For those of us lacking the pure determination and self-discipline - and stubborness - to insist on finishing each game completely on our own: What do you all think of progressive hints, in the style of UHS hints and Infocom's Invisiclues? How much do you prefer them to walkthroughs, if at all?
The proprietary nature of existing systems makes it rather difficult for such hints to be provided for freeware adventure games. Of course, a workaround can always be done through hyperlinks, but this tends to be rather inconvenient and messy.
So, I've been working on a solution: collapsible outlines, implemented in a single HTML page through Javascript's Document Object Model. It's based on Boutell.com's script (http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/creating/outline.html). The idea is that a) no one would need to download a program specifically for these hints; b) it would - hopefully - work across platforms (naturally, though, this list is limited to machines that can run adventure games); and c) it avoids in-game hints that promote over-reliance.
(Unordered List) Imagine showing and hiding each list of questions under a section with a single click.
(Ordered List) Clicking on the question would reveal the first hint, clicking on one hint would yield the next, etc.
You could even navigate with the keyboard if you so desire. Here's a demo (http://flip.unglue.co.cc/demo.html), tested in IE6 and Opera9 (no keyboard functionality, thankfully this shouldn't be necessary since a vast majority of adventures are point-and-click).
What I'd like to know is, would there be any interest in writing/using hints of this method, instead of walkthroughs or forum hints?
One more thing: I'm no coder. I only know enough to modify some of it, given lots of time, heavy reference and many headaches. Much improvement could probably be made on my edits. Perhaps I could finish tweaking the script to my satisfaction in the next few days, perhaps not ever - now that's a depressing thought. Hence, if Javascript happens to be your cup of coffee, help would be much appreciated. Please. Or if you like, you're more than welcome to tackle these problems yourself.
i) How to show the hints one by one.
Line 112: kid.style.display = "block";
For a start, I can't for the life of me figure out why replacing "kid" with "kids[0]" doesn't show the first hint to that question.
ii) How to make hypertext links within the outline open (not just jump to) the relevant list item.
Shouldn't start on this until I understand how to fix the above. |
As far as I can see this isn't a repetition of an old issue, though I apologise if it is! I'm new to this community, though not to amateur adventures in general.
The problem with UHS styled systems, for me, is that I get stuck at the lava bridge so I go to UHS, click on chapter 1 of my game and it gives me 5 options: Opening the first door, Getting past the lava bridge, Building a rocket ship, Opening the gateway to hell.
Great now I've accidentally read the 2 hints past where I am and know that I have to build a rocket ship and open a gateway. Even worse is when they're written like questions because you have to read the whole thing in order to see if it pertains to your problem. You want to know how to get past the lava bridge so you look at the questions and 3 start with "How do I" so you read farther on the top most one and it say "How do I get rid of the ancient curse" and crap! Ancient curse is spoiled for me!
I would like to see a hint system with a text input. You tell a database Location: Underground, Last Inventory Item Picked Up: Crystal Shield, Hint Need? How do I get past the lava bridge?
and it tells you a hint...
But anyway, if we already have UHS and users can update that themselves, what specifically does your system provide that normal HTML doesn't?
edit: Ok I just took a closer look at UHS and it seems random people on the internet can't just add new hints and they're still selling a UHS reader, I wonder how many people buy them... So your system would be free and open, that's one reason to use it over UHS.
Quote from: MrColossal on Sun 20/04/2008 16:30:08
I would like to see a hint system with a text input. You tell a database Location: Underground, Last Inventory Item Picked Up: Crystal Shield, Hint Need? How do I get past the lava bridge?
Maybe an existing text parser could be used as a starting point for something like that?
Whatever it is, I would say that the sensible thing to do would be to first make a backend for this system, that could then be used for various purposes, such as generating html, plaintext, some sort of keyboard-navigatable terminal application or whatever fits you. Texinfo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texinfo) for game hints, like. I'd imagine this is in the long term a more rewarding way than to hack it up in Javascript first and then find out you've made too small a cage for yourself.
MrColossal:
The philosophy of UHS and similar systems is to provide hints with minimal spoilers. The problem you've mentioned is not inherent in the system, but rooted in careless writing. It can be avoided by making the top level questions more general. For instance, "building a rocket ship" could be under a question relating to a more long-term goal that should not surprise the player, assuming the player explores all available areas adequately before resorting to hints to solve a puzzle. Ideally, questions should be grouped according to their simultaneous availability at any given time. This may be an oversimplification, especially for games that are decidedly non-linear, but I believe it is possible to reach a satisfactory minimum of spoilers given careful attention to detail. At the least, this type of hints is an improvement over walkthroughs. Nothing's perfect after all, though we may still strive to inch closer. :)
The text input you've mentioned sounds like a good idea. It's probably possible to implement a similar feature in the outline, though something exactly like yours sounds much too tricky, involving a lot of work on the author's part as well. The best method I can think of right now involves only the goal, not other factors such as "last inventory item picked up". It may be quite basic, but it ought to do the job. There could be a search field on the page that would return the first of the highest level questions - alone, without listing its siblings - relating to the keywords, which in your example would be "lava bridge". Then if it looks right, players could click on it to reveal the first hint. This way, you wouldn't see the rocket ship. If there was another question like "how do I get back across the lava bridge", it would be hidden until the player asks to see the next result, as it would otherwise be a potential spoiler. Too bad this function is beyond my current capability, we'd have to see about the two main problems first. OpenUHS (I don't know about the regular one, but the online viewer sure doesn't) has something like this, but unfortunately it retrieves too many results (it includes questions which have hints containing the keywords), increasing the risk of spoilers.
Actually, there is an open source UHS reader, but we are still not free to compile UHS files as we like.
EldKatt:
You may be right, manipulating the JavaScript is proving to be a much more difficult task than I'd initially expected it to be. But in this case the problem probably lies with me and not the framework, I imagine an experienced JavaScript coder should have no problems as the language does seem flexible enough. Admittedly, my choice of JavaScript is just me taking the easy way out since I've no clue how to make a backend.