'Publishers' for Amateur Adventures; an idea.

Meowster · Sun 25/04/2004 21:37:35

I was organising the development schedule of Luna yesterday and, as I was arranging milestones, something struck me.

Who the hell cares?

I mean, I could set a milestone, and tell myself that I'm going to stick by it and that the team is going to stick by it. But really, what incentive is there to stick to it? The reason milestones work in the game industry is because the developer has to show the publisher that yes, they're working on the game and yes, everything is going to schedule. But unless you have a team of extremely dedicated people with a lot of time on their hands, that's not going to work in the amateur game industry, where we have nobody to look up to and fear.

Which is where I got an idea. I grabbed a pen and paper. Then, I went to get something to eat. Then I left the pen and paper and started typing instead.

What if Amateur Adventure Developers could get publishers? It could give Amateur Developers a whole new incentive. It would help publicize amateur games, and-- okay, who are the publishers?

Let's take, for example, Penny Arcade. A famous gaming and comic website. Now, let's take the FoY development team for example. Screen 7 ask Penny Arcade to publicize their game. Now, for PA to agree to this, they're going to want to see that a) the game is going to be good b) their audiences are going to like it and c) they're not going to be advertising a title that's going to go dead after a few weeks of empty promises. If artists or something are needed for the project, PA can advertise for them. If Mark wants fully animated cutscenes, PA can advertise for animators to volunteer for the project. PA basically supports the project (obviously I don't mean FUNDS the project). In exchange, Mark must make sure the FoY team stick to the set milestones and that the game is released on schedule, and also FoY is 'published' by PA, in that PA get to claim a certain amount of credit by sticking their logo somewhere in the game.

Okay, so, long and complicated description there. But basically, Amateur Publishing could benefit both sides of the agreement (admittedly, mostly the developer).

It could benefit the developer by;

It could benefit the publisher by;

It was just a wild, and probably stupid idea I had, that I'm going to regret telling you about later.

But, it's worth thinking about. Especially for people like the FoY team, or the Rise of the Hidden Sun team, who are aiming for more professional-looking finished games.

Comments?

Moox · Sun 25/04/2004 21:59:27

good idea

TheDude · Sun 25/04/2004 22:36:42

I don't see an incentive for large sites like PA to do this. Sure they could get some publicity from a logo or whatever, but large sites like them don't really need it, they get enough hits already.
I think this idea would benefit the developers a LOT more than the publishers in it's current state.

Maybe if it was aimed at sites like adventuregamers.com and mixnmojo or whoever, it might just work...

Meowster · Sun 25/04/2004 22:48:24

I e-mailed PA asking what their opinion on this would be. I will probably get a reply filled with hatred and abuse, but you never know.

Sure, it may not benefit them as much as the developers. But it doesn't cost them either. In the long run, they're going to be seen as 'supporters of the arts', maybe.

And it could also work with sites like Mixnmojo, as you said, probably moreso even than PA.

MrColossal · Sun 25/04/2004 23:10:52

I don't quite know what you're talking about... I wouldn't call a website that allows advertisements for an AGS game a publisher, I'd call them a.. Publisist or something. If the website actively tried to get people to be excited about the game by posting about it, getting articles written about it, emailing people/taking emails from people, hosting the download, providing a website for the game... Then I might be inclined to say they're "publishing" it while the game makers are producing it.

Why can't we just check the official FOY site for news or the FOY dev thread on AGSforums? If Mark needs animators he can search them out and not rely on some random website to find it for them through a passive "ad"?

I understand what you mean that it can often feel like "who cares if i even finish this game." but if you can't get over that hump a "publisher" won't help much. They'll just stop "publishing" your game and you'll quit making it.

Evil · Mon 26/04/2004 04:04:38

Its a great idea, but like Eric said, what do they get? Thats the only flaw I see in the system and that maybe some noobies might atempt this.

Lunchtime O'Booze · Mon 26/04/2004 05:35:16

Yeah,
I don't see what difference there would be between this and posting on Games in Production.

In the games industry, the motivations to meet milestones are
1. monetary - bonuses, or keeping a job
2. personal satisfaction
3. expectation of the audience
generally in that order.
I can't speak for all amateurs, but for me it's the same - personal satisfaction comes way above audience expectation.

Basically I guess what I'm saying is why do you feel the need to add that stress and pressure to your life? If you don't want to do it, don't - or change it somehow so you do want to do it again.

On the other hand, if you're sure you do want to do it and you want the publicity that PA or whatever can bring, go for it!

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Mon 26/04/2004 06:25:08

IMHO, good "amateur" games don't really need publicity. Professional always do, because there are expenses to cover, but amateur games are made with love and no price tag attached. And any game, professional OR amateur, gets around, if it's good enough. I don't know how heavily Tierra (AGDI) advertised their remakes, but they're the best known amateur adventures in the last couple of YEARS.

