the available ressources!
I really mean everyone, maybe not as good looking as these, but at least a lot better than you could do with paint!!
Thanks mode.
So here are a couple of tuts with combination of Kerkythea and Sketchup, from materials, lights and so on LINK (http://www.sketchupartists.org/tutorials/sketchup-and-kerkythea).
There's a link there (or find it on the net) for 2 pdf files - GoogleSketchUp FastStart4Architects and Kerkythea Material Editor Guide by mr. Yeganegi, both good for understanding rendering, even if you don't end up using Kerkythea, most renderers work on some basic principles and have some basic options (like camera settings, HDR options, bump maps etc.) so you'll probably use the info elsewhere.
I've been playing around with this and I must say I'm impressed. Not that I can produce anything near to mode7's and anian's renders because those are simply breath taking. :D
The main issue I keep running into is textures, so here are a few questions in general.
Where to you guys find good textures, or perhaps do you make them yourself, or a combination of both?
Even if I had smashing textures to work with, I can not seem to get everything aligned properly. Do you have tips on how to align textures properly in google sketchup so they get exported properly also? Or do you use different programs to work on the texture placement?
I also tried to texture a terrain I've made with photo match, took 15 minutes of processing but when rendering in Kerkythea the texture coords appeared to be all messed up. But maybe that's just not really a good idea. ;D
I'm also going to have a look at the tutorials anian linked, thanks. :)
Okay, really long post here, sorry about that. :)
Don't know what exactly was wrong with your textures, to be honest I haven't used Kerkythea in a couple of months so it's getting a bit rusty. Here's a Getting started guide: LINK (http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=42&func=fileinfo&id=89)
First of all Sketchup is best and made for - making buildings and other architectual models easily and fast (not only modeling but also texturing is basic and easy). It also has a set of tools for matching photos and drawing models from them and for making models for Google Earth and similar. Everything else is added and thus requires some more work.
For AGS integration, the best things you can take from Sketchup (even without any renderer, just a screenshot) - correct perspective, you can make basic shapes you need and see how they look in perspective, also see where the shadows need to be.
Textures, when you texture a surface (flat) right click on a surface it'll offer you an option Texture. When you play with that, you can also right click again and if you check/uncheck the Fixed pins options, you'll get more options. Try it out. Sketchup does a lot of work by setting up UV maps for you, so basic usage is really easy.
Textures sources, from dedicated sites LINK (http://cg.tutsplus.com/articles/where-to-get-your-textures-19-free-photo-source-sites-for-cg-artists) to just Googleing for what you need and then modifing it. In Vray and Kerkythea, they offer materials on their site as well (be carefull with VRay ones though, they're not always useable). By materials, I mean they usually even have some added settings to make them better not only a image texture.
On my sand floor in the image above, it's all one picture, I changed the camera to top view and parallel projection and then mixed differnent textures in Photoshop with an darken layer over them, so I can see where all the buildings are, but I believe this is more advanced than what is usually required.
And yes, you'll probably need to make some materials you'll need, but thanks to the internet, it's easy to find some stuff you can modify.
How big of a terrain are we talking about?
You can make a terrain and have a few basic tools for changing it - in both menu Draw and Tools you have and option called Sandbox. Also check the tuts on tools like Smoove and Drape and Stamp. For a basic terrain it'll be enough, you can also smooth the surfaces later.
For applying textures on curvy surfaces there's the texture projection method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHsRRLCAOm8
To make a realistic terrain in Sketchup is a tad hard or maybe not so hard as much as you have to decide what you wanna do. SU is more architect oriented, you can even make terrain out of map contours.
There's a difference in say a background terrain or something to put the models on and where you want something to take action. Also plants (trees and grass) detailing makes a difference. Vue and similar programs have some tools that populate a terrain with models, you use it like a brush basically or can just put it all over the terrrain. They're also optimized to work with so much models in scene and with big terrains. With Vue, Sketchup is actually only used as a fast model and texture maker that you inport into Vue for everything else. Mode will probably know more about that.
In almost all 3d programs (if you're not going for like AAA material, but then you basically use complex software that actually simulates movement and particles) you basically try to disquise the lack of details not only cause of the time limits but also in say a game engine, it's just too demanding on the machine to render it all so it's playable in realtime. Even in most advance games today (except maybe Crysis or something) you'll notice that grass or open terrains have a texture on them and then randomly there are models of plants or not even models but 2d sprites.
In Kerykthea, there are some models and tuts on their site that show how to make grass, most are with bump/displacement maps, that is, you make the renderer draw the grass for you. It's a long process on any renderer though what you actually have to draw is not so much.
In Sketchup, you can mask the lack of terrain later in Photoshop for example by drawing in. If we're talking about simple stuff as surrounding a house or similar like
LINK1 (http://www.vray.com/vray_for_sketchup/gallery/images/architecture/architectural_exteriors/vray_for_sketchup_gallery_architectural_exterior_1.jpg) - this is more than doable and even better results can be achieved
LINK2 (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=35934&sid=b1f388a14b312fb90b2b01297224df18) - integrating a 3d model into an existing site is a perfect job for sketchup, or to make a model from a photo it's even better, it can put the textures directly from a photo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSuDoX8SPtU
Yes very nice, thanks, that helped me greatly! :D
Oh and for textures: http://www.cgtextures.com/ you have to register and theres a daily download limit but apart from that its free and texts are nice
Here are some freeware texture tools:
http://www.bricksntiles.com/ - For walls and stuff
http://www.mapzoneeditor.com - Very powerful but also very...confusing
The first answer to this thread was Babar asking me if I tested Kerkythea...
Well now I have! :-)
Only an uber-simple unfinished model with no textures and no colors but white, and yet, the magic of ray-tracing makes it look good instantly!
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8040/test2zhh.jpg)
===
EDIT:
It takes really 5 minutes :
- go to the Kerkythea website and download:
1. the plugin for Sketchup
2. the Kerkythea software itself
- put the plugin in the Plugin folder of sketchup (see the instructions in the readme)
- open Sketchup and use the new Kerkythea toolbar to export your model
- the first time it will ask you where is Kerkythea and it will open it with your export
BOOM, click on Render and there you go. Then File--> Save Image
Thanks very much for the Kerkythea recommendation Monsieur!
btw Does anyone know if the free version of Sketchup comes with some limited use license? It's a really powerful tool to be be given out for free (and I don't even see any ads).
Quote from: Ascovel on Sat 21/01/2012 15:44:58
btw Does anyone know if the free version of Sketchup comes with some limited use license? It's a really powerful tool to be be given out for free (and I don't even see any ads).
Thing is you're limited to formats you can save in (or rather export), that's about the only limitation, but if you have Kerkythea, you basically avoid it and even without it you can save as jpg or such.
Here's a comparison http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/product/whygopro.html
Sketchup doesn't have a nice render engine in it (it's just what you see plus you can download extra "styles" (you can find free ones on the net) that change the image a bit, but I still haven't found a good use for them - that's why they can't really hold you down like other softwares where they limit the rendered image size and use a water mark etc.
I also think there's some limit with making models for Google Earth, though I'm not sure, I haven't used that part of Sketchup that much.
Also SketchUp really quickly comes to a point where you really need some plugins for it, sites like Sketchunication offer a lot of free ones on their forums.
Kerkythea is cool and may be the only free renderer left for SketchUp, but it's controls are kind of clunky and not really similar to other programs or in fact SketchUp for example.