Racism in AGS games

[police brutality]

Hello,

I was wondering what was the limit for racist material in AGS games (If there is a limit). For example, if the dialog constantly includes derogatory remarks about other people's religions, there's plenty of nazi imagery and other racist material, and perhaps a photo of a pile of naked corpses in a concentrain camp, or a scene with a bunch of 8 year olds strangled with barbed wire in the middle of the snow, will this game be allowed on the AGS games database?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Theoretically, each and any and every game made with AGS can be put on the database. It's the author who decides whether to put it there, and NO AGS game at all is in any way representative of anyone else in the community except of the people who have made it. There's the violence, sex and profanity meters for the warnings that may be given, but ultimately anything and everything can be put in the game. If the game does something in appallingly bad taste, it's not an AGS issue, it's the developer's issue.

[ildu]

Why would you want to put all that stuff? Nazis at least didn't parade around photos of dead people. I see no purpose for such imagery, unless you're game takes place in a Holocaust museum.

[ManicMatt]

As Rui said, but as for how much you could offend me, for example, it depends on the context.

Frank the Farmhand had racist people, but the hero wasn't and was friends with the guy that was under attack by racists. The maker warned the player of the racist tones in the game.

If your game was sending messages across that it's okay to be racist and kill children I'd be somewhat disturbed and complain about it.

[Ishmael]

I would probably put anything in a game I make should the story or some other part of it require so to make the game work, and I don't think I'd be that easily offended either... Well, maybe by putting down blind people or by anything done in poor taste, but if decently executed I guess I can take anything. Saying something - like racism - is ok and encouraging it is surely done in poor taste.

[Nostradamus]

I'd say don't put any more racism in a game then would be considered legitimiate\tolerable in real life. IE holocaust style scenes and calls to exterminate races\peoples are not cool. Racist jokes  can be OK as long sa they're not too extreme, ie like what comedians tell in real life.
Racism in a game where your goal is to stop it\work against itprove it wrong etc - ok as long as it's not too extreme. Racism for the sake of racism, hate and violence - wrong.

[police brutality]

Alright. Thanks for the information, I now know where to draw the line.

Why would you want to put all that stuff? Nazis at least didn't parade around photos of dead people. I see no purpose for such imagery, unless you're game takes place in a Holocaust museum.

The game would take place in a German base and the characters would be it's crew, and there would be plenty of journals/diaries/reports to read to develop the plot. Hence all the racist text and maybe imagery.

[m0ds]

Just remember; will it damage your reputation or will it compliment it? Mindless racism and horrific imagery may make people question the author. Senseless content is dangerous, but thought provoking content has proven to be popular in the past.

Let's say you decided to include a picture of the prophet Mohammed, sure - some of us may not mind it but if a religious Muslim were to play your game, how do you know you're not going to spark the same kind of trouble as those newspapers that produced a cartoon of him? Like film, I'd always think about the current stability of the world, popular beleif and thinking and take into consideration who your audience may be. And in this day and age, with internet distribution, it could be just about anyone.

Still, if you say you know where the line stands and how not to cross it, that's good. Personally I wouldn't want to see any of the graphic images you mentioned, but that's just me. I wouldn't want to touch a game like that but that's simply because I prefer fun storylines rather than harrowing ones, but each to their own

Good luck!

[thewalrus]

     Okay, I guess the opinion of a jew might come in handy in this type of discusion, I guess I will ring in. Now, I am very far from religious, but on the other hand, I am still of jewish descent. I don't think I would not like to see senseless violence towards my people, we have had enough hate tossed our way for no reason (especialy considering Jesus himself was a jew). But I think it would depend on what you were trying to get at in your game. Are you advicating the holocust? Do you think it was right? This has to be considered a very touchy subject. Although I still believe that you have the right to put what ever you want in your game.... I would just hope that it was done in somewhat good taste......

[lemmy101]

IMO it's all about freedom of expression. Do what you like. It may offend some, it may not offend others. Nothing wrong with having disturbing imagery or taboo subjects if there's a valid point to be made, but try to handle them with respect. Also, I see no problem with having a racist character in an AGS game. Cartman on South Park is racist as hell, but it's justified by other's repulsion to his attitude and views.

[Sam.]

Bye bye sense of humour.

[m0ds]

There is a line and you crossed it. Keep that kind of 'humour' to IRC.

[Sam.]

Since my original post is too taboo for this sensitive audience, ill post  my actual opinion.

Put racism in your game, feel free, but if it is meant with actual racist intent then you should keep your game to yourself, and possibly take a look at your ethical values. However if the racism is meant in a satirical (Id say see above, but Oops its been edited out) or observatory fashion then Id say it is acceptable.

[scotch]

I wouldn't be surprised if CJ removed links to a game promoting racial violence from the games page, either for ethical reasons, or because it's illegal in many countries (including ours in some circumstances). On the other hand he might decide to keep it, and allow whatever people want to add. The thing about neo-nazis, white power groups or religious fundementalists is that to a normal person their beliefs are so abberant now that they only make fools of themselves when they release things into the public.

If you are a thinking, intelligent person, that wants to make a game about racism, sex, or anything else that some may find offensive there's no need to self censor yourself, just consider something easier if you aren't sure you're up to discussing it in a worthwhile way.

[LimpingFish]

I wouldn't tackle issues such as those raised in this thread unless I was damn sure there was a valid point I was trying to make.

Unless the "game" in question is about the horrors of genocide, or man's inhumanity towards his fellow man, and that examples of such were vital to the integrity of the authors vision, then at least there would be a valid reason.

But featuring such material as simply window-dressing to enhance the plot of an otherwise unrelated story, I would suggest otherwise.

This isn't a question of freedom of expression, or free speech, but rather one of exploitation. It's a fine line between the two, with a bottomless drop on either side.

I also don't think "testing the waters" to see what is acceptable to be hosted is a very healthy attitude either.

[Pumaman]

If the game contained any material that is considered illegal in the UK or Germany, it would not be permitted on the games database. I believe that anything that is construed to "incite racial hatred" (whatever that means) is illegal; but basically, if your game depicts Nazism (like for example the Indiana Jones games) in a thoughtful and genuine way there shouldn't be a problem.

[police brutality]

Thanks for the replies.

Considering the last 4 replies, now that the first part of my game is complete, I'm sure it doesn't inspire racial hatred. However, the objective of the game is not to talk about Nazism or racism.

The only purpouse of those 2 things, is to "ambient" the game in the historical period in which it takes place.

Maybe even to put the character in a position is which his ideology is challenged at certain point and he discovers he's a hypocrite.

So as many have said it would be a bad idea to parade racial violence just as decoration. So I'll keep the racism as part of a few flashbacks and reading material trough the game.

Also,  I'll be posting soon in "Games in Production" so you can check if that the swastika is not overused.

EDIT

I've made the post, http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=29675.0