If the game is good, word gets around, no worries about that.

Gravity · Mon 26/04/2004 08:09:16

I think amature developers, well some, may ned major publishing if they intend to a) go commercial and b) want to try and reach out past the amature or adventure game scene to other gamers. But a lot of good games, big commercial and amture ones, may not get known no matter how good they are. I think in the bottom line if you have a game that is not getting the recognition your think it deserves then yea, try and find someone to help publishize it. On the other hand if you game is known and such don't bother with it. As soon as you make one good game that a lot of people like then any game you make after that becomes easier to get known and played. Of course it you make bad games and keep making them that base will fall, I think. In the end it is up to personal taste and well...everyone is different.

jetxl · Mon 26/04/2004 11:50:47

Quote from: Ami on Sun 25/04/2004 21:37:35
Let's take, for example, Penny Arcade. A famous gaming and comic website. Now, let's take the FoY development team for example. Screen 7 ask Penny Arcade to publicize their game. Now, for PA to agree to this, they're going to want to see that a) the game is going to be good b) their audiences are going to like it and c) they're not going to be advertising a title that's going to go dead after a few weeks of empty promises. If artists or something are needed for the project, PA can advertise for them. If Mark wants fully animated cutscenes, PA can advertise for animators to volunteer for the project. PA basically supports the project (obviously I don't mean FUNDS the project). In exchange, Mark must make sure the FoY team stick to the set milestones and that the game is released on schedule, and also FoY is 'published' by PA, in that PA get to claim a certain amount of credit by sticking their logo somewhere in the game.

There is already someone with the rights to make Dr. Jones games. LA (a.k.a. Lazy Assholes) will notice it more and more if the game becomes more mainstream. I'm afraid what will happen to m0ds when they send in the sharks with frikk'n laserbeams attached to there heads. The prorgammer of LA might like it but the legal department is a completely different department. They pray on cases like this. Easy money. I think the more underground it is, the better.

But yes, if you put alot of time and energy in your "long length" game and it looks like a pro then it should be played by as much people as possible. Not just adventures, but any great freeware underground game. Pakoon! anyone?

Davis · Mon 26/04/2004 17:55:31

Quote from: Ami on Sun 25/04/2004 21:37:35It could benefit the developer by;

1. Giving the Project Leader and the Team an incentive to work consistently.
2. Helping to find animators/programmers/other resources.
3. Helping to release the game to a wider audience
4. Promoting adventure games, and amateur adventure games.

It could benefit the publisher by;

1. Making them known as a site that's 'supporting the arts'
2. Being able to stick their logo in the games, and getting their name known as publishers of certain games.
3. Probably other stuff I haven't thought of?

I think your lists alone show that it benefits the game developer quite a bit and Penny Arcade not at all. PA doesn't need their logo in a game that no one would have seen had they not already advertised it in the first place. I mean, they're getting paid to produce a Splinter Cell: Pandora's Tomorrow comic, and then a few kids say hey totally bust your ass to promote our game and you can put your logo on it! I mean, the independant adventure game developer just doesn't bring anything to the table to bargain with.

KANDYMAN-IAC · Tue 27/04/2004 12:57:22

I think its a friggin fantastic idea... you just need to attack someone who would be more mutually benificial!

So one of a similar style, who can gain interest for themselves...

I wanna do it... and i wanna do it now...

Who should i approach LJE2 with?

jetlag · Tue 27/04/2004 14:05:02

Marilyn Manson?

Layabout · Tue 27/04/2004 17:46:36

Why not just market it yourself?

This is how the blair witch project got it's fame.

Hype Hype and more Hype.

Hollister Man · Wed 28/04/2004 04:34:50

As a developer, I can understand the situation. I think if you want a "publisher," go for it. There are lots of record studios that started with an artist who said, "to hell with what the studios want, I'll show them!" Make a killer mini-game, and ask for a buck Paypal, or something, to help fund your lonely quest to make a great game. I'd pay you, if I thought it was good enough, and I am sure there's more people who would.

With projects like FoY, its just a hobby. They don't WANT to make it commercial, cause then it'd be a job and not fun anymore.

If you want someone to produce your game so you can advertize it, there's always Cafe Press, but YMMV.

Sslaxx · Wed 28/04/2004 14:34:07

Perhaps not what's meant, but anyway... http://www.superiorinteractive.com/ is a very small UK games company (but an old one - having been around since the 1980s), looking for people's games to publish.

'Publishers' for Amateur Adventures; an idea.

Lunchtime O'Booze

jetlag