AGS team contest?

[scotch]

I don't see how it's completely unlike OROW, if you do both with a team, Andail... The main difference is the time frame. Are you saying you don't learn anything about teamwork and game develpment in a week? I think you learn at least as much in a week of OROW than in a week of ATC... with the exception of long term project management and team politics I suppose.

I brought up OROW because it is similar in a few respects, not at all the same, but it could appeal to some people that want to try ATC, if no ATC happens. As far as I can see the ATCs were not a great use of time for most former participants. Do I have the wrong impression? There were so many people moaning the other times...

Because it seems likely that people will try it again, I'll suggest some stuff I think would help, based on my experiences and all the people seen bitching about their teams on IRC:

Preferably do not have a required dedicated game designer role. If this role exists, ensure that the designer is told they're designing a game for the team, not for themselves. Working on something you aren't interested in isn't fun. If possible, get the team to agree to agree on a basic concept before the competition begins.

Less fixed team sizes and roles in general would help. When you're forced into grouping 5 people it's unlikely all of them are very enthusiastic, and yet you still end up giving them work and relying on them, because they have a job title.

Stee's suggestion about more mini deadlines is probably good. Keeping a lot of the development in public, seeing others work, should hopefully be a motivator. Perhaps encourage teams to keep a development blog?

Any people from the previous competitions have more suggestions? I think with some new rules it could work... maybe.

[Ishmael]

There were so many people moaning the other times...

I believe those with complaints come forward with their thoughts much more often than those with something good to say...

[InCreator]

Working on something you aren't interested in isn't fun. If possible, get the team to agree to agree on a basic concept before the competition begins.

Word!

As far as I can see the ATCs were not a great use of time for most former participants. Do I have the wrong impression?

Do you? Do I?
Really, what's the big deal? We start a thread, make some heavy noise and who really want, sign up. If nobody signs up, hell, delete thread and forget. All we need is a bit of time from someone who's volunteering to host the whole thing.

The noise should be loud enough because all the competitions are in miserable state right now. Miserable as no participating, and in some cases, even the host has abandoned his compo (tune contest? Photoshop friday? huh?)... Noise like in '04 was, with an outside-linktext over the forums (do I remember right?).
Or really, maybe wait a bit for better time. It's not like it costs anything or someone who don't have will or time, should still sign up. I understand people who doesn't want to be part of it, but really don't understand how one can be SO against it. Why?

What are you winning by not doing anything?

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Well, as I said before, why do you need a competition to motivate you to do something you want to do?  You don't need an ATC to form a group and make a game, nor do you need to wait for someone to step forward and offer to host it.  If enough people want to do the ATC it will happen I'm sure, but the concept definitely needs some work if the result is going to yield more than one completed game.  Things to avoid are:

1.  People who pretend to be really interested in the idea and suddenly decide they aren't, leaving you hanging.

2.  People who aren't really qualified for the role they occupy on the team but don't want to give it up.

3.  A design that is much too ambitious for the talents of the group and the time constraints.

4.  Missing important deadlines in the design.  Once you start on this path it just keeps happening and you end up with an unfinished game and a lot of disappointment.


Things that should be changed are:

1.  The rules should be less about flash and more about substance.  Team names/logos it's crap, really.  The point is to make a complete game as a team so focus on the game.

2.  Just as team members are made public, so should be the names of those who flake out on you.  There are circumstances where a team member leaving or not doing their job is understandable (family emergency, health problems) but the vast majority of what goes on is underestimating the challenge and overestimating interest.  Let other members see who is and is not reliable so they can avoid some of the trouble you ran into. 

3.  Have an optional checkpoint at each week of development where progress is shown.  This lets you see where the teams compare in graphics, sound, scripting and story development and gives you some idea of where you need to improve if you're way behind.  Some groups may want to surprise everyone so I think optional here is fine.


It's fine to work with people you've always wanted to work with, but bear in mind that they have their own way of doing things (or not doing things) and you may discover that it doesn't mesh well with yours.  It's better if your team is a group of people you know well enough or have worked with in the past, that way there are no surprises.  Since this is a free competition with no physical reward, motivation is 100% internal and some people don't maintain high motivation levels past the initial 'wouldn't it be neat' stage.  My advice is if you are looking for a team look to the ones that have games out there, something large enough to show they can complete what they start.  If you haven't completed a game yet then you should ask yourself what you think you can bring to a team, since they will have nothing to measure your qualities by.  For those of you who have nothing to prove your talents with you might make a short game that focuses and illustrates your talents as a 'selling point' of sorts.  Anyone can look at your game afterward and say 'yeah, he/she might be good in this role' instead of just guessing whether or not you can do what you say. 

Finally, don't go into any group competition half-assed.  If you're going to do it make the time to do it right and do your part.  Letting down other people by your laziness leaves a lasting negative impression.

[Steel Drummer]

I've been secretly hoping this might get resurrected.  Consider me very interested (despite our team's spectacular failure last round  ).  Is this the wrong topic to mention the OROW too?  It always had lots of entries and good quality too, would be a shame not to see it again.  Another one seemed about to go ahead but finding a good time and host didn't happen.

I vaguely remember that.. I was about to make a game with a team and everything, but no one stepped up and hosted OROW.
But yeah, a new AGS team challenge would be great; however, I suggest we revamp the rules.